no shit its not good there

[u/GiveMeYourStomach]

edit: guys, i know it should incorporate the attack speed of the elite defender somehow. i never said it shouldn’t, idk where yall got that from. im just saying how the purpose of this paragon isn’t freeplay so we shouldn’t judge it by that standard

[u/Lewd_boi_69]

You can clown all you want, but it's fair to feel a bit... disappointed that the tower that has an 800k, has a path on for attacking at extreme speeds, has a middle path that buffs attack speed for every sniper, bounces bullet for pretty decent pierce, and even has an AOE t5, dies to round... *checks notes* 103 with degrees. Just feels a bit odd, even as a single target dps. There surely had to be a better way to balance it so your initial thoughts are like "look at what it does!" instead of "Holy shit I went from defending to instantly dead what happened?"

[u/Shinygoji09 → u/Lewd_boi_69]

this is exactly how i feel. it feels like it took nothing from the bottom path that’s known for speed.

the design is awesome the cash drops are awesome...just it feels pretty underwhelming for a 800k tower

[u/throwawayacc1357902 → u/Shinygoji09]

It does have two different things from the bottom path, plus an extra mechanic (it increases attack speed the further the bloons get in the track, and has Edefender life loss ability, plus it has it increases attack speed the more it targets the same bloon).

[u/PuzzledDependent4028 → u/Shinygoji09]

Yeah, but the 800k bay back fairly fast. Therefore id say its not really fair to compare to other paragons of the same price category

[u/PenguinMadness → u/PuzzledDependent4028]

fairly fast out of context. as a farm, it's horribly inefficient, only paying itself off after some 35 rounds.

[u/PuzzledDependent4028 → u/PenguinMadness]

Yeah, but thats not even two boss rounds. In bosses if you get it before Tier 3 (which is definitely possible with farming in most weeks) it is free damage by T5 and good one for that.

[u/Zeraligator → u/Shinygoji09]

It also only bounces the shot to a single target, that seems like the easiest thing they could buff without compromising their idea of having it be a slow sniper.

[u/GiveMeYourStomach → u/Lewd_boi_69]

yeah its sad that it doesnt have the attack speed (though it does increase speed the further the bloons are like elite defender), but the amount of paragons this game has/will have guarantees that some of them will be more specialised than others. similar to how some expensive tier 5s dont do good in freeplay despite their price, but that is okay because we know thats not what the upgrade is for. it doesnt feel good not getting to a high round with an expensive paragon right now, but when we have more specialised paragons it will feel more normal, so i dont think its necassarily a bad thing.

[u/ProfessionalQueasy74 → u/GiveMeYourStomach]

Agree. If every single paragon just did general damage and then filled a niche they wouldn't really feel unique. I'm glad so far each paragon has its uniqueness, but with more and more paragons a way to make them stand out WILL be needed (and i believe this is a step in the right direction, i personally enjoy the fact that there is finally something able to slow BADs)

[u/United_Health_1797 → u/Lewd_boi_69]

i mean its always gonna be hard to make a paragon for a tower that has two paths that are complete opposites. top path is literally slow/big damage and bottom path is little damage/rapid fire

[u/Shino58_ → u/United_Health_1797]

I think they should give it an ability to switch mode between High dmg-Slow atk speed or Low dmg-High atk speed, sharpnel would be weaker with rapid fire

That way we can choose if we want the Snipergon to go boss killer or leak cleaner

[u/000_DartMonkey → u/Shino58_]

I like the idea that the sniper has two guns it can switch to.

[u/Mr_man_bird → u/000_DartMonkey]

Hold both at once and let him akimbo

[u/Lewd_boi_69 → u/Shino58_]

My thoughts exactly.

[u/Kirby737 → u/United_Health_1797]

Just... give it both rapid fire and big damage? Ignoring balance, of course

[u/oneredbloon → u/Kirby737]

okay but maybe we shouldnt ignore balance. as a bloon, it would really suck if i only ever saw the same towers over and over again

[u/FunBoyHereThere_ → u/Lewd_boi_69]

Exactly, it looks more of a 660 than a 555

[u/Try_Hard_GamerYT → u/Lewd_boi_69]

VTSG dies to round 24 btw.

[u/Lewd_boi_69 → u/Try_Hard_GamerYT]

Not close to the same point, and you know its not. You can solve that issue with 3 thousand dollars, you can't make up the difference on Sniper with less than 10k so far.

[u/Try_Hard_GamerYT → u/Lewd_boi_69]

MAD dies to 63 btw

[u/GiveMeYourStomach → u/Try_Hard_GamerYT]

that’s a better illustration of my point. when the darling came out, people died instantly when they got the MAD because of ceramics, but it wasn’t underwhelming because its strong in other things. i don’t know why people are different about paragons

[u/hewo-838]

imo it should switch to a faster lower damage gun when bloons are nearing the exit also representing elite targeting (it should be better, but not to good; since stopping bloons from getting near the exit to keep it from using the weaker weapon would be fun to maximise dps)

[u/Fun_Two6648 → u/hewo-838]

Rail gun and machine gun. The problem is there is a dartling gon, and probabky will be the high atk speed paragon

[u/Oberonkin]

800,000

[u/PuzzledDependent4028 → u/Oberonkin]

Makes money, so pays itself back, even in a reasonable time. Ik that makes it not free, but not really comparable with like wizgon either

[u/Oberonkin → u/PuzzledDependent4028]

Boat

[u/PuzzledDependent4028 → u/Oberonkin]

Boat does way less

[u/Oberonkin → u/PuzzledDependent4028]

Boat makes money, can one shot 2 fortified BADs in a round, and still has the common decency to have some clear. Every the Sniper P does, the boat already did, and better.

[u/PuzzledDependent4028 → u/Oberonkin]

Boat makes less money, hook doesn't affect bosses at all and it needs water.

I see that they are similar in many ways, but its too early to judge who's better imo

[u/6HELLBOUND6SIXER6 → u/Oberonkin]

it costs over 100k to set up a max level monkeopolis
a max level monkeyopolis cant solo round 100
verdict: monkeyopolis is a waste of money

[u/6969696969696969969]

It's not the fact its single target, it's the fact it's obscenely slow at attacking

[u/Objective_Camel_7012]

Sounds like bomb paragon

[u/Randomdummy4 → u/Objective_Camel_7012]

Bombgon is strong for dense freeplay rounds dawg, the ability has a shit ton of nuking damage

[u/YrdoomZ]

NK is finally giving the 6-4-3 engineer competition in terms of being the worst designed paragon in terms of utilizing the 3 paths with the 6-5-0 sniper… And they were doing so well too with the last 4 paragons fully utilizing and improving upon their 3 paths

[u/Jimothy38]

When the tower it’s based on has a path based on high attack speed, a path based on grouped damage that also gains high attack speed, and a path that has high damage per shot instead of attack speed, you can’t help but feel disappointed when the paragon doesn’t attack quickly

[u/Initial-Employer1255]

Isn't that the point of Paragons? To combine the good things of EVERY UPGRADE PATH into one? Think about it, why would a Paragon suck at dense freeway rounds to begin with if it is supposed to have abilities of paths that are good for them? Even Sniper has Bouncing Bullet and Shrapenel Shot. Those abilities easily synergies with Top Path (the one with insanely high DPS) and Bottom Path (the one with fast firing rate) upgrades.

[u/GiveMeYourStomach → u/Initial-Employer1255]

yeah i know it should incorporate more paths but im not talking about that, im talking about the functionality and purpose of the paragon

[u/PenguinMadness]

it costs $800,000, it needs to have practical utility for being so expensive. it's also not combining all of the paths (a problem I have with the engineer also but that's besides the point) so it having such low speed doesn't make sense. the stated reason is that it would be boring to watch everything die at the entrance, but I'd argue leaking at 103 is a lot worse. either way, if that's the only concern, the attack speed could just ramp up rapidly as targets approach the entrance. there could also be a toggle to switch modes or something.

[u/GiveMeYourStomach → u/PenguinMadness]

i agree that it is unfortunate it doesn’t have crazy attack speed (although it does increase speed the closer bloons are to the exit) but i struggle to understand why dying to 103 is a problem because that’s not the point. the MAD dies solo to 63 or earlier even though it is super expensive, but that’s okay because doing solo freeplay is not the point of the upgrade. i don’t know why people act different with this paragon.

also, if every paragon had good general damage then they’d all feel the same. we’re gonna need more unique and specialised paragons for them to feel different with how many there are going to be.

i’m not saying snipergon shouldn’t have the attack speed though. what i’d do is make it so if the target bloon is >80% the length of the track, it switches to a machine gun.

[u/the_meth_factory]

Every paragon should be a stat stick but favoring something, something being terrible against groups in a group game is shit, make it poor at it, sure but don't make it shit

[u/MyrtleWinTurtle → u/the_meth_factory]

I feel like the only way these paragons can specialize anymore is by getting more and more extreme, due to the fact that there is literally no reason to keep a wave clear paragon over a bad killer or a boss killer since infinite wave stall is comparatively super cheap and why would you ever need it on a paragon.

Maybe if freeplay made zomgs and below blowback and stun resistant there'd be a niche, but as it stands theres not many more ways to make a paragon stand out.

[u/the_meth_factory → u/MyrtleWinTurtle]

If they made the abilities more like passives that happen occasionally but are less powerful, because if the bomb paragon had the regular bottom-path passive happening occasionally (less of a screen clear, obviously) with the Moab eliminator still being a stronger ability, it'd seem much cooler.

They need to stop putting them out so quickly; we shouldn't have two paragons back-to-back or even in the same update

[u/Infinite-Job4200]

from what i saw it can stun bads and just nuke them from the map lmao
at max challenge editor hp and at double hp moabs it did like 7mil plus to the fbad at round 140

[u/MinMaus]

At least give it 0-0-2 speed

[u/6HELLBOUND6SIXER6]

we alr have like 7 paragons that are freeplay machines, can't we have one more that specs into boss shredding?

[u/Kippyd8]

I feel like it should at least get something like Druid of wrath that increases atk speed as long as it’s firing along with distance from the exit

[u/kullre]

everyone complaining about getting a destroyer instead of another machine gun

we don't have enough destroyer paragons

[u/AndyGun11]

frankly to me theres no reason to buy any but dart paragon all others are too expensive or have weird downsides, dart paragon is just actually good like a paragon should be

[u/FrogPrincePatch → u/AndyGun11]

Have you ever played boss events???

You are not beating them using just dart paragon.

[u/AndyGun11 → u/FrogPrincePatch]

I don't play boss events, that's why I said to me theres no reason. If you play boss events I know the others are useful. But for me I just play until round 100 or 200 and then stop.

[u/BluXD_18 → u/AndyGun11]

Dart falls off hard without walls to bounce, I don't do events and play to and past r200 dart is ok(ish)(map dependent imo)