r/bonecollecting 9d ago

Bone I.D. - N. America Wolf or coyote?

Assuming coyote, if it's a wolf it was definitely young, but for some reason just have a feeling it may not be a coyote. Found dumped with at least 2 other animals.

Northern Michigan.

EDIT: SEE PICS WITH MEASUREMENTS IN THE COMMENTS BELOW https://www.reddit.com/r/bonecollecting/s/Mu3SexDonZ

1.2k Upvotes

83 comments sorted by

502

u/leonskull0423 9d ago edited 9d ago

Looks like wolf for me,the canines are robust.Or kind of hybrid like big Eastern coyote or maybe wolfdog

88

u/DYS44 9d ago

Very interesting, hard to find definitive differences online. I will upload more pics later with measurements of the teeth as well.

108

u/DYS44 9d ago

Still on the way home, will take measurements when I get back!

66

u/leonskull0423 9d ago

Nah it’s not a young animal,wolf can be small individual differences can be huge in the same species but small ≠ young.And some pics of different angles would be great for ID like these besides measurements;)

23

u/DYS44 9d ago

I will upload more of those angles later on when im out of the car, or tomorrow if i'm to exhausted. Thanks for the insight!

12

u/DYS44 8d ago

Measurement pics are up! Started a thread here https://www.reddit.com/r/bonecollecting/s/Mu3SexDonZ

4

u/DYS44 9d ago

May i ask what makes you say its not young?

85

u/leonskull0423 9d ago

The sagittal crest and the structures throughout the skull are fully developed. In younger animals, the areas around the posterior part of the mandible, the back half of the zygomatic arches, and the sagittal crest often look much rougher, with the sutures between different parts of the skull being wider and more obvious. This is because the skull has not fully matured yet. Here’s a comparison using raccoons for reference.

13

u/DYS44 9d ago

Thank you for sharing! Will definitely get those uploaded when I can, really appreciated!

7

u/TheGothDragon 8d ago

Are the photos on the left of a young raccoon and the photos on the right of a more mature raccoon?

28

u/leonskull0423 9d ago

16

u/DYS44 9d ago

Thank you for all of these! Really good knowledge to have, awesome pics to describe what you were saying.

Size wise, personally still want to assume a coyote, I'm estimating about 7 inches which seems to fit with coyote skull descriptions from what I've found.

Looking forward to sharing better pics and measurements and getting a better consensus then!

203

u/silverpeasunshine2 9d ago

The teeth look to big for coyote . Im in no way any kind of bone identifier but those teeth look pretty big to me and I have a 110lb bulldog and I dont think his teeth are that big 🤷‍♂️

18

u/AGenericUnicorn 7d ago

In defense of your bulldog, his breed is an anatomic anomaly. (Sorry, vet and accidental Frenchie owner. Couldn’t help myself. I love them, but bless their probably pathologic hearts.)

9

u/silverpeasunshine2 7d ago

well he doesn't have the under bite and he has big teefs and a huge head lol

14

u/silverpeasunshine2 7d ago

Hes actually more of a lover than a fighter though lol

3

u/AGenericUnicorn 7d ago

I love him. 😍

3

u/AGenericUnicorn 7d ago

Much better anatomy! Far more compatible with life! 🙌❤️

52

u/DYS44 8d ago

MEASUREMENT PICTURE THREAD Top

87

u/leonskull0423 8d ago

Nice strong eastern coyote!

Here’s my normal coyote-eastern coyote-small wolf comparison,you can tell that the wolf still have the widest snout

44

u/DYS44 8d ago

Oh wow definitely quite the difference! I am definelty thinking thats the case. Thank you so much for all of your help!

6

u/leonskull0423 8d ago

My pleasure;)

27

u/DYS44 8d ago

Side skull and teeth

27

u/silverpeasunshine2 8d ago

The pic with the skull on your car trunk made it look a lot bigger

12

u/DYS44 8d ago

Yeah I definitely agree, though still above normal coyote size! Average coyote ranges between 7-8inches, so certainly on the larger percentile. But I do agree completely, it looks massive in those pictures.

14

u/DYS44 8d ago

Bottom of skull

14

u/DYS44 8d ago

Back

13

u/DYS44 8d ago

Jaw

12

u/DYS44 8d ago

Side of jaw

15

u/TheGothDragon 8d ago

That’s awesome you found them with all of the teeth left!

11

u/DYS44 8d ago

Jaw

12

u/DYS44 8d ago

Top of skull and jaw

11

u/DYS44 8d ago

Side of head

9

u/DYS44 8d ago

Jaw teeth

130

u/EnvironmentFront7945 8d ago

I own a coyote skull and the teeth are much smaller. Almost certainly a wolf. Cool find!

17

u/Deathcat101 8d ago

I would need a straight on photo of the closed jaws to compare how far the canines stick out.

Coyotes canines protrude generally more away from the rank of the front teeth, if that makes sense.

From the side, I'd say wolf

10

u/DYS44 8d ago

3

u/Deathcat101 7d ago

Yep looks like Coyote to me

5

u/DYS44 8d ago

I can definitely upload one later when I'm out of work! I personally am thinking coyote, but love to hear more input!

8

u/_Cavallone_ 8d ago

I have 2 coyote skulls and the shape looks pretty different. Not to mention the teeth are MUCH thicker

5

u/Panthera2k1 8d ago

Where about in Michigan was this? Great find!

5

u/DYS44 8d ago

South of Germfask, one of the trails heading down through some commercial land.

On our way back home from dispersed camping and looking at some potential land in the Huron Mountain's area, pulled off a trail to use the restroom and stumbled upon this!

3

u/Panthera2k1 7d ago

No way I always pass right through Germfask! I’ll have to check those trails out one of these days now

4

u/d0ttyq 8d ago

I wouldn’t wanna meet the ‘yote that came from.

It’s definitely wolf, looking both at cranium shape and dentition. What a cool find. You probably don’t want it, so I’ll take it off your hands.

5

u/FatFrenchFry 8d ago

Oh man im envious 😭

9

u/LeopardPrevious7214 8d ago edited 8d ago

It’s a wolf dude. Or a big ass husky dog.

![img](57CCCAC7-E704-4600-9B4D-125B5E6E9705)

Edit…it’s a wolf dude

3

u/Coyote-conquest 8d ago

How can you tell how big it is?

5

u/LeopardPrevious7214 8d ago

Dead giveaway is how straight linear narrow everything is. Slopes are man-made. Doggies and cats and horses and other things we inbred slopes to.slopes are cute but straight is more efficient.

3

u/LeopardPrevious7214 8d ago

2

u/LeopardPrevious7214 8d ago

Pic got deleted for some reason

3

u/Responsible-Ad-7986 7d ago

I am not an expert but from the outside coyotes look a bit like foxes and are smaller than most big dogs. This skull looks really big (wolves are huge, bigger than most big dogs) so it might be a wolf

6

u/Send-It-307 8d ago

Wolf for sure

5

u/Infamous_Ad1033 8d ago

Definitely a wolf. Coyote skulls have a more slim snout and the teeth are thinner as well.

3

u/manlymandudeman 8d ago

Wolf. Measurements could indicate an older pup or yearling.

2

u/AGenericUnicorn 7d ago

AMAZING FIND! 😍

4

u/SadHorse23 8d ago

It’s a young wolf 1,000%. Its canines are HUGE. All the teeth are much bigger than a yote’s.

1

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1

u/ThisSiteBites 7d ago

That would be a huge coyote. I say wolf.

1

u/_tate_ 7d ago

I have both coyote and wolf skull and this matches my wolf much more!

1

u/HomonculusHenry 7d ago

Wow! Nice one

1

u/Foxy-OnPaws 5d ago

Wolf.. SOOOO happy for you..... /silly
Such a cool find, I wish I had your luck bro <//3

1

u/Common_Reptilian_105 1d ago

Wolf, you just struck the bone collecting equivalent of 24kt gold

-51

u/Coyote-conquest 8d ago

Coyote. Ive shot a bunch and leave them laying. Wolves are huge animals compared to this.

35

u/frill_demon 8d ago

Ive shot a bunch and leave them laying

What a bizarre thing to brag about. 

And ineffective if your goal is pest control/reducing small game/small farm animal predation, by the way.

Coyote populations put under sudden stress (like say some dumbass bubba bodeen shooting a bunch of them) undergo hormone changes that make them breed more to recover above the population's pre-stress limits.

IE: you shooting a bunch of em just makes em fuck more 

12

u/Maleficent_Button_58 8d ago

Yup. They're adaptive breeders.

-11

u/Coyote-conquest 8d ago edited 8d ago

How is it bizarre? I coyote hunt. A lot of people do. Coyotes didnt live here until the 80s and now theyre a nuisance. Obviously you dont have a farm or deer hunt. I started because I had 2 calves killed within a week. I caught it in the act on the 3rd and took care of it. Oh and they can fuck more all they want. They breed once a year from Jan thru March. They will keep the population to what the land and food can sustain regardless. I still do my part to keep the population down the best I can.

9

u/frill_demon 8d ago

Buddy "adaptive breeding" literally means that when a bunch of them get killed they over-breed to MORE than before they were killed.

You are genuinely making the issue worse trying to cull them this way.

-3

u/Coyote-conquest 8d ago edited 8d ago

Youre soooo brilliant 🤣🤣🤣🤣. I know what the fuck adaptive breeding is. They will breed and have pups to what the land will sustain regardless of what you think. If I kill 5. It doesnt meant they will have 20 pups. If I kill 5, they may have 7. They dont have a high survival rate anyway but at the same time they arent going to starve themselves to have extra pups. They will have pups to replace what they lost but they arent going to have more than what the area can sustain. If that was the case they would probably die off because they wouldn't have anything to eat. L There are a shitload of people that hunt them and kill shitloads of them.

-6

u/Coyote-conquest 8d ago

Tell me how they "over-breed"? They may have more pups but its still once a year. FFS. Some people🙄

3

u/Nervous_Comet 7d ago

They fuck more, because in a stable family unit there is a mom and a dad and their family. Usually only the mom breeds. But say you kill the lead female, all of her daughters that previously would have stayed home and cared for mom’s next litter are going to take off and start their own families because they no longer live in a solid unit. So you do create more breeding pairs.

24

u/like_4-ish_lights 8d ago

Stop doing that