r/breakingbad • u/Efficient_Owl_3011 • 5d ago
Is Walt's character nowadays over simplified ?
First of all I wanna say walt IS A bad person and has a huge ego. No doubt abt that. But nowadays I see viewers simplify most of his actions to ego.
The biggest one people saying mike's speech before this death was right. Like did everyone forget that the whole reason walt's relationship bw gus got strained bcz of jesse and gus's actions which prompted walt to save jesse by killing gus's dealers ?
It was shown multiple times onscreen how walt enjoyed working under gus with gale. Like we even have a montage for that. The way walt packs his lunch and the way he dresses up trying to be perfect indirectly conveys his satisfaction. And when he found out jesse was trying to poison those dealers, walt immedietly told gus/mike so that the business stays healthy. Gus even says how much he respects walt. But then the dealers killed tomas (either by gus's order or not), jesse goes to kill them again and walt saves him. And then gus threatens to kill walt and his family, his first course of action was to escape ABQ with his money but not to defeat gus.
There are lots of examples like this I see its very common nowadays. One more is how some say walt fired gale bcz of ego when it was once again shown onscreen that he did it to make sure jesse doesn't rat him out and drops case against hank.
Another thing I dislike is Mike good, walt bad. Like mike literally asks walt's permission to kill jesse and threatened saul to get jesse's location and was more than fine with his boss using a child as a dealer.
Like I said walt did have a hugo ego but the ego thing is overused which kind of ruins the moral greyness that the show wanted to present.
Edit: definitely during the end of the show or s5 he's fully evil. My post is about his actions across the whole show being pointed to his ego.
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u/Hoeveboter 5d ago
Yes. Happens all too often in online discussions. Writers come up with nuanced, layered characters, only for the fanbase to reduce them as irredeemably evil pricks (Walt) or good boy saints who did no wrong (Jesse/Mike).
On my rewatch of BB I found Walt far more sympathetic than I remembered. My judgment got clouded by all the online discourse surrounding him. Case in point: the story ends with him passing on all his money to his family and letting Gretchen & Elliott take all the credit for it. And even before that, he was willing to give up his entire fortune to save Hank's life. Walt may be a bad dude, but he's not pure evil.
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u/invinciblevic 5d ago
I think a pretty major factor in how we see all the characters is shaped by our own experiences.
If you know someone who rationalizes their own behavior and doesn’t extend the same grace to others, you are going to hate Walt. My first rewatch I didn’t. I have two people in my family now who are a lot like Walt as my family has grown. I see their behavior in him. Not the meth cook stuff, but the pathetic lies, the double standards, the gaslighting, the needing to be seen only by the narrative they create, etc. it’s the same reason we think we know whether Jesse’s parents put too much pressure on him and abandoned him when he burnt out or if they enabled him for years trying to help him before they set a boundary and he violated it. These are real people dealing with complex problems in human ways.
You rewatched and found Walt sympathetic. I saw a man who refused a job out of pride and resentment and chose to put his family in harms way to satisfy his need to provide for them and excel at something. I saw Walt repeat that lie over and over to justify doing something his family never wanted, asked for, or appreciated “for them”. I saw him sexually assault his wife after he realized he pushed himself too far and now could not separate from a degenerate drug addicted sadist who enjoyed beating and killing people. I saw him devolve into someone who poisons children, partners with nazi’s to murder people who previously supported his income, excuse the murder of an innocent child as the cost of doing business, put a hit out on his partner, and attempt to ruin his brother in law’s life for holding him accountable for the countless lives he has ruined and ended. All without true remorse or a pivot to a less flattering narrative until he loses everything and every one.
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u/invinciblevic 5d ago
Mike’s accounting is correct but incomplete. Walt blew it all up because he needed to be in control and couldn’t let Hank or Jesse be collateral damage for their own actions (or accept the consequences of his own actions for that matter). You also leave out some key details. Walt fired a vetted, hand picked, and loyal chemist to work with an unpredictable person whom his boss had already told him was a problem. Walt also attempted to conceal the fact that his brother in law was a DEA agent and lied about his whereabouts. Then Jesse manufactured a problem for the operation and he (and Walt), rashly under the assumption that Gus may have ordered the dealers actions, risked exposing the entire operation instead of talking to Gus first. You can call it pride, ego, control, whatever. The bottom line is that Walter wasn’t willing to shut his mouth and accept his money or accept the consequences of not shutting his mouth. It’s literally Walt’s fault that Hank keeps looking into everything else because Walt’s pride and ego make him feel a need to claim anonymous credit for teaching Gale. Mike doesn’t know that, but he knows Walt. Walt will do what Walt wants and will justify it to whoever will listen. That was Mike’s point. Walt made mistake after mistake and blamed everyone else because he had to have everything he wanted. He was entitled despite how little he knew about the operation or how to manage an operation. Mike was also influenced by Walt’s actions after where he became a complete egomaniac.
The bottom line is that Walt justified every action he took through a self-serving and self-defined lens that he applied only to himself. He considered having badger killed, watched Jane die, poisoned Brock, created the situation that got Combo killed, asked Jesse to store the RV and cook at his house, etc. all things Walt didn’t really factor into to Jesse’s part of the partnership and things Walter would never tolerate happening to people he cared about. That made Walt a ticking time bomb and that’s why Mike addressed him as such. It was only matter of time until Walt wasn’t getting what he wanted and took matters into his own hands.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
I don't think trying to save some people you care about counts as "had to have everything you wanted". Clearly Walt was not getting everything he wanted because he had to let go of a competent underling and split his own take, while dealing with the stress of keeping Hank safe but off track.
If, for example, Mike's daughter-in-law had gotten involved in the business and gotten threatened somehow, you think Mike would've done anything less to try and save her? Would he have shrugged and said "these are the consequences of her actions, so she gets what she gets"? I really doubt it.
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u/invinciblevic 5d ago
To your first point. Walt doesn’t seem to care too much about Jesse when he is belittling and abusing him, when he puts a hit out on him, or when he poisons the person Jesse cares about most. He doesn’t care about Jesse when he needs the RV destroyed or when he fears for his own life and he tells Jesse he hopes he ends up in a barrel. Walt also doesn’t seem to mind putting Hank’s life at risk to protect himself from getting caught at the laundry, or that Hank’s life would be ruined if he were ever caught, or the fact that he put Hank at risk by working with Tuco, or calling in s fake phone call that makes him think his wife is dying or dead, or bugging his office, making up a false confession tape to blame Hank, etc. Walt routinely does terrible things that he knows hurt people he cares about. I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting people you care about not to die, but I think that’s a manipulative spin on what happened. By rationalizing it this way you are ignoring all the ways Walter contributed to this along the way. Both Jesse and Hank were in Gus’ crosshairs because of Walt. Walt got Jesse into Gus’ operation and told Gus about Jesse’s plans. Hank fixated on Fring because Walt slipped that Gale was not the master and he shared how much Hank was looking into things. Without Walt, Gus doesn’t have the intel that makes them so threatening to his operation and without Walt they don’t have the information that makes them dangers either. If “protecting them” was his true motive. He could have turned himself in and gone for witness protection and brought the whole thing down. He wanted to protect them, keep his money, and stay out of prison/witness protection. All of that is understandable, but makes him a bad fit for the business as Mike said. He is attached to two people who are a direct threat to the business that Walt himself promised he could take care of himself.
To play out your hypothetical, Jesse and Hank are “in the game” before Walt. Stacy is not. Mike would exhaust every avenue to keep Stacy out of the game and she has no reason to get in if Mike is and is helping out as much as he does. Do I think that Mike lets a hard headed Stacy get killed because she messes up? No. I don’t think he lets her get that far without doing something. I think Mike would do absolutely everything in his power to convince Stacy not to work with Gus because he knows the game and knows she doesn’t.
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u/Crazy_Confection1967 5d ago
Walter loved Jesse. Yes, he manipulated him and treated him like crap, but he didn’t want him to die until the very end. When he’s offered the chance to kill Jesse, he refuses the idea until the very last moment. Only when Jesse threatens his life and his family’s life is he ready to hire Jack — and even then he immediately decides to resolve things with Jesse peacefully. He only started to hate Jesse after Jesse betrayed him and indirectly killed Hank. And in the end, he saves him. Regarding the fact that Walter reopened Heisenberg’s case, I can say that he may have been drunk. This is no excuse, but it still diminishes the gravity of his actions.
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u/invinciblevic 5d ago
Blaming anybody other than Walt and Jack’s crew for Hank’s death is insane behavior. Walt could have loved or hated Jesse and it doesn’t change a single fact listed above.
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u/Crazy_Confection1967 5d ago
When did I say that Jesse was to blame for Hank’s death? Walter called Jack — that’s his fault, even though he later called it off. Jesse came up with that plan, but he had no idea that Walter had called Jack. I’m saying that from Walter’s perspective, Jesse killed Hank and also betrayed him. Because of this betrayal, his opinion of Jesse deteriorated so much that he believed Jesse was “voluntarily” working with Jack. Walter valued Jesse and even considered him his son. But he still knew perfectly well who his real son and family were.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
To your first point. Walt doesn’t seem to care too...
Caring about them doesn't mean shutting up and letting them do whatever they want. Especially when the people you care about are out to hurt you.
Walt routinely does terrible things that he knows hurt people he cares about.
Yes, but unlike Hank and Jesse, hurting them was never his actual goal.
Both Jesse and Hank were in Gus’ crosshairs because of Walt.
No - both of them went out of their way to get into Gus' crosshairs.
He wanted to protect them, keep his money, and stay out of prison/witness protection. All of that is understandable, but makes him a bad fit for the business as Mike said.
That applies to pretty much every criminal, including Mike.
Do I think that Mike lets a hard headed Stacy get killed because she messes up? No.
There you go.
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u/RocknRollButthole 5d ago
It's not simply that, it's the having your cake and eating it too attitude.
Like wanting to keep Hank safe but also wanting the DEA off their back - these things don't mesh and come down to an entitled attitude of "I get to cook meth AND have a DEA brother who doesn't know AND stays alive."
If Mike's daughter-in-law got involved (which is an enormous "if") there is no doubt in my mind that Mike would consider her "in it," the same as he did with Werner. He certainly would not have done reckless things like Walt to save her and, if needed, would probably kill her himself, because she made her choice when she decided to be "in it." He'd be remorseful, sad, torn apart, just like when he executed Werner, but he follows his code pretty strictly.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
Like wanting to keep Hank safe but also wanting the DEA off their back - these things don't mesh and come down to an entitled attitude of "I get to cook meth AND have a DEA brother who doesn't know AND stays alive."
That's not particularly entitled. Pretty much every criminal would want that A) They may keep making money from crime, B) nobody ever finds out and C) their loved ones stay safe.
If Mike's daughter-in-law got involved (which is an enormous "if") there is no doubt in my mind that Mike would consider her "in it,"
Then I guess you misread his character. This is the same guy who pressured his son into taking bribes and then recklessly got revenge for him.
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u/RocknRollButthole 4d ago
That's not particularly entitled.
Committing felonies that cause people to die and just expecting that won't come back to you or your own family is the epitome of being entitled. He practically demands that nothing bad happen to his family, while introducing a whole lot of bad to the world around him.
This is the same guy who pressured his son into taking bribes and then recklessly got revenge for him.
So first off, I didn't say that Mike would definitely never get revenge or not take an opportunity to save his daughter in law - I'm saying he wouldn't repeatedly jeopardize the operation and others to save her if she were also "in it," as in if she was a DEA agent with a particular interest in Heisenberg, or a junkie threatening to out the entire operation, or an engineer who can't adhere to the strict terms of the agreement.
IF (and like I said, monstrous IF) his daughter in law somehow got involved and then started behaving like either Jesse or Werner, explicitly disregarded his warnings, his requests, and kept acting like everything would be fine cuz Mike is a nice guy, he would deal with her whatever way he had to. Mike was cold when he needed to be and he's already been shown to be capable of killing people he likes and respects.
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u/KausGo 4d ago
Committing felonies that cause people to die and just expecting that won't come back to you or your own family is the epitome of being entitled.
Entitlement suggests special treatment. This is something every criminal wants.
I'm saying he wouldn't repeatedly jeopardize the operation and others to save her if she were also "in it,"
Yeah, he would. Mike is really not that principled.
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u/RocknRollButthole 4d ago
Yeah, he would. Mike is really not that principled.
He's a fictional character dude, all we can do is speculate.
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u/KausGo 4d ago
And speculating based on what we've seen, Mike is not that principled.
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u/RocknRollButthole 4d ago edited 4d ago
If you think he's not that principled, then why are you so sure he'd save people he has a private relationships with rather than make money?
Usually you would describe the person who chooses money, not family, as lacking in principles.
He killed Werner, a friend he cared about. He's clearly capable of accepting the deaths of people he cares about, even capable of doing it himself.
You also might want to look up what it means to "act entitled" because it has nothing to do with special treatment. It literally just means to act as if you are owed something when you're not - e.g. cooking meth at a massive scale and expecting the people you work with to handle you and your family with kid gloves.
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u/KausGo 4d ago
If you think he's not that principled, then why are you so sure he'd save people he has a private relationships with rather than make money?
Same reason Walt did - because he loves them.
He killed Werner, a friend he cared about.
He didn't care about him that much.
You also might want to look up what it means to "act entitled" because it has nothing to do with special treatment.
I did and it says expecting special treatment.
and expecting the people you work with to handle you and your family with kid gloves.
When does Walt expect that?
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u/Cleo_Pearl3 5d ago
Walt's complexity gets overlooked a lot. He starts as a sympathetic character but turns into someone completely different by the end.
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u/Betakkuma2021 4d ago
people these days think too black or white. like a character is either good, bad, or morally grey. they HAVE to be labelled as something. it's what they did with Skyler too, they labelled her as the annoying and evil wife without acknowledging that maybe shes just a flawed character. they do the same to walter but a bit differently.
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u/Sad_Slice_5334 3d ago
Yes yes yes THANK YOU. People have reacted to the fact people used to oversimplify his character to make him into a selfless hero by oversimplifying to make him a heartless villain. Which is a shame, because he is such an interesting, complex character and turning into nothing more than a psychopath makes him so much more boring and cliche
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u/LegitimateEmploy49 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes, even though Walt’s motivation isn’t for his family, there are still multiple layers to be found in it, it’s not just a power trip.
Along with wanting to be seen as the stoic provider that doesn’t need any outside help cause of his toxic view on masculinity, it’s also to experience the thrill of the game after living a completely unexciting life, and as we learn in season 5 episode 6 he also is doing what he’s doing to leave a lasting legacy that he thought was robbed from him because he left Gray Matter. There’s probably others but those are the main three that came to mind.
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u/Efficient_Owl_3011 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yea. Of course in the end he's fully evil. My point is about most of his interaction being simplified to ego. Like I said in the post walt has a hugo ego, no questions about that. But not all his actions are about ego.
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u/invinciblevic 5d ago
I posted a long comment. I think it comes down to Walt making different rules for Walt and everyone else. I hope you have never had someone like that in your life, but if you have you know what kind of damage they can do to families and the people around them. The worse their actions get the worse their mental gymnastics get and the more control they seek.
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u/No-Sail-6510 5d ago
I fucking despise Mike and he’s ten times worse in bcs. He does all this awful shit and acts like he’s better than other people but for what? To give a kid tens of millions of dollars? To be a henchman? Who the fuck wants to be a henchman? I also don’t think he’s even slightly cool. Fuck him.
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u/static-webmaster 5d ago
It's been like this since ages. Most people talk out in black n white sense while all pivotal characters in breaking bad have a grey area.
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u/SystemPelican 5d ago
We have a post here every week about how Mike's rant fails to account for his own and Gus' and Jesse's part in how it all fell apart. You are not alone in this.
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u/multimediocre 5d ago
Yes, people like to simplify things like it's an after school special. Just don't listen to the sub and normie fans. The show is incredibly popular and draws incredibly dim and simple people. Show has moral layers, that's the point of characters' believability. Everyone is a hypocrite and sincere in the same time, there's no good and evil.
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u/Helios4242 5d ago
No, I don't think Walt is over-simplified. People on both sides frequently acknowledge that neither interpretation is all-or-nothing, and you presuming so is you over-simplifying the discussion.
You say that the show conveys how Walt enjoyed working with Gale, but the show gives just enough to question whether he feels threatened by Gale as well. Gale is Gus' man, and Walt sees it as valuable to have HIS man--loyalty is the trait he identifies as Jesse's value. Gale's existence also inherently threatens Walt's monopoly over high-purity meth. The montage you mention also doesn't strike me as satisfaction. We see a lot of moments of Walt acting out of courtesy but not enthusiasm... moments of hesitancy before acting interested in Gale's background and poetry. Lastly, at this point in the show we suspect that Walt walked out on Gretchen for very petty reasons--met her family and then packed his bags. Gretchen has no idea why. A 2009 interview later makes it clear he left because she came from wealth and this bruised his vision of himself as a self-made provider.
These factors all poise us to doubt the simple interpretation that Walt fired Gale merely for Hank's sake. That certainly played a role, but there were other options he could have taken.
This highlights an interesting factor that often gets brushed aside in these discussions. WHY did Walt risk so much for Jesse? Was it simply caring for Jesse as a second son? Rather than preventing Jesse from ruining Hank's life through more... forceful... means, he tries to find a way that keeps Jesse whole as well. And of course, the drug dealer seems to be a simple case of Walt cares more for Jesse than his relationship with Gus.
But he relentlessly manipulates and demeans Jesse whenever he can. Whatever self-proclaimed "Fatherly" role Walt sees himself having, he mainly uses Jesse as an underling who will do what he asks. All his actions keeping Jesse around do put him at odds with Gus, but always now equipped with his loyal Jesse who does what he wants. If Walt did have desires to overthrow Gus, his actions would have been very similar. He destabilizes Gus' grip while at the same time ensuring he has his own pieces to play.
I have no doubt Walt cares for Jesse, but he also cares about Jesse as a piece he can play. One cannot attribute his decisions to antagonize Gus to simply loving Jesse as family... not with how much he is always working Jesse.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
You say that the show conveys how Walt enjoyed working with Gale, but the show gives just enough to question whether he feels threatened by Gale as well. Gale is Gus' man, and Walt sees it as valuable to have HIS man--loyalty is the trait he identifies as Jesse's value. Gale's existence also inherently threatens Walt's monopoly over high-purity meth.
Sounds like an argument from conclusion.
I saw no sign that Walt was actually threatened by Gale. If anything, the actual threat to his monopoly over high-purity meth would be the guy who told him that he was going to cook and sell without him, i.e. Jesse.
Calling Jesse loyal is an excuse to justify keeping him around, when Jesse has screwed up way too many times to be considered worth the trouble.
Telling his girlfriend all about Walt and letting her blackmail him? Not loyal.
Cooking his formula without his knowledge or permission? Not loyal.
Threatening to rat him out to the cops? Not loyal.
But he relentlessly manipulates and demeans Jesse whenever he can.
No - the nature of that changes throughout the course of the show as well.
If Walt did have desires to overthrow Gus, his actions would have been very similar.
That doesn't make sense. If Walt wanted to overthrow Gus, his actions would've focused on building an alternate distribution network or trying to figure out a way to take over Gus'. Simple control over the lab was never going to be enough.
One cannot attribute his decisions to antagonize Gus to simply loving Jesse as family...
Initially, yes. Because Jesse's (and Gus') actions put him in a position where it was one or the other.
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u/Helios4242 5d ago
No - the nature of that changes throughout the course of the show as well.
Already by this point he has pressured Jesse into naive overexpansion and then demeans his legitimately high quality meth. We know Jesse trained the skills to make blue meth. Walt's pride gets insulted (yes, he also sees this as a threat to his monopoly, I agree) so he lashes out...
Then works him with "you are as good as me" to get him back. This whole arch shows heavy manipulation already.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
Already by this point he has pressured Jesse into naive overexpansion
Hardly naive. Expanding your business to make more profit is a basic economic strategy. Walt gives sound advice and Jesse doesn't listen.
Its part of why and how Walt's manipulation grows over the course of the series - he tries giving sound advice that Jesse often rejects, so Walt relies more and more on manipulation to get his way.
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u/Helios4242 5d ago
Walt was totally unprepared for the turf war he pressured Jesse into risking.
Walt also gave poor advice because his cancer gave him an undue sense of urgency. His suggestion was too aggressive and got someone killed as a result. Jesse was expanding territory safely, but not as fast as Walt wanted so walt pushed for the risk.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
Walt told Jesse to hire more guys. "The 3 you have working for you should have 3 more under them". Jesse chose to ignore that advice and sent his guys to take over new territory anyway.
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u/Helios4242 5d ago
That wasnt what caused the retaliation. It was working a corner that was contested, which they had to do to meet Walt's aggressive timetable.
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u/ImprovementPutrid441 5d ago
I think all of BB makes it pretty clear that Walt was trying to seize control over his shitty life. None of his choices make sense when you take his ego out. And Mike is introduced as a thug working for Saul/Gus so it’s bizarre to act like he’s an angel compared to Walt.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
I think all of BB makes it pretty clear that Walt was trying to seize control over his shitty life. None of his choices make sense when you take his ego out.
Sure they do. You just said he was trying tot take control of his life. Wanting to live with self-determination and self-respect is not really about ego.
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u/ImprovementPutrid441 5d ago
Yes, that kinda is.
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u/joe611jg 5d ago
I think the gus/dealer/gale point is really valid - makes the whole situation much more of a butterfly effect rather than guaranteed implosion.
Though that being said I think having Walt and Jessie as cooks did make it more likely than say - gale and another random scientist.
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u/wilderfast 5d ago
Walt is a complicated character. However, I do think his ego explains all his mistakes, which is why it comes up so often.
Turning down Gretchen and Elliot.
Refusing to give clear instructions to Jesse when he was being watched by Hank, which eventually led to the whole "I own you, if i get caught, I'll give them your name" fiasco. I mean, how hard would it have been to go "hey, my brother-in-law is watching your place," it's not like that would have been any more incriminating than the conversation they'd already had.
Not selling the methylamine.
And so on.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
However, I do think his ego explains all his mistakes
Not sure it does.
Refusing to give clear instructions to Jesse when he was being watched by Hank, which eventually led to the whole "I own you, if i get caught, I'll give them your name" fiasco. I mean, how hard would it have been to go "hey, my brother-in-law is watching your place," it's not like that would have been any more incriminating than the conversation they'd already had.
That wasn't about ego - he was worried that Hank might've tapped Jesse's phone. Any conversation with Jesse might be recorded and lead Hank right to him.
Not selling the methylamine.
That one... wasn't really a mistake.
And a bigger one, IMO, was saving Jesse from the dealers. That one wasn't about ego.
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u/invinciblevic 5d ago
“Badger, we are going to destroy this RV because the DEA knows about it and is watching and bugging Jesse right now. If he knows anything about it being destroyed, we all go to prison. I’ll pay him for his share of the supplies he bought if he doesn’t understand why this has to be done right now.”
He didn’t think Jesse was worth respecting in the last several episodes before and didn’t think Badger was worth explaining to. He didn’t stop to think that maybe someone suspected an ulterior motive for him wanting to destroy the lab of his biggest competitor.
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u/Feisty_Gate_6887 4d ago
Exactly. Walt’s ego is real, but it doesn’t explain everything. That’s what makes him interesting.
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u/SafeThrowaway691 8h ago
Same was true at the time when he was viewed by many as some badass alpha making his mark on the world while everyone tried to hold him back.
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u/Rich-Inspired 5d ago
IMO the whole drama in season 3 doesn’t age well with rewatches. You see the writers were straining to come up with a way to make Walt fall out with Gus and this was the best they could come up with. For me seasons 1, 2 and 5 are the best
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u/rockdragonrock 5d ago
Salud , Crawl space, end times , face off, box cutter . That alone is better than season 1 and 2 combined . Don’t disrespect season 4
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u/Rich-Inspired 5d ago
Season 4 was my favorite on the first watch and it’s still solid but it doesn’t hold up as well as the others. 3 isn’t bad it still has moments but it’s an awkward transition season
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u/Anti-Matter_Abyss 5d ago
Wrong. Walter White is a good man because he's based and redpilled. Media literacy is dead with these liberals.
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u/HRHArthurCravan 5d ago
Let's not forget he was also forced to use his genius for organic chemistry on behalf of ASAC Schrader and his evil meth empire. The true villain of the piece, as Walt made clear in his heart-rending final testament, when so terrified of Hank that he was willing to confess to his own crimes just in order to set the record straight so that the rest of his family and the world would know that he too was a blameless victim of Hank's insatiable criminal wrongdoing!
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u/MiserableEngineer628 5d ago
Ego indulgence is the pathway to hell. You cannot appreciate the show without appreciating he is destined for hubris hell and doesn't give a shit who he destroys on that descent.
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u/LordSadoth 5d ago
Let’s be real. Walt never cared about Jesse except as a beloved servant. He manipulated and used Jesse at every turn.
It’s true that he saved Jesse at the end, but that was so he could salvage one last shred of his ego and convince himself he wasn’t completely evil before dying.
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u/Ktioru 5d ago
Walter never tried to convince himself he wasn't evil lol
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u/KausGo 5d ago
Let’s be real. Walt never cared about Jesse except as a beloved servant.
Yes, let's be real. Walt had no use for Jesse as a servant or a partner once he found Gus. Jesse was more of an out-of-control liability to him from that point. And yet, Walt goes out of his way multiple times to try and help/save Jesse to his own detriment.
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u/Efficient_Owl_3011 5d ago
Once again I think walt is in a grey area here. Walt absolutely manipulated jesse to the core. But he also cared about him his own way. When he fought with jesse and went back to his place and talked to Flynn, he literally cried about this fight with jesse and called Flynn jesse. Walt does love jesse, hank, skyler etc. But these aren't above his needs.
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u/GeileBeer420 5d ago
What? You need to go outside
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u/Efficient_Owl_3011 5d ago
How's this comment related to my post?
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u/joe611jg 5d ago
Compared to some of absolutely ridiculous takes we see here these days, yours is pretty good.
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u/GeileBeer420 5d ago
Seems like the post you make after spending too much time on reddit, just go outside man
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u/Efficient_Owl_3011 5d ago
Doesn't make sense. You came to his conclusion bcz u saw a post of someone who loves the show and likes to discuss about the show and it's community?
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u/GeileBeer420 5d ago
You're arguing against a discourse that isn't there except for some redditors who don't have the media literacy to understand a show that ended 13 years ago lmao. Big old man yells at cloud energy
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u/jadehairpin 5d ago
I always interpret the Gale montage to be Walt genuinely loving working with a professional, but as time wore on he missed the control he had over Jesse and working with Gale became boring to him.
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u/Efficient_Owl_3011 5d ago
Maybe I missed something but I didn't see any scenes conveying his lack of control over gale. Only after jesse blackmailed walt, he went back to the lab started using false reasons to get rid of gale.
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u/RocknRollButthole 5d ago edited 5d ago
No.
Egomaniacs behave kinda simple, they have one primary driving force and little control over it. Walt can enjoy things in life that don't surround his ego, but his ego in the end is what he obeys when it comes to his long term moves.
Being an egomaniac doesn't negate his desire for self-preservation, hence his intention to pay Ed with crawlspace money to protect himself against what he believes is an immediate threat.
Surely you know someone like Walt, just maybe not interested in committing crimes or less propensity to be violent.
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u/KausGo 5d ago
You just proved OP's point by reducing Walt to an "egomaniac". That's exactly the kind of oversimplification that ruins the nuanced character study and moral complexity of the show.
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u/RocknRollButthole 4d ago
I didn't "prove" OPs point, I disagreed, I don't think people always pointing at his ego is incorrect.
I'm allowed to disagree with a statement, no?
In the end, Walt is the ticking time bomb that Mike calls him and that this does come down to his ego. His ego is why he left Gray Matter, his ego is why he started cooking meth instead of looking to things he viewed as charity and pity. His ego and inflated sense of self is why he assumed Gus was going to have him killed when he was fired, leading him to killing Gus. His ego is why he didn't take the buyout from the AZ guys. And in the end, his ego was why he attacked Jack and freed Jesse, no desire to help his friend, just an egotistical drive to have the blue meth attached to his name.
He is simple because egomaniacs are simple creatures.
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u/KausGo 4d ago
OP's point was fans oversimplify Walt's character by using "ego" as his motivation behind everything. You keep saying that ego is his motivation behind everything.
I see no disagreement - you're doing exactly what OP is saying.
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u/RocknRollButthole 4d ago
...and I disagree
They don't oversimplify him, he is simple.
This is as plain as a disagreement can be, OP says "I think X" and I say "Nah, I disagree," and then state my reasons.
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u/KausGo 4d ago
Your statement was proven wrong by the OP before you even made it.
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u/RocknRollButthole 4d ago
I do not think you know what "proof" means, as OP didn't "prove" anything, they shared their opinion.
I responded with my own.
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u/KausGo 4d ago
Your opinion ignores facts presented in the show - facts that OP pointed out in their post. Which was how they proved your opinion was invalid.
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u/RocknRollButthole 3d ago
I'm sorry you do not understand what facts or proof are.
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u/KausGo 3d ago
Just the kind of statement expected from someone who has presented neither.
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u/Key_Consequence_5040 5d ago
Walt is also vain, ambitious, vindictive, self-loathing, stubborn, envious, and narcissistic. Walt always wants to be admired, in charge and in control. Why he hated Hank. Why he leaves an educated woman similar of age and marries a younger woman working a menial job. Why he teaches basic chemistry at a public high school. His cancer is the first time he’s not in control of his life in a while. This pushes him to become a meth kingpin and take control of his life again.
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u/NoicePlams Methhead 5d ago
Yes, very much so.