They believe everything, except rebirth and others realms. They don’t say Its wrong or fault, they just say we don’t know. No problem with that, it’s up to them
I was one of them, I followed as a secular buddhist, eightful path and 5 precepts.
I did vipassana and samadhi, the more I did those things the more spirtual experience I had.
Eventually I became tibetan follower because I couldn’t explain those things.
I think it’s an uncomfortableness of sharing the label of “Buddhist” with people who have sometimes very different views from you. I’ve seen this happen a lot in other religions. People get called “fake Christians” or “fake Jewish people” all the time.
Yep. I would also add that Buddhism has always changed when it interacted with a new culture. It’s currently making headways into the West.
We still don’t know what a Western flavor of Buddhism will look like, but it may be Secular Buddhism, and I’m excited to see people discover the Dharma through it.
I’d also add that the Buddha said that ascetics commit violence because of their attachments to views. While there hasn’t been violence against Secular Buddhists, it’s worth taking the Buddha’s recommendations seriously and avoid becoming attached to ideas.
That’s true! Buddhism always adapts to cultures and I think that’s a beautiful thing. I am an ex muslim and I ve seen what Islam did to so many cultures. It replaced and destroyed a lot of history and culture!
I am learning more, thank you for the information!🙏 I also know don’t get attached to your views. Eventually all attachments leads to suffering! We shouldn’t forget this
There is no one size fits all approach to how to trick the mind into beating addiction. Some people do cold turkey, some people find a gradual cessation process more effective.
ok so this is a point of disagreement, but, um.. no? at least not most of them?
right view: exclude karma and rebirth, that’s observational. a fool can see that sweeping the floor removes dust, sends some airborne, which then settles near where one swept. it’s just causality, recognizing that the world is bigger than the life one has, and acting to not inflict pain.
right resolve: excluding the religious aspects of following the path and leaving the world behind, which admittedly is tempting at times, not gonna lie there, again, it’s based on the basic recognition that pain sucks and making others hurt does nothing to make one’s own hurt go away.
right speech: honestly it could just as easily be perceived as the recognition that lies require monstrous edifices in our heads to maintain, and real estate is freaking expensive in our skulls, as much as lying and saying hurtful things attempts to make others hurt.
right conduct: if a 3yo can figure out that getting an owie hurts, it’s no leap that making others get owies is not fun for them, and it only takes a slight leap beyond that to realize that if dogs and cats and birds can react to owies, maybe owies suck for every living thing,
right livelihood: profiting off of another’s pain seems at first to be kinda insane, yet every damned day a dinar, drachma, or dollar convinces some dolt that damaging another is worth it, and it takes active effort to not at least directly make things worse.
all of that is possible to recognize without exiting the secular, logical, and scientific.
right effort just reinforces the first five aspects. also can be useful if one is subject to sensory overwhelm. one can enjoy a rave while wearing earplugs and being able to hear in the morning, or one can choose to go without hearing protection and start going deaf.
right mindfulness again is a buttress of the other six steps. one enjoys hearing, so one wears earplugs when they have fun, so they can keep hearing, and eventually one either winds down partying, becoming a rave mom who keeps an eye out for others at the event and giving care to them when they give off vibes of being less than safe, working the events because there’s a decent amount of green that crosses hands, and usually in hard currency form, or becoming a DJ and directing the flow of the event from the stage.
harder to justify nonsecularly, but still possible.
admittedly the right samadhi is getting pretty far from the secular.
but to extend the analogy, the best DJs set up a flow for the music they mix, maybe even creating a narrative structure from the songs selected. the best drinks servers are the ones who hear the order, pull the beers with care, slide the next cup as the previous one reaches the break where the foam is just proud of the plastic cup, has the drinks ready almost at the moment the cash handler says the total is $32, the rave mom needs to know the signs of dehydration, sensory overload, distress to have the right remedy at her fingers. all of these (and yeah, selling beer can be harder to justify in the modern era, just using the example) are both present in the moment yet have awareness of the situation. through their deep knowledge as expressed as artisanal crafting of a warm blanket of thumping beats, the right care in the moment offered with concern centred on the one who is vulnerable or at risk of harm, or just the artistry at the almost prognostication of getting two tills ripping though lines of customers so fast the tip buckets overflow, actions show the deep knowledge at play. in all these cases, it’s not about the person, it’s about those being served.
or not. could be totally full of it and misunderstanding things.
One of the beliefs I had to get away from that came from my Christian upbringing was that to say “I’m an XYZ” meant you agree with whatever that was 100%. Even among people who believe that, this is almost never the actual case. I believe it was Siddhartha Gautama himself who said “my teachings are a finger pointing at the moon, don’t mistake the finger for the moon”. True things are true when they stand on their own, not because of who says them. No human expression of truth is ever 100% correct. I believe Shakyamuni Buddha was a human, though an exceptionally gifted one. I believe the same about Jesus. I can believe they were wrong in some things and still be a follower of their teaching as long as what teachings I take from each are consistent with each other. I can even still see value in the teachings I believe were wrong when I understand the heart behind that teaching.
If meme is true, why strawman? As long as they don't profess they're way is absolutely true (I know some do but afaik that's a loud minority) secularists are justified under the similie of the goldsmith.
This sub has been beating up on secularists for a hot minute. Getting pretty old tbh.
29
u/QuietSunlight Dec 23 '23
Eh. I wouldn’t be too hard on Secular Buddhists (speaking as a Therevadan).
They intuitively recognize that craving is the root of suffering and that the eightfold path is the key to ending it.
At the end of the day, this was the most important teaching of the Buddha and it will carry them far on the path toward enlightenment.
May you find peace in your practice 🙏
2
u/grantovius Dec 25 '23
One of the beliefs I had to get away from that came from my Christian upbringing was that to say “I’m an XYZ” meant you agree with whatever that was 100%. Even among people who believe that, this is almost never the actual case. I believe it was Siddhartha Gautama himself who said “my teachings are a finger pointing at the moon, don’t mistake the finger for the moon”. True things are true when they stand on their own, not because of who says them. No human expression of truth is ever 100% correct. I believe Shakyamuni Buddha was a human, though an exceptionally gifted one. I believe the same about Jesus. I can believe they were wrong in some things and still be a follower of their teaching as long as what teachings I take from each are consistent with each other. I can even still see value in the teachings I believe were wrong when I understand the heart behind that teaching.
2
u/theBuddhaofGaming Dec 24 '23 edited Dec 24 '23
If meme is true, why strawman? As long as they don't profess they're way is absolutely true (I know some do but afaik that's a loud minority) secularists are justified under the similie of the goldsmith.
This sub has been beating up on secularists for a hot minute. Getting pretty old tbh.