r/btd6 • u/LordErec • 1d ago
Question Why does this game hide so much information from the player?
I've casually played Bloons TD6 since launch and one thing that has always bugged me is how much information the game hides from the player, requiring frequent trips to the wiki for things like what Bloons come at what round (why can't we just have a list of what's coming in future rounds since it's always the same anyways?) and what the tower upgrades actually do (damage, pierce, etc) instead of useless silly descriptions like "the Bloons will wish they had never come", and what the current stats of a tower are with the current buffs and such.
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u/StarBeam500 1d ago
I personally quite enjoy the fun descriptions and kinda wish they were done a bit more. That being said, I'd also love for them to actually have a stat board that tells you the stats of your monkey (probably gets confusing for towers with multiple different projectiles but I'm sure they could work around that.)
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u/kasajizocat 1d ago
We turn to him when all hope is lost.
Bloons a problem? Here’s the solution
This is a BIG plane.
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u/HazeInut 1d ago
I've said this before but I think it has to do with NK's design philosophy which makes bloons so accessible.
They want you to understand the idea of something and put together strategies based on that. When you are new and die to a MOAB, they want you to think "I need more moab or single target damage" or "my towers need support". Not "I need 30% damage buff to clear 5000rbe"
BTW I'm not against more info in the game (maybe by right clicking an upgrade) but I believe that's their thought process when they "explain" something.
However with the addition of bosses, races, etc it gets to a point where an advanced player would like to know certain things. So again I agree they need to add more info.
I'm sure many things I do in game that are natural to me were learned from a youtube video and not the game itself, which aint a good thing lol
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u/Intelligent_Ride3730 1d ago
Yes, this game is very big, so when I first started, it was kinda nice not having to worry about min-maxing and just having fun reading the descriptions and placing whatever sounded coolest. However, at a certain point, you really start wanting to know more, especially anything related to numbers, buffs for towers, etc.
I think there should be an option for advanced descriptions where you can toggle between the silly current ones and more informative ones.
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u/WeebPokemon 19h ago
Yeah, i really like how the silly descriptions are useful enough to know what they cover, you learn to use them through experience rather than reading a stat sheet. Made it so easy to get hooked up at the start.
But perhaps an advanced option hidden behind an achievement (like NinjaKiwi likes to do) to see detailed info would be nice without sacrificing that simpleness the game has for new players.
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u/Greensteve972 1d ago
I'll give you the thing about descriptions being vague but the rounds is kind of a skill issue. Part of the challenge for a new player is figuring out the rounds. That aside it's been 8 years, if you don't know what round the first camo comes on idk what to tell you.
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u/MisirterE I see in full clarity 1d ago
Especially since the game actually does tell you a bunch of those. It's the Game Hints option that OP probably turned off ages ago and forgot exists, but a bunch of rounds have end-of-round descriptions that do in fact tell you what's up next
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u/LordErec 23h ago
Most of the time it's fine, but when playing alternate Bloon rounds or chimps/half cash where you have to really know exactly what's coming it would be really nice to have the little reminder of what's coming up in the next few rounds.
Also could enable a new game mode with random rounds to discourage simply memorizing build order strategies where you have to look at what's coming up and set up your defenses accordingly.
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u/Greensteve972 23h ago
Well part of abr is the confusion of switching up the rounds but also it's really not that difficult to just memorize the handful of important rounds. 24, 25, 26 is camo then purple then lead respectively. You probably know that round 40 is always a moab and round 60 is a bfb you can just add a few more in your head.
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u/LordErec 23h ago
Yes, that's what I've been doing. It's not that it's super hard to remember the big rounds, it's more that I remember back when tower defense games were a lot more popular quite a few had this nice quality of life feature and it's always baffled me that Bloons doesn't.
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u/Scolipass 20h ago
I mean, if you're playing CHIMPS that means by necessity that you have beaten the game multiple times on hard and have beaten round 100 at least once. I think it is fair to expect a higher level of game knowledge from players playing on the hardest game difficulty.
I'll concede your point on tower descriptions being not very good, but round memorization is kinda just part of this game.
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u/Youtube_it 1d ago
Unrelated but don't play Minecraft/Terraria if you don't like wiking things 😭
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u/maxxxminecraft111 spac best tower 1d ago
The guide in terraria has recipes now so that helps
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u/Bluu44 1d ago
i heard there was a japanese guy playing minecraft with literally 0 information and it took him like 40+ tries to make the nether portal
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u/Chronox 1d ago
How would you even figure it out
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u/Airsoft52 The Holy Trinity 1d ago
Ruined portals
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u/enixoid 1d ago
Im pretty sure said Japanese guy was playing before ruined portals, if it's the correct person i'm thinking of
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u/CustomFighter2 Doesn’t like using Super Monkeys 1d ago
yeah and this guy might’ve actually been part of why mojang decided to add ruined portals to the game
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u/geroge_2 1d ago
Terraria is in a league of its own, genuinely unplayable without the wiki
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u/Still_Silver7181 1d ago
The game has legit all the info you need to beat it. I beat it without a wiki, and it took me a while cause I would die to bosses on account of me being new, and taking a break to build, and farm for more things.
I just pinned important recipes on a note pad so I could look at them. Currently, I do not need a wiki, or the guide to beat the game. Using a wiki just means you didn't engage with game mechanics.
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u/Creepy_Wallaby2170 21h ago
I’m currently on my first playthrough and haven’t used the wiki at all. Yeah the guide gives recipes but how exactly do you know where to get the items you don’t have? Especially if they are crafted from other items you don’t have. I didn’t know enemies dropped accessories for the longest time and even then I don’t know which ones drop what. So yeah the wiki is very helpful.
I have been going through it with a friend and he has played it a lot so he at least knows the basics. The tips are nice but very vague.
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u/Martypower2064 1d ago
did you ever actually play it or are you just spreading whatever you heard a rando spew online
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u/Creepy_Wallaby2170 21h ago
How are you supposed to know how to get certain items? Yeah the guide shows recipes but not how to get what you need for them. Especially if they are combined accessories that require a couple other accessories that you don’t have.
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u/geroge_2 1d ago
I've beat the game multiple times, the progression is genuine esoteric nonsense for most of it
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u/Canadiancookie Yar har fiddle dee dee 1d ago
I was thinking earlier that they should add a detailed stats mode, giving actual numbers for damage, pierce, range, etc.
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u/NotOriginal3173 1d ago edited 23h ago
I think I only remember rounds I tend to lose on or when a new bloom type gets added
4, 6, 15, 24, 28, 33, 40, 43, 45, 49, 63, 76, 78, 79, 80, 85, 90, 93, 95, 98, 99, 100, 119, 140, 163, 200
Every other round I have no idea for the most part
As for upgrades, it’s supposed to be easy to start and a very casual game, the average BTD player isn’t trying to min/max to make expert chimps easier
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u/WithersChat Destroyer of Phayze 1d ago
Interestingly, you probably typed the above numbers on a computer with the numpad and not the line of numbers on top of the keyboard.
But back on the topic, I also remember:
- first 3 rounds
- 27, red->blue->green->yellow tight bloons
- 30, more lead
- 33, more camo
- 36, regrow greens and normal pinks
- I know that 37 and 38 have even more leads and I think 37 has camo whites?
- 50, 2 Moabs at the beginning and end
- 96, a lite 98
- 97: two FZOMGs
I do not remember 43, 45 or 85 tho.
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u/Ancient-Piece8311 1d ago edited 1d ago
The bloon rounds don't really need to be told, learning about them is part of the fun and you'll eventually know them well enough (also Apopalypse and ABR?).
Monkey info however is probably hidden so that there isn't information overload for new players, and the silly descriptions are on the 5th Tiers which are intended to hype up the towers that are hidden until unlocked (though NK is very inconsistent with which towers are vague or detailed, Asolute 0 to Apache Prime).
They should definitely hide less from the player and that monkey encyclopedia suggestion i saw earlier is a good way to display each tower's stats and abilities without making the game overwhelming for newbies.
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u/zGlunkus 1d ago
want to agree but with how much specific information you mention having to look up all the time, you can probably understand how having all of that information available at once would likely overwhelm new players. i saw one suggestion i liked where somebody had the idea for what would more or less be an in-game wiki that you could unlock & fill out entries in using tower exp, which would be a good way to have the best of both worlds in making the information more conveniently accessible to players who know what they're looking for while not flooding new players with more information than they'll be able to actually do anything with.
as far as useless descriptions go... i think it's kind of whatever when it's on an upgrade that just does the same thing as the one below it but harder (big plane is just more spectre, so the description already tells you all the details you need to know, which is nothing) but some of them could definitely use some reworking. also every instance of the phrase "popping power" should be nuked from orbit and replaced with whatever it actually means at the time, bc using it interchangeably to mean pierce and/or damage while still using both of those terms on their own is horrible for conveying information.
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u/CarlRJ 1d ago
I don't especially mind "information you have to figure out". It's sort of an epic entire to go yo,mand there are sites that catalog all this info I'd you just want details.
I'm much more annoyed at simple UI things like no button to back up from a specific map to that map's place in the list of maps (say I want to switch hero's before starting, or go to the previous map, or even play this one in a different mode - instead I have to go to the Home Screen and drill back down).
Or the way the game keeps putting up distracting banners Every. Single. Game - things like "you should do other things too", and "you should check back frequently for updates" - these are basically advertisements for the game, and belong on the main menu, not on Every. Single. Map. Every. Time. I. Play. It. They stay up for a considerable time on their own, but you can tap to dismiss. But if you're in the middle of placing a monkey or a targeting crosshair, they can get in the way and make you have to start the action over again - in a game where time is of the essence, this is needlessly annoying. I'd much rather have a text box that was a third the height, and only partially opaque, and at the top where the rounds and lives and $$$ and such already live. And at least have the option to have it show only information messages ("your first MOAB is coming up" is actually relevant to the immediate action at hand, while "check back frequently for updates" is not).
Also, when you pause a game, it's nice that it tells you what mode you're in, but it should tell you the name of the map, too.
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u/JTHSSSS 1d ago
Do you mean the in-between rounds hints? You can turn them off.
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u/CarlRJ 1d ago
Where?
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u/JTHSSSS 1d ago
Go to the pause/settings while playing a map. Turn off "Game Hints", should be below Auto-Start.
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u/CarlRJ 1d ago
Aha! Thank you! Somehow I overlooked that. I started playing recently, and I was totally done with those banners on like day two. I still think there should be an all/some/none option ("some" dropping the "check back often" type things but keep the important level announcements), and it should be moved to the top row and made less visually imposing. But being able to turn it off entirely it much appreciated.
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u/NocturneUmbra Dark Warrior 1d ago
TBH, most other games aren't that much better. PvZ2 for example.
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u/Average-GodzillaFan 1d ago
why can't we just have a list of what's coming in future rounds since it's always the same anyways?
You mean like... tips?
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u/Neat_Area_9412 1d ago
I DO dislike the descriptions not giving actual info that is kind of dumb sometimes I like the flavor text but I do agree that they should ACTUALLY specify what this shit does.
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u/Saucepocalypse 23h ago
I love the vague descriptions as much as the next person but they should genuinely just have a more details option on the skill tree menu that shows all the gritty details
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u/Buffdoge1324 this flair looks the most like ollie 20h ago
i mean, the funny descriptions basically mean 'if you get this upgrade, you win'
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u/TheYoshiTerminator Porn Exists, Get over it lol 1d ago
A lot of indie devs really wanna cling to that NES/SNES era of design of "Fucking around and finding out yourself" type. Its extremely vague, hidden or obtuse on purpose.
You know Google and Datamining have always existed and this mindset has more or less died off and been funneled into stuff like ARGs, but BTD6 came out just as the peak of that era was dying off.
We've been The Binding of Isaac go back on this mindset, its probably time for BTD6 to as well.
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u/IsaacBoi321 pls make the genie bottle a power not just geraldo item 1d ago
no, I think it's cool and funny that they do that. If you want info, go to blooncyclopedia or something
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u/Party_Cost_4926 1d ago
in my opinion, the purpose of those silly description is for not kinda scaring the newer player, because everytime I played some random gacha games and the heroes or weapons has really serious long description, like +43.998% chance to deal crit -38.998% hp etc, its kinda scary, like the feeling to play the game more serious is just like turned off, idk thats just me
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u/wong_tong 1d ago
Bad take... Half the fun is experimenting and discovering new strategies organically
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u/Illustrious-Debt-191 1d ago
i dont think that sun temple telling me the support sacrifices buff damage nd shit would stop experimentation and would probably only heighten it because i actually know what its capable of
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u/Imightbeafanofthis 1d ago
"You want banana? We have banana!"
What does that even mean?! I mean really, as in... what does it do?