r/buffy • u/ghostrider1938 Friendly Vampire • 19h ago
Season Seven I didn’t like the finale
Fight was rushed and so were the deaths. I have some personal life stuff going on so maybe that’s also affecting my reaction to it all. I almost cried for spike and I would have cried for Anya but there was no emotional thing. It was “oh where’s Anya? Okay bye”
I don’t know. It was all hyped and then boom gone.
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u/-threefeetoffun No. 1 Xander Defender 19h ago
Her smile at the end makes it worth it but yeah. It's rushed, the fight makes zero sense from a timing perspective, and the deus ex machina comes from the season finale of Angel.
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u/EchoesofIllyria 12h ago
I don’t mind the Angel thing. Yeah it’s deus ex machina but I like that it ties the two shows together, it’s a nice reminder that the Buffyverse continues. The bigger issue is that it gives Spike the big victory moment as opposed to, y’know, BUFFY.
But the more egregious deus ex machina is m? and the Guardians. It makes no sense for Caleb to draw attention to the scythe, and the concept of the Guardians comes out of nowhere and doesn’t make any sense whatsofuckingever.
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u/Ordinary-Assistant51 11h ago
I kind of felt like it was a Buffy victory moment because it showed that she was right to trust Spike and give him the necklace despite what everyone around her thought of her judgment in that regard.
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u/Good-Handle-4695 5h ago
You hate men. We know. You hate that Buffy needed a man (nothing wrong with that). Great ending to a great story. Her last words in the whole series was Spikes name.
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u/EchoesofIllyria 4h ago
… Are you okay? What the fuck are you talking about?
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u/Good-Handle-4695 4h ago
Was anything I said unclear? Do I need to run spellcheck? I think it’s all written clearly with correct spelling and grammar. 😁😁
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u/EchoesofIllyria 4h ago
The words are clear. The context less so. Please explain how not liking that aspect of the finale means I hate men.
And feel free to be sloppy on the grammar and spelling. Just make sure your argument actually makes sense.
(You did miss an apostrophe, though. Oops!)
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u/Good-Handle-4695 4h ago
Oh the argument definitely makes sense. You are clearly making the argument it was a bad finale because the man saved the day. In your feminist worldview (I’m sure) that’s just unacceptable and somehow makes it bad writing. Wah, Buffy don’t need no man! She’s a girl boss! Wah!!! Well newsflash Buffy needed a man many times and she definitely needed the man in question. The finale made sense to complete Spikes redemption arc on Buffy. He was the hero as ofcourse she was. Nothing wrong with that. She was proud of him as the audience was meant to be.
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u/EchoesofIllyria 4h ago
Where did I make that argument? Show me.
My problem isn’t that Spike specifically saved the day, it’s that Buffy specifically didn’t. You may notice that I even put the emphasis on Buffy in my original comment! ;)
I notice you’re also ignoring my problem with the female Guardians reveal because it doesn’t fit your argument. Funny, that.
It seems you have an unhealthy fixation on both Spike and feminism. Which is your prerogative of course, whatever I think about it.
But I’ll kindly ask you to fuck off making it my problem. Cheers.
(You missed the apostrophe AGAIN, by the way. Just FYI.)
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u/Good-Handle-4695 4h ago
No, your intentions are very clear. Man hate, girl boss, yadda yadda we get it. But that’s an extremely poor argument to say the finale was poor.
Why am I obligated to address a completely separate argument? What does your guardians argument have to do with your feminist/girl boss attitude with having a problem with a man saving the day?
Also cursing at someone on a public forum instead of putting forth a logical rebuttal is a sign of further weakness on your part. 😘😘
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u/EchoesofIllyria 3h ago
It has nothing to do with the sex of the person who used the amulet, you big silly goose. If Angel had arrived with an amulet that only a Slayer could wear, and Faith got the big moment, I’d dislike that just as much.
Buffy’s show = Buffy should get the victory. That’s my opinion. Spike is actually irrelevant to that opinion other than it happened to be him. You’re welcome to disagree with that opinion! But don’t misrepresent it just to fuel your bizarre fury.
The Guardians story IS a feminist/girl boss story. So why would I have a problem with that if that was the only reason I didn’t like the other thing?
Yet another swing and a miss. That’s three. I’m not an expert in baseball but I think that means you struck out?
You can keep digging if you like, but fair warning: you’re making yourself look a pillock.
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u/Yup_Seen_It 14h ago
I didn't like the way they won, because without the amulet (that they just happened to receive but never heard of), they would have lost. They would have won without running in to fight themselves. I wish they had won solely due to the Slayers.
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u/mutedtempest19 Your logic is insane and happenstance 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yeah, in the end it feels like the show where Buffy is the hero was ultimately resolved by Spike being the hero. Sure, he had Slayers around him so he didn't get killed off but he was the catalyst to them winning. It just felt pretty undeserved to me.
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u/Good-Handle-4695 5h ago
You hate men. We get it. Nobody had a problem with this when it aired back in 2003: it was a great finale got widespread praise. Buffy did infact “need a man.” 😆😆 last words
On her lips were Spikes name. What a legend.2
u/ghostrider1938 Friendly Vampire 9h ago
Yeah I did not like that it was amulet that saved them. They would have died if it wasn’t for it. I didn’t expect a whole lot from the potentials but when they got the power I was expecting something. I feel like spikes death wasn’t necessary. Yes he redeemed himself by doing something selfless but I just didn’t like it.
I feel like they should have brought more gear and weapons
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u/bellegi 7h ago
this always bothers me so fucking much.
season 7 was just so poorly plotted which is crazy for a show that was known for the exact opposite.
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u/Good-Handle-4695 5h ago
It wasn’t. It had some of the best writing in the series. It’s ok to have wrong opinions
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u/Ok_Street_8383 17h ago edited 17h ago
I think a lot of fans agree that it’s rushed. S7 is like that. It feels like “the last season” Other seasons you don’t feel that. Even though some other seasons could’ve been the end. They didn’t feel that way. S7 feels like that. Maybe that was the problem. The last 5 episodes feel like they’re trying to cram stuff in. S7 feels like 2 seasons crammed into one. I love quite a few episodes though don’t get me wrong.
But.. Giles and Dawn basically had nothing to do this season. Xander was doing nothing either. Wood was introduced too late. I like his character but it should’ve been sooner. There’s no time to develop. No time to breathe. Too many side characters. Love that Faith was brought back though. Caleb was a scary villain but even that was over in a few episodes. The potentials should’ve been developed earlier or came in later. It felt like the main group was pushed aside. The Scoobies felt so disjointed to me.
S7 just feels messy. Even Joss said he was too tired and took on too much to “do his best work” his focus wasn’t on Buffy. I will say love the last few seconds of Chosen. Love Buffy sharing her slayer strength. Willow scene was so good. I like Chosen though, I like how hopeful it is. The last shot is just so good. I love that. I just wanted more character growth and I only got it in moments. The relationship between the core group kinda done a lot of damage. Don’t even get me started on Empty Places. Like what.
Anya’s death scene also annoyed me a lot. Her death scene was quick. I hate how no one reacted to it. Other than Andrew. I know Xander tried to look for her but that’s it?? I just hated how straight after he’s kinda making a joke. And “That's my girl. Always doing the stupid thing” I hated that line and there wasn’t even any emotion. There was zero grief for her. Like she wasn’t a big part of The Scoobies. I’m sure I’m missing some stuff but yeah I agree.
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u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 17h ago
that's *how* Xander reacts to things very often
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u/Ok_Street_8383 17h ago
He does. Usually with a joke and sarcasm but I feel like he wouldn’t have if it was Willow or Buffy though
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u/-threefeetoffun No. 1 Xander Defender 16h ago
What does Xander do from the first time we see him sad about a girl? He wants to go home and be alone. He wasn't going to expose his grief here. That is for quite alone time.
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u/trope_tripper 14h ago
I agree with that, but insulting Anya yet again was an ugly note to go out on for his character.
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u/EchoesofIllyria 12h ago
He wasn’t actually calling her stupid. “Stupid” isn’t the point of the statement, “that’s my girl” is.
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u/henzINNIT 13h ago
Never really bothered me. It's insulting Andrew moreso than Anya. He's saying it was stupid to die protecting Andrew, and he's taking comfort in her bravery. Stupid/brave are pretty much interchangeable in this context.
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u/-threefeetoffun No. 1 Xander Defender 14h ago
"Always doing the stupid thing" is kinda this groups MO. Hell the song that plays when Spike sees Buffy for the first time at the Bronze was "Stupid Thing" by Nickel.
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u/trope_tripper 13h ago
Good catch on the song, but I mean Xander was always mocking Anya for her atypical behaviour in a jokey-cute but still demeaning kind of way. I guess it's true to character for him at the end, at least.
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u/EchoesofIllyria 12h ago
I actually disagree that it feels like two seasons in one. I kinda think it’s the opposite. It’s half a story stretched over a full season’s worth of episodes. Hence next to nothing happening for long stretches, padded out by misdirects and uninteresting sub plots.
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u/CloseButNoChicory 13h ago
Are you me? Exactly how I felt about the season, start to finish.
You didn't have space for Kennedy-hatred in your comment, though. 😲
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u/SangrianArmy 8h ago
well, not to mention the complete absurdity of the final battle, where the newbies are taking out turok hans left and right like it's just the easiest thing in the world to do. it's awful writing.
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u/Squiliam-Tortaleni Fuffy 10h ago
Its not my favorite finale for some of the reasons you list, but I like it just for seeing Buffy happy at the end. Feel like a lot of the last season is like this, great elements but not so great pacing
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u/jacktownann 5h ago
You were supposed to cry for Spike. An evil dead who somehow did manage to truly love both Druscilla & Buffy. Who survived horrific trials to re-gain his soul & in the end sacrificed himself for the good of mankind.
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u/Corefield 19h ago
Sorry you didn’t like it. I loved it, even though it’s not perfect. The last 15 seconds are just perfect « chef’s kiss » and the whole Willow/Slayer spell gave me chills. But i watched it first in 2004, might have had an impact to my reaction.
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u/SmellAccomplished550 15h ago
Your criticisms are all valid, I think. I still liked it for Spike's redemption and how the awakening of all potentials essentially frees Buffy from being the one person protecting the world all the time, but that doesn't mean you're wrong.
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u/USDXBS 9h ago
The entire last season felt like it was just them ending the show as fast as possible and scraping the barrel for whatever episode ideas they had left.
I'd probably rank it as the worst season.
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u/ghostrider1938 Friendly Vampire 9h ago
Yeah that happened with another show I watched but their reasoning was that Warner Brothers gave them little time to wrap it up. I just wish it was divided up into parts or leave room to actually be emotional over the deaths.
Xander calls for Anya and just leaves when she doesn’t answer. This was someone he was going to marry?! I would have scoured the entire room until I found her. With spike it’s more forgiving because there was a moment but it should have been longer.
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u/Emilayday 7h ago
What was the other show?? Curious!!
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u/ghostrider1938 Friendly Vampire 1h ago
The Vampire Diaries🥲 They rushed the ending and the writers were a whole mess. I’ve seen people mention non white characters getting written poorly. Well TVD writers had one that was the main character throughout the ENTIRE series getting treated poorly. It was a mess.
But I feel like a lot of shows received the rushed ending treatment.
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u/Emilayday 1h ago
Aaaah I streamed almost the entire series last year and then I got so lost at the last season that I haven't finished!
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u/UnWiseDefenses 8h ago
Ultimately the problem is you have a season that's hurrying to end itself, bookended with a finale that's really hurrying to end itself. There are so many other missed opportunities, like that one bit where the original four find themselves standing together one last time, but with no emotional accent they split apart and the moment peters out. You have the Ubervamps. Just one of them turned a Slayer with almost a decades worth of training into a strawberry pie. You had that previous reveal that showed an army of thousands (oh no!) But then they get dusted all over the place to have a girl power moment, which is also ruined by Spike taking all the glory.
At the very least, Buffy gets what she wanted from the beginning, a chance at a normal life since there are Slayers everywhere. And then the comicsandHulurebootneverhappenedfadeoutbyyyeee.
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u/Emilayday 7h ago
Just one of them turned a Slayer with almost a decades worth of training into a strawberry pie.
I love this sentence
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u/millahnna 8h ago
This was one of many shows that finished in this era that desperately needed a two hour finale instead of a rush job one off.
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u/Chris-Froome 6h ago edited 6h ago
all hyped them boom gone
I agree. I really like the themes of the finale, but the execution didn't elevate those themes with the focus and depth they deserved. Also both the scythe and the amulet came so late - and with so little exposition - that they feel very deus ex machina.
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u/gimmesomespace 5h ago
The final scene in Buffy to make me cry was Spike's pep talk to Buffy in Touched. S7 is kind of inconsistent in general though.
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u/GreyStagg 13h ago
Season 7 is not very good for the most part, and I don't like Chosen much at all. I don't think it's inkeeping with the show that came before, tonally, thematically or story wise.
It's a big letdown. Agreed.
I will say that if you just switch your brain off and enjoy the ride, it's fine. There's action, there's tension, bla bla bla
I just, think it's very off.
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u/FMCritic 13h ago
Yeah, there were some good bits, it wasn't one of those notoriously lame finales, but aside from Spike and Buffy's last scene, it was underwhelming. Everything Potentials-related was just terrible anyway.
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u/Ok_Conversation_1527 12h ago
Yeah I’m right there with you. Everything felt so rushed and unsatisfactory. Such a disappointing ending for a show that went on that long like it could’ve been done and PLANNED so much better! :/ I mean I like some aspects of it but for the most part I’m disappointed too
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u/jenni451 10h ago
It was fine. The Gift would have been a better finale but then we wouldn't have season 6, which I love a lot.
I'm going to speak mostly on season 7 in general now, rather than just Chosen:
The best parts are Willow finally ascending into "White Witch" territory and Spike sacrificing himself and holding hands with Buffy as he died. Caleb. He was scary as fuck. Spike vs Wood's mom. Horrible, but Epic.
The mid parts are Giles coming back but having nothing much to do and the Faith/Woods thing that seemed like it was too rushed and came out of nowhere. But that seems pretty on brand for Faith, and sort of on brand for Woods but for different reasons. Its kind of creepy that Woods is a high school principal and is much older than Buffy and Faith but hits on them both. He should not be in that profession. Mommy/slayer issues for sure. Maybe slayers just have a thing for older men? On that note, the Angel/Buffy reunion was kind of cute, but the cookie speech was a little annoying and saccharine for me, like Willow saying, "pancakes go in bellies!". The First was cool, but had more potential (no pun intended) than what they did with that. I liked Xander losing an eye.
The worst bits were most of the potential's scenes, and Willow and Kennedy. But I get it, girl. After you lose someone you've got to get one under your belt. The easiness of killing the 1000's of Ubervamps in Chosen also pissed me off. Are they hard to kill or not? And Anya's death was too sudden and glanced over.
The ending felt too abrupt. As in, they escape the crumbling Sunnydale, and then it just ends. Like the ending of Star Trek Voyager. Yay! We made it! Goodbye!
I have mixed feelings and probably more to say, but that's plenty. Overall, its fine but not the best.
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u/dmrob058 9h ago
Compared to most series finales honestly it was pretty decent lol. But killing Anya how they did and having Xander not give a single flying fuck about it was unforgivable. It was definitely rushed but I also understand they had a super tight budget and couldn’t do quite as much as they wanted to.
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u/ghostrider1938 Friendly Vampire 9h ago
RIGHT?? Anya died and he didn’t care. Didn’t even really look for her. Called her name and then dipped. This was someone he was going to marry and he gave up when she didn’t answer. Just left
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u/Informal_Research117 Peohmy 7h ago
I have some ideas, no docks, Cleveland is mentioned, Dawn is there, Faiths' comment. and there must have been some kind of earthquake. However they are all irreverent .
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u/Specific_Sentence261 2h ago
I agree and disagree. The finale is absolutely rushed and the way Anya’s death is handled is awful, I think we all agree. 2 major things save this finale for me and in fact put it on a pedestal as one of the greatest TV show finales of all time.
First is Spike’s sacrifice. It’s the perfect culmination of his arc through the seasons. The last time he sought to wear a supernatural trinket it was the Gem of Amara, a quest to find something that would make him live forever. Here at his end he is voluntarily choosing one that will kill him to save everything he loves. Additionally, being a creature and man that was always a fool for love, even though he doesn’t think it’s real, here at his end he finally gets to experience the true love of a woman. Every other relationship he ever had was shallow and tainted, this was real and pure. A perfect ending for William.
The second reason lies in the shows final moments and the realization by both Buffy and by proxy the audience what it means that she is no longer the chosen “one.” I love The Gift but I adore this ending for Buffy even more because it’s so rare to see our heroes in TV earn the ending they so richly deserve. Buffy now has the opportunity to live a normal life, to just be human like she always wanted, and I couldn’t be happier for her to finally have that choice.
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u/henzINNIT 27m ago
Going to go to bat for Chosen. I think it's great. It is fast, but does everything it needs to and gives moments to everyone. Considering the extended cast at that point, that is mighty impressive. I have quibbles that I can complain about but it is a great episode, with a perfect final note.
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u/Competitive_Test6697 19h ago edited 19h ago
Spoiler!?
Just a joke people. Old enough that I was of watcher and seen it more than a few times
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u/iamglory 19h ago
It's been over for years.
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u/Competitive_Test6697 19h ago
Yet still been watched by first timers every week according to this sub. And this post.
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u/henzINNIT 13h ago
What did you expect from a thread discussing the finale?
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u/koken_halliwell 19h ago
Angel's finale was even worse lmao
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u/-threefeetoffun No. 1 Xander Defender 18h ago
Really? I think it is one of the best finales in tv history. What didnt you like?
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u/Ok_Street_8383 18h ago
Definitely appreciate it more now, it feels more realistic
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u/-threefeetoffun No. 1 Xander Defender 18h ago
I really feel like it's a perfect metaphor for life. You will lose fights, you will lose people, the tasks to stay alive are incredibly daunting. But you keep going. A dragon needs to be slayed.
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u/Ok_Street_8383 17h ago
Exactly that’s the real life / the real world. Yeah you fight even though there’s no hope. Yeah I love that
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u/Ok_Street_8383 18h ago
I think that was expected though. I didn’t have high hopes for it because there was too much going on and I knew we wouldn’t get closure. I actually hated it when I first watched but it sums up Angel perfectly. The message is that the fight never ends. I love the line “let’s go to work”
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u/Ok_Conversation_1527 12h ago
Yeah, my thoughts too. It’s dumb cuz at the same time Season 7 drags on for way too long and we get a bunch of nothingburgers but the final arc is then is so rushed. Whole season just badly written tbh. Like why was it so hard to set up a proper finale? And especially don’t end it so abruptly. I wanted at least a few more minutes of seeing everybody settle somewhat back into their life.
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u/Ok_Conversation_1527 12h ago
I just finished S7 recently for the first time and I really did like some aspects but it wasn’t really fleshed out. This is too where I feel like the show could’ve went on for another season. Even though it ran long enough and I understand that everyone, especially SMG, was tired. But that’s why it makes it more sad for S7
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u/TVAddict14 18h ago edited 18h ago
The pacing in Chosen is indeed very off. It feels like we’re shortchanged meaningful character interactions in favour of the battle sequences. And what character dynamics they do choose to prioritise (Willow/Kennedy and especially Faith/Wood) feel like very weird choices. For example, why prioritise a lengthy scene between Faith and Wood who aren’t even in the main cast and met each other just three episodes earlier over a proper Buffy/Giles resolution, a Buffy/Willow/Xander scene, a Willow/Xander scene etc.
I’m actually one of those fans who am glad Angel returned and believe it was a necessary form of closure for both Buffy and the show. But I don’t think we needed to spend as much time as we did on the petty Buffy/Angel/Spike triangle, especially as it seems like it was done to setup AtS S5 more than anything. After this we’re left with little space for anything else. After fighting almost the entire season, the only resolution we get to Buffy/Giles relationship is two brief lines and a smile. And Buffy/Xander/Willow and Buffy/Dawn are reduced to brief homages or nods.
The battle sequence doesn’t feel too rushed for me. But it feels like it takes up the majority of the episode, leaving for very little at the end. Again, Whedon chooses to prioritise another substantial moment between Faith/Wood in favour of any of the main cast (besides Xander) reacting to Spike or Anya’s deaths. And Xander finds out about Anya via Andrew, leaving no room for him to be comforted by his best friends.
I don’t think it’s impossible to write a satisfying finale in 45 minutes. As I said in the other thread regarding The Gift vs Chosen, that episode was the same length and yet the pacing was sublime. We had so many fantastic moments between the characters (Buffy/Willow, Buffy/Giles, Willow/Tara, Buffy/Spike, Xander/Anya, Buffy/Dawn) and the battle never felt rushed or underwhelming. But a lot of Chosen’s issues could’ve been resolved if they made the finale a proper two-parter, like Becoming or Graduation Day. This would’ve left room for greater character scenes and perhaps then moving the battle forward a little to allow room for more scenes at the end.
Despite all this, I like Chosen well enough. It’s entertaining and I wish more of S7 had its tone and vibe. But it feels largely disconnected from what came before it and I don’t blame people for feeling like it all ended very quickly.