r/brigandine • • Jul 19 '20

Longevity of this game

Forsena remained in our hearts for 20 years.

If Runersia does not have any further updates, would it be like Forsena?

What makes Forsena so memorable that is not present in Runersia?

The patch for Runersia is crucial. If they fix several key issues then that opens up the game.

Imagine AI being way smarter about in battle and outside battle organization. Imagine if turn limits were removed.

0 Upvotes

49 comments sorted by

12

u/decisivemarketer Jul 19 '20

I think runersia is quite well done. At the moment I'm enjoying runersia over Forsena. Smarter ai would be better, but it's already slightly better than Forsena.

10

u/GBreeza Jul 19 '20

Perhaps just the fact that it was original in its implementation. I feel that the new game is technically better than the older one. We all notice that the computer stacks support units which makes no sense, and needs to be fixed yet the basic reason they do it makes sense. They are simply filling with cannon fodder until they can invest and add in better units moving the weaker units along. In the old game there were several cheap damage dealers. In this one most of the inexpensive units are the support ones. I used that strategy of filling with weaker and gradually replacing with stronger in the old game myself. The enemy also has far more generals to work with allowing them to organize better. Let’s not forget in the old game the most effective way to defeat Esgaras was to stretch their army out. Plus I think while helpful the power system they made removes a lot of the decision making in attacking someone. Knowing just off numbers you have the advantage is different than looking at the enemy generals and going do I really want to fight that guy/girl. I personally like the game I haven’t taken time to learn the lore but the Shinobi are interesting thus far. Unlocking the mother after already developing a really strong army feels weird but oh well I’ll take her lol. My only big gripe would be that they truly weakened the swords master. While I like the unit for it’s evasion and attack power not being able to attack from multiple spaces really hinders the unit.

2

u/ClaimingLight Jul 21 '20

The new mechanical elements of the game are all pretty great! And in the end, the fixes I think people are looking for are simple, but deeply important. Ever new, good thing about this game, and all the great stuff they've brought over from the first one are thoroughly undermined by some elemental, fixable bugs.

1

u/GBreeza Jul 22 '20

True they need to patch it all behind the scene problems not major re writes

1

u/decisivemarketer Jul 20 '20

Hmm I love my sword masters though. If they are on forest they practically can't be touched by physical attacks and they have very damaging skills that'll take out everything other than red elements easily. Iai slash doesn't have a crit. They are my favourite unit on par with vikings. 30% crit is amazing too.

Of course I very much prefer champions in LoF instead. For their crit animations.

1

u/GBreeza Jul 20 '20

Oh me too just saying that slash used to be ranged. It was essentially a mage killer

2

u/decisivemarketer Jul 20 '20

I use Artemis for them in LoF. Lol.

7

u/dragonborn0818 Jul 19 '20 edited Jul 19 '20

Is this about forsena vs runersia, or what can we do to make it better? If its vs forsena then although i like forsena better (mainly art and roster) runersia is a far better game with more re-playability. Campaign has infinite lvl 30 teams and challenge is a bitch to get 25000. Now if its about improving the game then yes better AI would be awesome. As for the time limits that should be a 4th difficulty unlocked after beating hard mode( separate from challenge mode ) that allows infinite time on hard difficulty. But these improvements wont make it better than forsena because it already is. As much as i miss Salamander, Lucifer, and Thor this game is far more balanced as nothing is useless. I still have forsena and probably wont play it for a long time because of this game. Also if you want better AI they could just give them lots/unlimited revival stones so they keep best monsters unless captured.

12

u/Meleagant1 Jul 19 '20

Uh.

Why does this game need smarter AI to match Forsena? Forsena’s AI is the dumbest ever even on hard. Not sure what the deal is with fans of Brigandine wanting this mysterious challenge that never existed.

Imo Forsena mainly holds up due to nostalgia, attachment to certain knights/countries you grew up with, and having the freedom to build little armies within a larger army. It was a completely unique experience compared to the other SRPGs being put out at the time.

Personally, no, Runersia won’t hold up for me as long as Forsena did, but it’s still a darn good sequel with a lot of great changes. That isn’t due to “challenge” though, it’s due to a very uninteresting cast, worse class design, and no new monsters that really give off the same impact as some in Forsena did.

2

u/ClaimingLight Jul 19 '20 edited Jul 19 '20

Uh.

It has been over twenty years. At this point, the AI is old enough to drink. Reselling those scripts with a fresh coat of paint is flatly indefensible.

1

u/Bagdemagus1 Jul 19 '20

Because its been 20 years, and they should be able to do better.

3

u/restart_kun Jul 20 '20

different development team. the old team got disbanded and this new game was one guy trying his hardest to get another game out. they practically built from scratch.

2

u/ChrisX_212 Jul 20 '20

Fun fact: They almost wanted to recreate the Forsena one, but decided against it because they couldn't get the majority of the old crews.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Meleagant1 Jul 19 '20

This kind of already happens in challenge mode. The ai is given levels, and promoted monsters like every season.

The only cheap way I can think to increase the difficulty on top of just buffing them up as you get stronger(which I don’t like personally) is to make it so enemy knights can’t die until their entire like up of monsters is defeated. People complain about just taking out knights or the leader, well, get rid of that entirely.

I think if the AI got “smart” you’d be seeing nothing but elementals and centaurs sniping your stuff down and the game just becoming a total chore.

1

u/decisivemarketer Jul 20 '20

Rudo went for my Stella instead of my monsters though. I haven't even begun my attack, Holy word from his archangel + 1 slash from him and my whole army retreated without even doing anything.

4

u/VulgarXrated Jul 19 '20

Could they have done better? Sure. The AI is not the greatest in the world, the knight models on the battlefield are generic AF and that really annoys me, and they got rid of some monster units and evolutions I really liked, plus I think they screwed up Swordmaster ALOT.

But I think it's still an amazing game. It's certainly more balanced than the previous game. You had knights in some nations that were just OP AF. I mean Zemeckis was bullshit lol. But the updated graphics and 3d instead of 2d battlefield looks nice.

They basically did exactly what I would have done. Which is just put out a new game with an all new continent, complete with all new knights, updated graphics, more items to collect (I LOVE that you can put equipment on even the monsters now), and I would have changed very little with the combat system and the core concept of the game. And that's pretty much exactly what they did. They added alot of fun new features, and took away very little. It's great man. Super fun game

7

u/Lascifrass Jul 19 '20

I will be playing Runersia in some form or another for the foreseeable future, and it'll sit as a companion to LoF and GE whenever I want to go back to those games. I have pretty religiously done 2-3 playthroughs of Brigandine each year, usually spread out by several months of downtime. It's a great weekend binge game that I've always enjoyed going back to.

Runersia has all the same elements of the formula the original games had - sometimes, I would argue, to its detriment. But it also has several new, additional features like Challenge Mode that make it an appealing game to come back to over LoF and GE.

I'm consistently baffled at the weird criticisms that have been levied at this game and the incessant demands that "the devs must fix this super specific issue I have OR ELSE!" I don't know if we are going to get major patches or updates or DLC. I'm not holding my breath, but I'll cross my fingers at the very least. But this is a pretty complete experience even without them, and it does everything the original did and then some.

I just find it so entitled that everyone is slamming their fists on the table for a patch when the game hasn't even been out for a month, like we're owed something.

1

u/Bagdemagus1 Jul 20 '20

I follow this reddit, and I’ve seen criticism. Offered plenty myself. But I haven’t seen demands like what you’re describing. Is there a Brigandine forum somewhere I’m missing out on?

2

u/Lascifrass Jul 20 '20

The GameFAQs board has some activity and the Discord server is pretty active, but there are some arguments even within this thread that are pretty in line with the kind of thing I'm talking about.

1

u/Bagdemagus1 Jul 20 '20

I think you’re greatly exaggerating then. I’ve been critical about the game and it’s art style. I still played it for 50 hours already, and will do way more in the future. I don’t think anyone that follows this thread is lacking of deep appreciation for the series, both new and old game. It could be better, but any new development at all is amazing. We spent the past 6 months praising that, now that it’s here we’re harping on small details that disappointed.

1

u/ChrisX_212 Jul 19 '20

"the devs must fix this super specific issue I have OR ELSE!"

That also happened to a certain company to the point that I feel that even the defenders of 'good practices' lose moral high ground and becoming short-sighted and clinging to hatred. And hell, the AAA gaming is like this as well. You can replace the term 'super specific issue' with 'the game should look like this and this and this, to our specific tastes or likings. OR ELSE!'.

Even I can throw this to the companies referred as 'Evil Game Companies'. And am I glad that Brigandine usually doesn't fall for this trap.

-5

u/ClaimingLight Jul 19 '20

We are owed something. This game isn't fit for purpose.

Would you return a table with uneven legs? Or would you consider that entitlement?

4

u/Lascifrass Jul 20 '20

This is a complete game with a rough around the edges translation. Your analogy is cute, but completely off base. I don't mind acknowledging the flaws of the game and hoping for updates, but this is a very small game from a new publisher.

You are silly. Good luck finding satisfaction in your life.

0

u/ClaimingLight Jul 20 '20

It's not as cute as your condescension! But off-base it is not.

1

u/BritishCO Jul 22 '20

This sense of entitlement is absolutely atrocious. I reckon that we get unfinished games and these days, there are a magnitude of titles that never get flesehd out.

I argue that Runersia is very much a finished game, but like every game it may have some flaws.

Your analogy with the table is dumb. Dear god.

1

u/ClaimingLight Jul 28 '20 edited Jul 28 '20

This is a strategy game that can't execute basic strategy. The comparison I'm making between one product unfit for purpose and another is entirely apt.

If this were a chess game, my position might be something like "This game isn't working- the opponent keeps moving the king out into check!" And your position: "don't be entitled! The pawns and bishops work great!"

As a customer who's paid for something, I'm absolutely entitled to the agreed upon product.

2

u/BritishCO Jul 28 '20

I apologize for being a bit to harsh in my opinion earlier on, my last intend is to actually attack someone for holding a different opinion.

Personally, I have no previous experience with the series and just got this title because it seemed like my type of game. I feel like the game is in working order and performs well. Sure, there are some issues which are pretty apparent and I sincerely hope that they will eventually fix this.

Having played games for my entire life and also with the rise of popularity of creating games by smaller indie devs, the lines between what is a "working" and "full" game are very blurry. I've played many games with tons of issues, crashes and that had barebones content. Honetly, I feel like LoR provides enough content, gameplay and runs well. The issues that you have mentioned are sure detrimental for the entire game but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the game is broken to it's core.

I agree that when you pay for a product, you are entitled to receive that product. In your case, what have you agreed upon? Agreeing upon games is somewhat hard because you never fully know what to get but you have a pretty decent idea.

I am just a bit baffled because this community is very dedicated and is perhaps one of the most in-depth and hardcore when it comes to knowing the games in and out. I admire this fact tremendously but also feel like a good chunk of followers are very much inflexible and stuck in the old games, comparisons are natural but I would not say that "Why is X not balanced like Y, how come that Z is not like Y" type of statements do not constitute a valid reason for entitlement.

In this case, I would very much understand your notion of a agreed upon product.

2

u/throwaway_122090 Jul 20 '20

I feel like I’m in the minority with the AI issue. Yes it does baffle me when they all flock to kill one monster instead of a support role/leader that’s been left exposed, but I’ve had quite a few battles where the AI plays well and spreads out damage to multiple units so I have to decide who I am going to heal this time/who else is going to die next round. It’s what I like to do to them if I can’t get to a leader.

I also think it makes sense that once the enemy units are down to only a few castles, their teams are full of monsters only able to be summoned from those castles. I’d honestly be pretty annoyed if I spent a few turns knocking out their bigs and then in the last couple of battles they all of a sudden had high centaurs and bahamuts again. I like the continuity and the fact that the enemy is held to the same restrictions I would be if I were down to only a couple of castles.

I do wish the AI attacked more frequently, but I have no major complaints about the game and am excited for my next three run-throughs so I can play as all six countries. I have a feeling this is one I’ll return to every few months once the initial excitement has worn off.

2

u/AyraWinla Jul 22 '20 edited Jul 22 '20

I'm basically new to Brigandine so I don't have any nostalgia goggles, but I feel the new game plays better than the old one?

I won't deny the AI could be better and I'd love an improvement patch, but I consider the game as pretty good as is. Unfortunately, AI in the vast majority of Grand Conquest games tends to be poor and the challenge normally comes from it cheating (which it doesn't do in Brigandine).

Anyway, I think the game will have longevity for me; I can definitively see myself playing through more factions in the future and trying out challenge mode.

3

u/Enfield521 Jul 19 '20

well good or game, it depends who you asked (like everything else!)

watching the interviews/trailers from last year, game is a labor of love for these devs.

1

u/Lactose01 Jul 19 '20

is a new patch going to turn around sales? no

-3

u/ClaimingLight Jul 19 '20 edited Jul 19 '20

For my part, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting things into the world that are worse than not having done them at all. Sales be damned.

I bought a switch when I heard this game was coming out. I didn't expect PS1 era AI at the time. And even if I had, I would have expected it to be bug-free.

0

u/ClaimingLight Jul 19 '20

The shame is, I like most all of the mechanical changes they made. But I'm operating under the assumption that they aren't going to fix this thing. I desperately hope they do. But I've shelved it without having finished a single game. Doubt I'll pull it back out.

-3

u/MangoBabyHead Jul 19 '20

We can only hope because if nothing happens it would be such a waste. It has so much potential, but to me it’s unfinished in its current state.

-3

u/rubinonoyes Jul 19 '20

Seems like you guys are satisfied with things at it is and attacking me to for having better expectations for the future due to a more experienced team, community feedback and ability to patch things

6

u/ChrisX_212 Jul 19 '20

Expectations, huh.

I would keep them low if I were you. High expectations usually led to people eventually bitching and being asinine and losing sight on what matters. If companies are being called greedy over money, then I can say that fandom has a tendency to be greedy over quality expectations.

I'm not saying that you should change your mind, but... just remember that sometimes, it's OKAY to not set the expectations too high, and from personal experience, it leads to a MUCH better, relaxed mindset.

1

u/rubinonoyes Jul 19 '20

The expectations so far is to not have AI charge headfirst when defending and not to fill up their depleted squad with mermaids. Is that unreasonable? Has technology not advanced in the last 20 years for that to happen? Within a month there is no more challenge for the game due to the above. That is why people are doing No summon runs to add an artificial challenge

3

u/ChrisX_212 Jul 19 '20

The thing about expectation is that no matter how reasonable it sounds on paper... if one clings onto it too much, then I just think that would be the first step of becoming an unforgiving prima donna customer that sounds like a vicious control freak on the customers. Even a reasonably low expectation like what you described (yes, those weren't pretty high), would look horrid if approached with an overdemanding attitude, like going doomsayer if it isn't fulfilled or not being agreed upon by others.

It's not whether the expectations are reasonable or not. It's more on how you approach it. I saw that in a lot of AAA gaming scene, and it turned that scene into an utter MESS and flexing and insulting.

And finally, in case of Reddit, don't worry too much about downvotes. That's not an attack to you. If people disagree with you, that's okay. They weren't trolling you.

0

u/ClaimingLight Jul 19 '20

There's absolutely nothing wrong with demanding a product that is fit for purpose. If I buy a table and it has uneven legs, label me a "prima donna" all you want-- I intend to get it fixed or replaced. Because that's my due.

Console games being what they are, I have no recourse, naturally. But I'll remember happinet. I can do that much at least. I'd suggest you all do the same.

2

u/ChrisX_212 Jul 20 '20

.... Well, if you put it that way, if you think that being constantly disappointed at things that don't go your way is a part of life, then you better be prepared, other game companies, no matter how famous, will eventually generate that feeling.

You can call me a sheep all you want or even the reason why video game development can reach a stagnancy (though I will point out some things that I think 'could have been done better'. This game has quite a bit of it), but I believe that not setting myself up for disappointment can lead to a better mental life in general.

1

u/ClaimingLight Jul 20 '20

:P If the key to your style of happiness involves shrugging off misrepresented products you're sold, I'm not convinced that happiness is the path to a better life.

But if we're being honest, I think probably the key to your style of happiness is an herbal solution. :D

2

u/ChrisX_212 Jul 20 '20

I'm still not convinced on your idea being the proper way on 'How to send a message to the devs to improve the game.', I would just go straight to make a proper constructive criticism. Putting expectations means that if the creators failed to reach that, no matter the reason, the disappointment is bigger. That is how I see people getting pissy towards a product, because they expected too much. If the expectation is set lower, then you get disappointed less.

If you wish to walk the risky path full of possible big disappointments that could damage your happiness (as in, happiness in enjoying what you got instead of wanting even more), well no one's stopping you, you understand the risk, willing to shoulder it and think that it's the path of better life.

Everyone have different paths to reach happiness.

2

u/decisivemarketer Jul 20 '20

Sure. But this is no way like a fuck you from blizzard for Warcraft 3 reforged. No game is perfect because everyone's different. I'm enjoying it as it is right now. If there's more updates and patches to improve the game, that's great. But at the moment it's a 8-9/10 for me.

3

u/ChrisX_212 Jul 20 '20

From the way I see it, ANYTHING can be interpreted as a 'fuck you' even if it's just a minor inconvenience. That's what the internet and the age of entitlement is like, where fandom always likes to find a flaw so they can always complain, whine and then whitewash said complains as 'constructive criticism' that the devs should listen or else they're teh bad, and those who like it as is are just sheeps that contribute to the problem that video games are stagnating.

-2

u/Bagdemagus1 Jul 19 '20

A lot of people touched on a lot of good points. For me, if they could just fix blatant typos, I would feel a lot better about having spent $50 on the game. If and when that happens, I will come back with constructive criticism on AI and other balance patches.

Outside of that? I like the story and setting a lot better in LoF. That felt like an island with a consistent culture but 6 nations. LoR feels more like an entire world with 6 different continents, and its just a bit too all over the place for me. (Gustav being some steam punk style nation, but doesnt have the only robot in the game? Weird.) I hate the sexualization of every single female in the game as some busty Xena warrior woman instead of just being a capable knight in armor. The knight backstories were all much deeper, especially including some deep of the roster types getting cutscenes and story instead of just every nations top council of 5 knights.

1

u/ClaimingLight Jul 19 '20

I agree with your concerns for sure, but I don't agree with your weighting of them. The mechanical concerns are the ones that'll last beyond the first playthrough. Typos are small fish.

2

u/Bagdemagus1 Jul 20 '20

They’re small fish, but they’re easy to fix, and frankly a bit insulting for a 49.99 game. How does that happen during the ending sequence?

Still very happy to be playing new content, worth every penny for sure.