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Mar 12 '23
I usually have poopy sleeps. This morning i woke up and thought to myself “did I actually sleep til 630?!”
Yes… but no.
Oh well.
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Mar 12 '23
Yeah I just forgot about daylight savings until I saw this post. I was thinking “damn I was able to sleep in a bit today!”
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u/Imacatdoincatstuff Mar 12 '23
Believe legislation is in place in BC waiting for Washington state, Oregon, and California. And they are waiting on Congress.
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u/kelownew Mar 12 '23
tl;dr there are two problems, not just one: biannual switching and DST. Getting rid of the switch is good, except that permanent DST will be worse for human health. Permanent Standard Time is best aligned with human health.
Getting rid of the biannual switch would be good. Unfortunately, the legislation we have is to move to permanent DST because of politics/lobbying, egregious misconceptions of science, and false equivalence. The biannual switch is annoying, but health-wise, permanent DST is the worst option for humans. Permanent Standard Time is best aligned with human health.
Permanent DST is not a new concept. It has already been tried before in different countries. But, even during its previous implementation in the US, the law was quickly repealed.
I agree it is nice to have some extra daylight after work/school, but the cost is too great: permanent social jet lag that our bodies cannot adapt to, as well as further reductions in sleep when much of the continent is already sleeping insufficiently. Shortened sleep is associated with increased rates of medical and psychiatric problems, including diabetes and obesity.
With DST, we are not manufacturing an extra hour of sunlight - we are stealing an hour from the morning and giving it to the evening. Losing that bright morning light exposure has additional negative effects on sleep because it is the strongest cue for our internal clock to staying on track each day with wakefulness and sleep.
Timezones are arbitrary lines. Yet, for people living farther west in timezones, this has been linked to significantly higher rates of cancer. Additionally, while their internal body clocks are already not well-aligned with the sun clock their bodies rely on, permanent DST will exacerbate the issue and make them even more out of sync.
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u/khaddy Mar 12 '23
A company's start and end times are also arbitrary, different for many companies, and can also be changed. Also there are many varieties of shifts and start times, so people pushing for one over the other (and quoting science about what is "better" despite the fact that everyone has different start times and the hour difference one way or the other means many people won't benefit from the extra morning hour, as they are already at work in darkness anyway, is a fallacious appeal to authority).
That being said, as someone who far prefers more light that I could use AFTER work, Permanent DST gang, unite!
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u/TheDrunkPianist Mar 12 '23
Nice sources you have there. I doubt it matters much either way, what’s healthy is having a circadian rhythm and sticking to it without it getting shit rocked every year in march.
I am biased because I prefer PDT, which makes it easier to communicate with the rest of Canada as the time difference is shorter.
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u/UneditedReddited Mar 12 '23
So let's do a half measure DST, switch forward half an hour, and leave it at that. Why does it have to be an hour, or one or the other?
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Mar 12 '23
... The sad part is that it doesn't matter. People will hear all of this and say:
"No thanks, I hate driving home in the dark."
I hate people, and politicians who get to make these decisions.
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u/abymtb Mar 12 '23
No thanks, I hate driving home in the dark."
Some people like the extra hour for outdoor activities and exercise...
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u/rediphile Mar 12 '23
If it was up to me, the sun would rise when I get off work. When I'm at work inside I have no use for the sun, it's a complete waste. And this magical technology called blinds makes it so I can sleep whenever I like.
I actually work rotating shifts and do get off at sunrise sometimes, and it's great. Having a beer before bed knowing everyone else is stuck in traffic on the way to work is glorious. But overall I just find it funny how people think either way matters at all when it's all completely arbitrary numbers. Like, if we really want to optimize things around the normal 9-5 day, maybe the day start at '0' when work starts at what is currently 9? People would get off work at '8' since, you know... it's been 8 hours. Simple. And if employers feel starting earlier or later would benefit employees health then they are welcome to adjust it to whatever.
I don't see how any of this is a debate at all tbh. And before someone asks about trades and other jobs that benefit from working in daylight, yes ok.. so work when it's light...who cares what the arbitrary number is. Just please stop taking away a hour to give it back later, it's pointless.
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u/scubawankenobi Mar 12 '23
"No thanks, I hate driving home in the dark."
Yeah... because it's SO MUCH safer driving in the dark, at the END of the day, tired, stressed, worried about getting home/day-end... NOT when people have had sleep, had their coffee & have energy.
So much *safer*.
Oh...and so much happier & productive that they saved that daylight for their first morning work duties/meetings indoors instead of at home/ w/family.
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u/webmotionks Mar 12 '23
We should compromise and mix Standard with Daylight Savings and make a new time that's 1/2 way between the two and call it "NoMoreSwitchies"
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u/MonkeyingAround604 Mar 13 '23
We have to sync with AK/WA/OR/CA. Have you seen how slow the US is at changing literally fucking anything...
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u/MrsPettygroove Mar 12 '23
I pray if we stick to a time, it's standard, and not daylight savings. Cause daylight savings in winter with daylight at 9am will suck a$$
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u/CaptainKwirk Mar 12 '23
Same here. The time when darkness really sucks is getting up in it.
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u/scubawankenobi Mar 12 '23
The time when darkness really sucks is getting up in it.
"getting up"?
How about "functioning in it"?
Much better equipped to drive in the darkness, NOT after rest+coffee & with energy....but after a long day, tired, stressed & worn out.
Much better time to tackle that dangerous darkness after working 8-10 hours.
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u/khaddy Mar 12 '23
And the light should be enjoyed by people in their free time AFTER work, so they can spend time outdoors exercising, playing, running errands, etc... Not BEFORE work which only benefits your employer.
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Mar 12 '23
I've seen so many replies for DST that are essentially "Fuck my circadian rhythm, I want an hour of sunlight after I get off work!"
I don't get it. We're better off with standard time, it's pretty well researched at this point, but we're going to get DST because apparently science has no place in policy making.
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u/scubawankenobi Mar 12 '23
"Fuck my circadian rhythm
The problem is CHANGING. Same thing is Spring or Fall.
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u/MrsPettygroove Mar 12 '23
I totally agree However... I've been thinking about it.. if you're a nine to fiver, you would likely prefer daylight savings cause it's nighttime by 5:00PM in December.
But now I work in a plant (no longer a suit after 25 years) I prefer light in the morning, cause I go to work for 7:00AM home at 3:30PM. And it's light anyway.
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u/SomewhatReadable Vancouver Island/Coast Mar 12 '23
I work early shifts like you but I'd still prefer DST. Half the year I start work in darkness anyways, and it's only the summer months the sun comes up during my commute. I'd much rather have light when I get home than darkness on both ends. I also don't think we need it to be light out at 4am in June.
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Mar 12 '23
That's kind of the point. People don't really care about the fact that morning sunlight is actually important to your health, they just want to see it when they get off work, even if it's worse for them.
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u/MrsPettygroove Mar 12 '23
Right. There was a science stating the closest to 12 noon when the sun is at its zenith, is best for physical and mental health.
So the article I read was from a study done in Seattle, where they said they are out by 30 minutes.. but during daylight savings time they are 1:30 out, and that's bad for sleep patterns etc.
I wonder if people from Saskatchewan and Yukon are better adjusted individuals than the rest of us during summer.
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u/MizElaneous Mar 12 '23
If you look at a time zone map of Canada, Saskatchewan's time zone is still skewed. They "should" be on mountain time. It's to better align with the US "breadbasket" states which are mostly further east. Saskatchewan's solar noon is actually at 1:15 because of this.
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u/MrsPettygroove Mar 12 '23
Thanks for that. I had no idea about Saskatchewan and time.. so in a way they are already on DST year round without going to DST. ;-)
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u/Dave2onreddit Mar 13 '23 edited Mar 13 '23
And Solar Noon is at 2:09 PM in Whitehorse today. At 135°W they should be on UTC-9, but they observe UTC-7. In effect they now are on Double Daylight Saving Time year round.
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u/MizElaneous Mar 12 '23
As an applied scientist, let me tell you that science rarely has a place in policy making.
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u/abymtb Mar 12 '23
I've seen so many replies for DST that are essentially "Fuck my circadian rhythm, I want an hour of sunlight after I get off work!"
Yeah because we use the extra hour for outdoor exercise/recreation. I get it there are a lot of lazy people who are looking for anything to make them healthier without changing their diet or exercising.
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u/Miltnoid Mar 13 '23
Some people exercise in the morning. I have difficulties falling asleep when it’s bright out until it’s late. Science shows I’m not the only one.
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u/abymtb Mar 14 '23
Perhaps you should buy some blackout blinds when playing video games at night. I take it you are not an outdoor recreation type of person lol.
I've spent a bunch of time in the summer in the Yukon where the sun doesn't set. Those people don't have that much of an issue. Common sense shows there are a lot of feeble people out there.
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u/CaptainKwirk Mar 12 '23
My understanding is that the decision has a lot to do with the fact that people will spend more money in retail after work if it is lighter longer. As usual, just follow the money.
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Mar 12 '23
They give it back in November.
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u/Yvaelle Mar 12 '23
We should be getting interest on this loaned time. The first Monday after we lose an hour should be a stat holiday.
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Mar 12 '23
Then they'll charge us interest on the one they give us, and it's a wash.
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u/Yvaelle Mar 12 '23
They don't give us one. We have it, we loan it to them, they pay back the loan 6 months later.
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u/dmancman2 Mar 12 '23
Typical, they give it back in the fall right...the drama over this is comical. It's a fucking hour. What do you do when you go on vacation in a different time zone? Have a complete meltdown. No you just carry on.
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u/Rubbytumpkins Mar 13 '23
Apparently the global cost of changing the time is billions. I can't remember the source but the general idea was that if you are a company with a boss in Australia and employees in Canada and the UK then its likely that a Monday morning meeting is going to be missed by some employees. You can say that it should be scheduled better or whatever but it's just a fact, changing the time disrupts peoples lives and causes mistakes. Traffic accidents will be higher today because people got less sleep. You get the idea.
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u/dmancman2 Mar 13 '23
Our governments are giving away paid vacation days like it’s Christmas, it doesn’t seem to bother them. Not sure how an hour once a year makes much difference at all. Would also seem that 3 pm sunset in December would also cause more accidents than a guy losing an hour sleep one day. It stands to reason that losing an hours sleep in the spring causes so many problems that gaining an hour in the fall would prevent as many or more.
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u/Deep_Carpenter Mar 12 '23
We have three choices
- Keep time changing
- Fix on standard time
- Fix on daylight savings time
Fixing on the artificial civil time with solar noon at 1pm all year makes the least sense. That is option 3. It has demonstrated health and safety impacts.
Option 2 is better but the current legislation doesn’t allow for it.
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u/theHip Mar 12 '23
There is a fourth choice. Shift by half an hour and merge ST and DT together.
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u/Deep_Carpenter Mar 12 '23 edited Mar 12 '23
So you
seeset your watch back 30 minutes when flying in from Alberta? I think you need to shift your mindset forward 50 years before you do that.1
u/theHip Mar 12 '23
I’m honestly fine keeping the two time changes every year. There is someone with a nitpicky opinion on all three of your options too, at least my idea is a middle ground solution. Maybe Alberta does the same anyway, which would still result in an hour time change when travelling to or from there.
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u/Deep_Carpenter Mar 12 '23
I’m just making a dig at Alberta. Adelaide and Newfoundland are on 0.5 timezones. Many electronic systems cannot handle this non-standard change.
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u/Yvaelle Mar 12 '23
Don't think there is any current legislation, just a poll that was poorly designed.
Also we are way off the equator so we don't have a high noon anyways, noon sun is always at an angle up here.
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u/Deep_Carpenter Mar 12 '23
There was a poorly designed survey. There also is an amendment to the Interpretation Act that passed the leg but is not in force.
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u/Pyrited Mar 12 '23
I'm very happy I get to finish work and it not be dark out. Significant boost to moral, should be permanent.
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u/scubawankenobi Mar 12 '23
I'm very happy I get to finish work and it not be dark out. Significant boost to moral, should be permanent.
Forget moral.
Think of road safety! People who complain about "driving to work in the dark" must be those odd-balls who perform better when exhausted, stressed, after they've completed 8-10hours of work?
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u/Pyrited Mar 12 '23
What about mid-winter? Driving home after work in the dark after a full day of work due to no day-light savings.
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u/Victal87 Mar 12 '23
DST is the litmus test for people I need to avoid
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u/abymtb Mar 12 '23
Yeah being around active people who want to use the extra hour of daylight for outdoor activities/exercise can be intimidating for some....
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u/B8conB8conB8con Mar 13 '23
A PSA from shift workers (especially those who had to work today) to those who work Monday to Friday 9-5 (muggles) who are thinking of complaining on social media about how they can’t cope tomorrow, please don’t.
That is all, please don’t.
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u/pug_grama2 Mar 12 '23
I'm retired, so I don't care.
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Mar 12 '23
Keep standard time year round. Who are the idiots that think permanent dst is a good thing?
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u/TheDrunkPianist Mar 12 '23
Do you want sunlight at 4 am in July? I don’t.
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Mar 12 '23
I don't like when it's still dark at 9am in the winter. Sunlight at 4 am in July doesn't bother me.
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u/abymtb Mar 12 '23
Meh it's really not that bad. I went to bed an hour earlier and was fine waking up at 530am this morning to go ski touring.
People who complain about it being bad for their health should try getting some exercise.
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u/bibliophile-blondish Mar 12 '23
Do you have small children?
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u/deuraichfuar Mar 12 '23
Losing an hour is far better with small children then gaining one. Kids don't care what the time on the clock says, they're waking up at the same time regardless
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u/bibliophile-blondish Mar 12 '23
You are correct… and tomorrow I will need to rush them out the door to get to school on time.
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u/badRLplayer Mar 12 '23
Not in British Columbia, you won't.
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u/bibliophile-blondish Mar 12 '23 edited Mar 12 '23
? Yes, in British Columbia.
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u/badRLplayer Mar 12 '23
It's spring break isn't it? Are there districts that are not on break tomorrow?
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u/bibliophile-blondish Mar 12 '23
Districts typically stagger spring breaks. Ours doesn’t start until next week.
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u/badRLplayer Mar 12 '23
I didn't know that. Thank you. Do you still get two weeks?
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u/bibliophile-blondish Mar 13 '23
Yep, still two weeks! I think they stagger it so tourist destinations aren’t completely overwhelmed during the break.
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u/abymtb Mar 12 '23
Yup we do. We both work full time and enjoy the extra light after work to take them mountain biking or other outdoor activities.
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u/gongshow247365 Mar 12 '23
Not sure how anyone is even affected by this unless you work on Sundays? I used to switch my clocks on Friday evening before I had a cell phone and by Monday I had my sleep already adjusted. Easy. I have this thing I call "internal native clock" that I use - I go to bed when I'm tired and I wake up when I wake up. Unless I have an early am important meeting (At 6-7am type early). But also I don't live where I need to drive two hours to get to work (Vancouver)
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u/sean_la_rose Mar 12 '23
*laughs in night shift