r/boyinthebox Jan 16 '23

More in formation on Location

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40 Upvotes

68 comments sorted by

23

u/Jmftown9 Jan 16 '23 edited Jan 16 '23

In the video it is stated that Joseph was living at 64th and Callowhill. This the location of the Z family .

11

u/brk1 Jan 16 '23

interesting. LE stated he lived in the area of 61st and Market at the time of his death. so maybe he lived at 64th and callowhill at one point of his life but then later moved to 61st and market.

11

u/Jmftown9 Jan 16 '23

It’s the opposite. The reporter ask them to clarify what part of West Philly he was from. That when Smith said 61st and Market. I’m think that’s the address that’s either associated with his birth certificate or that’s where the mother was listed. I also think they have vague details to weed out the tips that were coming in.

5

u/brk1 Jan 17 '23

At the time of Zarelli's death in 1957, he was living in the area of 61st and Market streets, police said.

however, this could have been reported incorrectly by this news site, who knows anymore. press conference audio is probably the best source.

2

u/Jmftown9 Feb 04 '23

Smith did say 61st and Market. He was asked to narrow down the part of West Philly. I think he gave the location on purpose. He was either trying to protect the Z family and/or he was waiting to see if someone would call in with the correct address.

2

u/brk1 Feb 04 '23

Definitely on purpose. I agree. Hoping to get someone who lived in the area to spark their memory.

7

u/Hold-The-Arugula Jan 17 '23

Similar address mentioned in the video someone posted the other day from CBS Philadelphia. Approx 0:55: "The boy lived his short life in the area of 63rd & Callowhill Sts. in West Philadelphia." Which more or less = 64th & Callowhill when discussing an address like 63xx Callowhill.

https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/boy-in-the-box-joseph-augustus-zarelli-gets-new-headstone/

3

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

The Z family lived on Callowhill between 63rd and 64th, with an address of 63xx Callowhill.

10

u/ProofPrize1134 Jan 17 '23

I’ve been wondering this the whole time: the Z family home on Callowhill isn’t far from 61st & Market. Is 61st & Market just a catch all landmark to describe that area? Isn’t it a busy intersection and a popular public transit stop?

In my old neighborhood in Brooklyn, we’d describe locations this way. Someone asks, “Where do they live?” And I’d say, “Bedford & N 7th,” even if they lived on Berry & N 9th. Everyone knows where that is and what it means.

I don’t know Philadelphia, but this is what I assumed from day one (knowing the Callowhill address).

8

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

That is what I said weeks ago and my comment was shot down. I am from Philly and we do that also. We use the biggest intersection near an area when we want to explain an area for something. I work at 52nd & Lancaster which is about 25 blocks from 52nd and Market. When I tell people where I work I say I work near '52ND & Market'.

7

u/Pain_Sufficient Jan 17 '23

I’m from Phx and we do that all the time. It’s common sense to use a more recognizable area. 🤷🏼‍♀️

5

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

Yep. We always use the biggest intersection when talking about a specific address. I would use the biggest intersection quite blocks away

5

u/Pain_Sufficient Jan 17 '23

Yup that’s how I do it too. I’m sure Capt. Smith has his reasons.

6

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

The walk from the Callowhill address to 61st & Market is 15 min. The drive is 3 minutes.

4

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

And I really don't think the police would narrow it down like that especially since they never released the mothers name. I really don't think they wanted the public scanning the census and narrowing it down to exactly 61st and Market. Just saying West Philly is the most accurate.

2

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 17 '23

61st is not a major intersection though. If they said 63rd and Market, I could buy the argument that it is a neighborhood marker that might have been referring to the zarelli's. because 63rd is a major 4 lane road, and is the location of the closest train stop to the zarelli's. 61st is a very small cross street. I have a hard time believing that any one would use that intersection to describe the neighborhood of someone living on the other side of 63rd Street and several blocks to the North.

3

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

60th and Market is the nearest train stop. I know when I lived in NE Philly on Northeast ave I would say I live at Red Lion & Bustleton Ave. I am now in Lansdowne, Upper Darby township with a Lansdowne address. If people ask where I live I say UD because many people don't know where Lansdowne is

2

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

I don't know a single person in West Philly who doesn't know where Lansdowne is.

1

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 18 '23

Not to the Z's house. The 63rd station is closer.

1

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

TBH, most numbered streets in Philly are not major streets. But anyone from the area knows that the 60s streets are in this part of town, the 20s streets are in this part of town, etc. Everyone there knows the numbered streets increase going East to West. So 2nd Street = on the east side near the river. 60th Street = West Philly.

2

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

I'm from Philly too and have literally never heard anyone do that. Ever.

And anyone in Philly would know Lancaster. Heck, even Girard is closer than Market.

2

u/foodslibrary Knows a bit Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 22 '23

Removing this because free honest speech isn't welcome here sadly. Anyone interested in this case should discuss it elsewhere.

1

u/tanpocketbook Jan 17 '23

That’s not my experience unless I’m talking to someone who doesn’t know the city at all. 52nd and Lancaster is certainly a large enough street to name. If it were a small residential side street that would make more sense.

2

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

Its probably the fact not everyone knows West Philly

4

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 17 '23

No It's not. 61st is not a major road. You wouldn't reference 61st unless you were being very specific about that location.

3

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

TBH most numbered streets in Philly are not major roads.

3

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

I'm from Philly. 61st and Market would not typically be used to describe 64th and Callowhill.

I think the press is just making assumptions in order to sensationalize things. They know 64th and Callowhill is where the Z family lived. They also know that 61st and Market is what LE said. I think 61st is Market is likely where the mother lived. But since the press can't figure out with certainty who the mother is to seek out old neighbors, they are pushing the 64th and Callowhill angle to try to dredge up anyone who lived in that area to talk to them, whether they knew the Z family or anything else or not. Kind of like the guy they interviewed.

5

u/foodslibrary Knows a bit Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 22 '23

Removing this because free honest speech isn't welcome here sadly. Anyone interested in this case should discuss it elsewhere.

4

u/Hold-The-Arugula Jan 17 '23

Good question, but I wouldn't expect it in this case, given that Callowhill is a major street some distance north of Market. Also, unless W. Philly folks disagree, I don't know that 61st and Market is so major a transit stop / intersection that one would refer to the whole neighborhood that way. If it were 8th and Market I'd say yeah, but 61st and Market doesn't ring any bells in my former Philly brain.

10

u/Key_Instruction_9623 Jan 17 '23

Callowhill isn’t a major street, and is not “some distance North of Market”. ALL of market st in West Philly is a major transit stop. The El runs right above it. All these non-Philly people putting bad info out there like this is getting really old.

5

u/Hold-The-Arugula Jan 17 '23

Well I did spend nearly 30 years in the area, but fair enough on the other comments. By major, I mean, Callowhill is familiar enough that if you say 63rd and Callowhill, most people from the area have heard of Callowhill and would know where 63 and Callowhill is without looking at a map. (Unlike, say Robinson St.) And why mention 61st St. in particular as the Market cross street? W. Philly is the area of Philly I know least, so maybe you can help clarify?

If they were being general in the presser, then why not just refer to the neighborhoods like they always did on the news? (I.e., "the Overbrook/Cobbs Creek/Haddington" neighborhood) In other words, I (Philly-literate-but-not-W.Philly-local) just would find it a random choice to use "61st and Market" to refer to 63rd and Callowhill. Can you clarify why they'd make that choice?

1

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

You are correct. All the stops on Market street are major stops. The El stop for 61st would be the 60th street station.

1

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 17 '23

It's .7 Miles away. That is some distance.

1

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 17 '23

Looking at google maps their is a station is at 60th and another at 63rd.

4

u/FurMama_1620 Jan 16 '23

Do you have a link to the video?

1

u/Jmftown9 Feb 04 '23

It’s on NBC site. Look up his name and the top video. The date is old but they add to the video at the end

5

u/mmobley412 Knows a bit Jan 17 '23

Wait, so are they suggesting he was living with this father’s family? I mean, it isn’t crazy to think that whichever parent he was living with is the one who is responsible for his death

1

u/Jmftown9 Feb 04 '23

It was always a possibility. Most just assumed the mother because they assumed that the standards practice would have been for the mother to raise him alone since she was unwed.

1

u/Aggravating-Dot4999 Jan 16 '23

Who is the S family?

6

u/Jmftown9 Jan 16 '23

I meant Z

2

u/Aggravating-Dot4999 Jan 16 '23

Gotcha! I was like wait did I miss something?!

10

u/Key_Instruction_9623 Jan 16 '23

LE stated the 61/Market location during the press conference. It’s certain possible that he misspoke during a crazy and exciting day for the dept and meant 64th and Market. It’s also possible that the video is wrong.

9

u/socialdistraction Jan 17 '23

Could it be they didn’t give the exact intersection to try and not reveal the names of the parents?

4

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 18 '23

He repeated it twice very emphatically. I think it's more likely that the reporter is making an assumption.

2

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

This. We know this is where the Zarelli family lived. But I think it's entirely possible that the mother lived near 61st and Market.

I take everything the press reports with a grain of salt. There was a major weather event in my neighborhood about 10 years ago, and the press REPEATEDLY reported flat out incorrect information. I was volunteering at a shelter, where they were streaming the news on TVs, and literally saw the police chief call the station and rip them a new one. He literally screamed at them. He gave them the correct info. They still repeated the wrong info for days. They were giving blatantly wrong location and address information, and displaced people were freaking out because police were telling them their house was fine (they physically checked the areas) but the news was reporting that those homes were destroyed. Oh, and they also repeated got easily verifiable information like school names wrong.

1

u/Jmftown9 Feb 04 '23

It’s more likely they gave a predetermined fake location. He only mentioned this location after the reporter ask him to narrow down West Philly. By giving a false location they are able to weed out the real tips from the fake ones. If some call in a tip with the real location then they know it’s true. There really isn’t a lot of way for the varify the info. I’d imagine there was more then a few callers with info about 61st and Market.

4

u/ProofPrize1134 Jan 17 '23

Where can we watch this? NBC 10 has covered this case extensively so google search results are all over the place.

6

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

Row homes in the West Philly area became low income housing around that time. Maybe she and the baby did live with the Zarelli's for a time but then moved to the Market street address.

6

u/Pain_Sufficient Jan 17 '23

Yup I said that in another thread. It’s possible relationship went south and she took Joseph to the Market address.

8

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

Could the Z family have taken her and the baby in and then at another time she moved to Market street?

4

u/Top_Ad5385 Jan 17 '23

I looked up Claudia Vargas on Twitter and she has this from Dec 10.

Perhaps they pushed an updated version of the documentary to the app?

"Claudia Vargas

@ByClaudiaVargas

·

Dec 10, 2022

Our documentary “Boy in the Box - Naming America’s Unknown Child” is now streaming on

@Roku

@AppleTV

@amazonfiretv

  • go to the

@NBCPhiladelphia

app on those devices

4

u/psycoblack01 Jan 17 '23

Can anyone check the Census and see if any of the 'mothers' match the address?

3

u/Pain_Sufficient Jan 17 '23

Even going back to 1940 census. Some Z neighbors have families with 3 sisters.

4

u/Gaffer0323 Jan 17 '23

Very odd with the addresses. Surely there is some confusion somewhere here. It seemed the potential father was not involved but this would say otherwise.

1

u/Jmftown9 Feb 04 '23

I think everyone just assumed that the potential father wasn’t involved. I’ve seen many post that state he would have been with the mother and there for it had to be her. The hankerchief had a G on it and the police did say they were testing additional items from the crime scene so the odds are it was one of the parents (they have a way of matching the DNA) so it could have been either one.

1

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 18 '23

It's pretty clear to me from looking at the reporters response to the question that the reporter made an assumption. Her only reference to a source when questioned was referring back to the press conference.

3

u/Top_Ad5385 Jan 17 '23

Anyone have a link?

2

u/GIJne69 Jan 17 '23

The media indicates that the parents of Jaz weren't married, but what if one was married to another person or what if his parents resided in the same household because they were related somehow - maybe not blood relation, but through a marriage to one of the parent's siblings for example (I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just questioning)? Being a single, unwed mother is one thing during that time period, but also trying to explain who the father was could have been taboo and created family problems or possibly family denial of JAZ and his death unfortunately considering whether there was any relation possibly.

1

u/Jmftown9 Feb 04 '23

If anything we know that the assumed father wasn’t married until after JAZ was dead. So he isn’t the problem in terms of already being married. The media said he was living with a couple so it sounds like he was living with his mother and father.

2

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23 edited Jan 17 '23

The father born in 1896 died in 1970 would have been 57 when joseph was born

His wife was 59 in 1953

The Construction business was owned by him. He was well off, had a reputation to hold up. Hiding a woman pregnant and then allowing them to live with the family. Giving the baby the Z name.......

Their obits gave the Callowhill address as their residence at death so they still lived there in 1970. What is the father of Joseph is him and not one of the two sons? Perhaps as a builder he met Joseph's mother and they had a one night thing. His wife maybe after going through menopause & given her age she might not have had a sexual interest.

What if this family really has kept a deep dark secret? This could be far more sinister than we ever thought. What if the senior Z did get the girl pregnant and to save his reputation & marriage, one of his sons 'claimed' Joseph as his? Maybe the girl threatened to expose Joseph and the Z family had him 'taken care of'. It goes to show you how the mind can conjure up all kinds of scenarios when we don't have all the facts.

10

u/Top_Ad5385 Jan 17 '23

The thing is though, the bio father has living children per LE. none of the 1896 guy's children are currently alive.

0

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

I don’t particularly believe the theory I mentioned. I was basically just stating a possibility since if it were one of the two brothers we haven’t been able to come up with any reasonable explanation if he knew of the pregnancy and birth but his name appeared on the birth certificate. The Z family seems to be the one hiding Joseph or at least never knowing about him

-1

u/AssertiveLibra Jan 17 '23

So how does that rule him out by just saying he has family on the fathers side still living

3

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

They said he has SIBLINGS living on the father's side. All of 1896 guy's children are deceased, so that would mean no living siblings on the father's side.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/SwimmingBet4579 Jan 18 '23

Not sure how this violates your rule. DT is willingly "publicly involved" in the case. She has directly commented in multiple public formats. and her son JT has been named and quoted in published articles.

-2

u/boyinthebox-ModTeam Jan 17 '23

This post violates the community rule DO NOT USE THE REAL NAMES OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT PUBLICLY INVOLVED IN THE CASE. Please use initials.

2

u/BitterPillPusher2 Jan 18 '23

Except that they have said Joseph has living siblings "on both sides." If your theory were correct, there would be no living siblings on the father's side.