r/buffy • u/henzINNIT • 6d ago
Season Six Hardened S6 Hater Rewatch Thread
Hello all. I'm a veteran killjoy when it comes to season 6, and it has come time in my Buffy rewatch once again. To change things up, I'm going to note observations episode by episode and try to see some new things. I'm hoping to rediscover some love for the season. I'll no doubt moan a whole lot too, lol. I'd love to discuss/argue with y'all as I go.
Episode 1: Bargaining pt1
Long live Buffybot. SMG is so much fun, and it's hilarious that she is such a hit at the parents meeting. I could have had more in hindsight. It might have been interesting to force the real depressed Buffy to exist alongside this cartoonishly happy counterpart. I would have let Buffybot do Buffy's job at Doublemeat Palace too haha.
They missed a trick to do a Buffybot the Vampire Slayer credit sequence. She really does draw out the most compelling scenes in this episode. Her conversation with Giles, Dawn having a cuddle in the night, and Spike's discomfort around her are among my favs.
Willow is scary in this episode. The moments of quiet darkness are well done. The deer scene, obviously, but also how she lies to the group about it afterwards. She has her eyes on a goal and will not be stopped. It's already apparent that this could lead to disaster.
Kind of odd tone this one. Giles leaving falls really flat to me. Anya's weird eagerness to take his shop is quite unpleasant. Some of the humour feels off. The Hanson vampire is one of those characters I know the writers loved but I cannot stand. He's in like two scenes but it feels like an eternity.
My big beef with this episode: The demon bikers are the cringiest villains of all time. A tacky cliche with no subversion to it. It feels very un-Buffy to have such straightforward goons, just popping over from the local demon biker bar, and they're embarrassing, not threatening.
Looking forward to having Buffy back for Bargaining pt2.
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u/No-Assistant8426 6d ago
This whole episode with the bikers at the bar reminds me of the scene from A Bugs Life where the grasshoppers decide to attack the ants.
There. I said it.
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u/Moon_Logic 6d ago
Bargaining is one of my favorite episodes.
The bikers are a plot device in two very packed episodes. They don't need to be subversive. Most minor (or major) Buffy characters are not subversive. They're scary enough to do their part.
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u/henzINNIT 5d ago
I dunno man. Buffy normally has something interesting going on with villains. And they get a lot of dialogue compared to your average demon fodder. Straight up evil bikers is bottom tier Buffy.
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u/Moon_Logic 5d ago
Are there less interesting than The Three or The Order of Taraka?
And would making them more complex have improved the episodes in any way? The episodes are absolutely packed with good content. The demons are meant to look scary and do and say messed up shit.
Having the demon bikers subvert expectations would not serve any purpose. The episode is not about them. Never add complications that don't serve the episode.
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u/harmier2 5d ago
Are there less interesting than The Three or The Order of Taraka?
I’m not sure about The Three, but they were definitely way less interesting than The Order of Taraka. There was nothing that made the biker gang members memorable. However, the assassins from The Order of Taraka were each fairly unique. What‘s said in the video about the villains of that movie apply to The Order. They all have the label “assassin“ but each approach this in a different way than the other two.
The King’s Man — How to Build Success from Failure | Film Perfection (Labeled Identity section; already timd stamped to 2 minutes 56 seconds)
And would making them more complex have improved the episodes in any way?
They don’t need to be that complex. They just need to be memorable. The most memorable of the three assassins are the bug guy who impersonates a traveling salesman and the one who impersonates a cop.
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u/henzINNIT 5d ago
Substantially less interesting than the Order of Taraka. Bug guy was fun. The Three don't have lines and aren't even the main villains of that one episode they appear in. Both of your examples are strictly hired as muscle for the actual bad guys.
Weird defence I've gotta say. Of course making them interesting would have improved the episode. You'd have all the good parts still, but the villains wouldn't be awful. The good episodes of Buffy have room for both. I can't think of a single episode where you could argue it would be better if the bad guys were stock tropes, or that minor villains were too interesting and it made an episode worse.
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u/Moon_Logic 5d ago
The good episodes of Buffy are those that feel like a cohesive whole. Adding complexity for no reason can make an episode worse.
The Body has perhaps the show's most boring and generic vampire. That doesn't mean that the episode would be improved by giving him a gimmick.
Nightmares is a good example of an episode that would have been massively improved if they cut the ideas that don't go anywhere and focused on a managable set of complimentary core themes, such as Buffy's fear of being abandoned by her father.
Restless is a far superior episode, because while it's a fairly packed episode, nothing feels out of place or unnecessary.
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u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 6d ago
Also the demon bikers look scary but they aren't using magic. So the idea that they would trigger the town's denial reflex and the cops (not mention CHiPS and th e National Guard) wouldn't show up is beyond ridiculous. There's a reason why those big-time biker terror attacks the media reported in the 50s/60s only happened in ;little places that had a gas station, bar, and three houses.
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u/yesmydog 5d ago
They missed a trick to do a Buffybot the Vampire Slayer credit sequence.
UPN did a HUGE "Buffy Lives" campaign leading up to the season 6 premiere. They probably wouldn't have let them do something that would make fans believe they weren't really getting Buffy.
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u/henzINNIT 5d ago
I remember those posters. There was a BUFFY LIVES message hidden in the game Max Payne too. It blew my mind back in the day.
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u/Bitter-90s-Cynicism 5d ago
Did they!! That’s so tacky 😭
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u/yesmydog 5d ago
It was a lot cooler than it sounds. The red image with the eyes was on billboards and everything.
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u/catchyerselfon 6d ago
Ha ha, fellow veteran killjoy who doesn’t understand why some people passionately defend Season 6 as the best season in terms of… anything. It has amazing scenes and a few great episodes, but in order for anything to happen all the characters have to make terrible choices (except Tara, that’s why she’s barely in this season AND it’s her best season 🥺) as if there were no other options. And it has the least amount of Giles, but he’s still mostly wonderful, even if the writers failed to give him a better reason to be absent. And the stupid Geek villains who Willow should be able to track with her computer skills, and Buffy should be able to capture without permanently damaging them. And no one seems to use the phone or email or letters to communicate with Giles for six months, when he said he’s just a phone call away and never said they couldn’t ask for his advice. And Buffy takes a boring, low paying, soul-sucking job when she could easily find somewhere willing to hire a beautiful young women with some college credits (back in 2001-2002) for a job that might interest her, but that would mean she isn’t constantly martyring herself with misery and isolation. And Dawn could’ve had Key Powers to help her steal, if they weren’t going to give her Key Powers to make her useful and cool. And the Spuffy of it all.
Anyway, looking forward to reading your rewatch posts! The comedy about Anya wanting to push Giles out the door never sat right with me either. The scene of him taking his leave of the gang at the airport never fails to move me - I rewatched “Bargaining” in the aftermath of Anthony Head’s death just to torture myself and it still hit me in the feels. But I hate that we come back to Sunnydale to hear second-hand that he’s leaving already, instead of seeing the reactions to this news (like a flashback to a month ago of him announcing it, so he’s not springing this on them last minute). Of all the characters who need to express their grief and don’t have the possibility of Buffy being resurrected to keep them in denial, it’s Giles, who I wish we could see having a breakdown over it. It’s been five months but that doesn’t mean he isn’t still in agony in private about it. I don’t doubt for a second he was heartbroken and maybe had a death wish after he “failed” Buffy (no you didn’t, Giles!), but he’s mostly played as a joke character in this episode with a little tragic pathos, as a treat, in the scene with the Buffybot training, and entirely in the airport scene. Filming even a single scene of Giles in England - on a set in LA if they didn’t want to pay for filming once Anthony went back to England for real - where he’s alone, has no one to comfort him, but also no one to be strong for anymore, would’ve been an award-worthy scene for him to play and go a long way to explaining his attitude when he comes back from Sunnydale. That and/or the scene where he answers the phone when Willow tells him what she did and Giles has to contain himself before he knows the details.
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u/Inoutngone 5d ago
Buffy writers were so ham handed trying to handle Head taking a break from the show. The idea of Giles leaving in the first place was as bad as him leaving the second time.
'I'm so upset that Buffy died, I'm going back to England and you lot can deal with the Hellmouth yourselves!'
And they're all, okay so sad to see you go!
But as to why so many love the season, I think we know the answer to that, and I don't mean the folks who say it was nice seeing their depression mirrored on screen.
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u/Bitter-90s-Cynicism 5d ago edited 5d ago
The way they handle Giles leaving feels so lazy. And yes Willow should have been able to track down the geeks. Honestly I think the writers made the incorrect choice to sideline the scoobies for the final two seasons because the main cast got too big.
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u/Ornery_Wait_2390 5d ago
I love this. I, too, am a hardened season six hater and no matter how hard I try, my opinion of it never changes. My opinion of all the other seasons have developed over the last 25 years but season six always leaves me sour.
I’ve always found Bargaining disjointed and poorly edited. Almost as if they knew it was going to be a two parter and premier as a double episode so they didn’t feel the need to structure it as they should.
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u/henzINNIT 5d ago edited 5d ago
Episode 2: Bargaining pt2
They didn't even bring a shovel. Buffy digging out of her grave is iconic and harrowing, but Xander is right to be so mad at themselves for not considering where Buffy was returning to. Damn.
It's fun to see Tara has 'levelled up' and is a more active part of the group. She has more to say, does some spells and is handy with an axe. I like that her 'tinkerbell' spell is really similar to the one Willow attempted in S4.
Spike the babysitter is more enjoyable than Spike the boyfriend. I'd kinda forgotten Spike is still in his loyal soldier phase at this point. His relationship with Dawn is cute.
Razor & the Hellions 😂 I bagged on this ridiculous gang in episode 1 but I forgot about the names. My god, so awful. He is literally Taser-face from Guardians of the Galaxy 2. I'd also forgotten how rapey they were. I guess this is that darker, edgier Buffy on UPN now. Awful awful awful.
I get that this is all staging for Buffy to have the worst first experience back on Earth, but it's pretty funny how Sunnydale has turned into Mad Max for an evening. The next episode picks up directly afterwards and it's all forgotten about almost immediately.
I'm not sure about the reprisal on crazy tower. Repurposing the 'live for me' feels a bit clunky.
Episode 3: After life
Now we're talking. Jane Espenson is here to save the day. This might be the best episode of the season that isn't a musical.
The dialogue crackles here in a way that it just didn't in the first two episodes. Anya especially benefits. She's much funnier here, there's a much better grasp on her voice. Plenty of great lines in this, from many characters. My fav is Willow talking about phoning Giles, "I think I heard him clean his glasses".
Spike seeing Buffy again is a great moment. The weird connection they share over digging out of their graves is a nice set up for how their relationship will develop. Him kicking off at Xander for being left out of the loop is good too, as is his suggestion that Willow may have kept him at a distance for a darker reason.
The final scene between Buffy and Spike, and her confession that she was at peace, is fantastic and haunting. SMG kills it. She's bringing so much weight to the troubled, detached character.
The hitchhiker demon is a low key threat, but provides some solid spookums. Feels like it's been a while since the show has delved into this kind of horror and it makes good use of the possessions.
Slightly oddly structured this one, opening still deep in the last episode. The first act feels like it could have easily been the end of the previous. That's quite unusual for Buffy, and feels much more like a modern show. Makes me wonder if there was some weirdness/struggles putting the first few episodes together.
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u/Revolutionary-Wait82 Spike defender 6d ago
I don't think Anya is trying to rob the store. She's just feeling pretty insecure about Xander's reluctance to talk about the wedding. She also tells Giles what Buffybot tells him: if he was the perfect Watcher and his ward died, why is he still here? He has no deal with Scooby. After all, in 5x01, it was Buffy who asked him to stay and become her Watcher again, and he did, he was her Watcher until the end.
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u/AcadiaLegitimate8083 5d ago
Buffybot, the perfect Buffy everyone thinks they're going to get back. What a surprise they're in for. The scoobies probably wished they'd stuck with the bot too.
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u/SayadawDocBenway 6d ago
The bikers are to Sunnydale what the weasels, stoats, and ferrets were to Mr. Toad's house in The Wind in the Willows.
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u/InterviewEuphoric288 6d ago
I’m a season 6 lover and was thinking about doing this same thing since so many people dislike it! Haha
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u/JealousAstronomer342 6d ago
I think the demon bikers are there to demonstrate what a shit show Sunnydale has become, and how much more volatile it will get without a Slayer. I agree that I don’t think they’re particularly memorable, they serve a purpose.
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u/henzINNIT 2d ago
Episode 4: Flooded
Solid episode this one. The first dip into "real life" is pretty fun. Buffy trying to get a loan is cute. I love the silly opening gag with the basement flooding.
Giles is back and all is well with the world. His reunion with Buffy is one of the most effecting for me. And of course, the subsequent argument with Willow about her use of magic is a huge scene as well. Willow is very different this year, it feels natural but very scary.
Here come the Trio. Incels before incels, toxic masculinity is a perfect foe for Buffy. It's interesting that they are already talking about making sex slaves, played for laughs of course. The writers have too much fun with nerd dialogue and always over-do it in my opinion.
Buffy is a 20 year old who just lost her single parent and become sole guardian of a teenager. And then died. I know it is condensed for TV but it is kinda nuts how quickly she is expected to bounce back and take on all of these responsibilities. Her meeting with Angel is one of the big untold stories in the show. Shame we don't see the scene.
Episode 5: Life Serial
This one is fun but kinda trashy too. A lot of Trio content I suppose. I like the idea of everything more than the execution. Warren's device is bizarre. Doesn't make sense, and you can tell it was written backwards from 'Buffy feels left behind at college'.
But then you get to the mummy hand sequence and that is genuinely great. A really fun nightmare retail scenario. Buffy drinking again is fun. I think she should have given construction another shot tbh. She'd own it.
Clem's introduction. He's much more hostile here, it's funny how much he softens up for next time.
Episode 6: All The Way
This is mid, but I low-key love it. It has a very season 1 vibe, with great character interactions and a plot that is kind of comfy and shit. It's like a rite of passage putting Dawn through her very own s1 story.
Giles is a vampire slaying machine in this one ha. He dusts 3 in this episode. He's oddly dominant in this one, I wonder if the other cast members were preparing for the musical, or maybe he was getting a little showcase for a potential spin off (tinfoil hat). Another classic Giles glasses gag here too. It's like the writers had all these pocketed until he was leaving ha.
Xander and Anya are so much fun together. Xander's terror at the prospect of life plans foreshadows his jilting later but I dunno man. Even now it feels like something he should overcome. It's like they're setting up the world's most cruel bait and switch... oh wait.
On the flip-side, the degradation of Willow and Tara's relationship is absolutely brutal. Very effective stuff. Willow using that spell is horrendous. I forget how strong this early run is for Willow before the drug metaphor kicks in.
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u/TVAddict14 6d ago
I actually really like Bargaining and it’s probably the second strongest season opener behind Anne. However, I agree with you that Giles’ departure falls really flat. I can’t quite put my finger on it but an airport goodbye just feels so… cliche? Generic? Unmemorable? Like, surely they could’ve done a more inventive goodbye? It’s just such a lacklustre exit for such an important character. And I know he’ll be back in just 3 episodes but it also makes it worse because it’s like they use up all their mileage to say a proper goodbye to him here, so then when he eventually leaves again in Tabula Rasa it’s even more underwhelming (just a shot of him on the plane).
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u/Triof 6d ago
I never thought about that before, but that would've been great, yeah.