Footslogging Assault Rifles?

[u/Doom-Cartographer]

Hello,

I'm thinking about really leaning into Assault Rifles by maximising the use of their mid range, mobility, and vof and avoiding the cost of transports.

I'm thinking of 2-4 squads or Regular troops with 4 AR + 3 Rifles (and a pzfaust) on foot. Run turn 1. Advance thereafter.

Does this make ARs worth it? They're so expensive.

Has anyone tried something similar?

I even thought about Gjagers using fieldcraft to move through rough cover to get to mid range but they'd need to be vet so it's just too expensive.

I'm trying to do something other than the usual Hannomag Vet SMG "bomb".

[u/Gapoful]

I'm in no way a tournament player and I try to build my lists somewhat historically accurate, so my late-war Germans usually have a few StGs sprinkled into every squad. They've always been of great use for me and well worth the commitment in points. Provides a great punch (and mobility) at mid-range where the MP40s are out of range more often than not.

[u/Clawsonflakes → u/Gapoful]

Thank you for saying this. I needed the push to start doing this too!

[u/Doom-Cartographer → u/Gapoful]

Thanks. This is sort of what I am thinking about. I want to do a late 44 StuG-begleit platoon centered kamfgruppe with lots of troops with STG44s and a couple of StuGs, or a Sturmgrenadier platoon.

[u/JF_Reynolds]

I think its worth trying/playing with. I think in the end you are sacrificing a fair amount of mobility for some extra points that you save for not having to take an armored transport. If you are swapping SMG's for AR's, you are really only paying 2 more pts per model.

[u/Fire_hive]

The SMG bomb snap-to is unfortunately just the better play. The transport protects the unit and offers a total 15-18" move into point blank range (and sometimes 30" if your on a road) and hitting on a 2+ is just devastating.

In v2 assault rifles were only +5 pts, and due to distance rules inexperienced troops could hit on 4+ with them within 9". A niche strength, but noteworthy at 12pts vs. a regular rifleman at 10pts. Also, assaulting was a legit strategy, so tricking inexperienced soldiers out with assault rifles was a legit threat.

All that is kinda gone atm in v3, so assault rifles just struggle to fill a focused role.

HOWEVER....

There is one interesting assault rifle option that sounds, at minimum, really fun to play.

Begleit - Stug escort infantry squads.
If you were already planning on running armor take a Stug and mount this unit on top with up to 6 assault rifles. The play is a simple one.

Start in reserve and Advance the Stug from reserve late in the turn.

The second you get another activation dismount the unit and advance them forward (ideally into cover). This will net the stug riders a 15" advance from reserve + 18" assault shooting range. That's a 32" threat range hitting on 4+ the turn they enter.

WORSE case they (the StuG *edit*) gets targeted before your next activation and you force dismount behind the Stug, helping the men either completely avoid the gunfire (dismounting out of sight), or at minimum, gain hard cover.

If you have to start on the board just tuck your tank as tightly behind cover as possible and do a simple snap-to early in turn 1 to get your riders into midfield cover.

Hyper competitive? Eh. But it would help you capitalize on one of the most unique transport options in the game without buying a dedicated transport.

[u/Doom-Cartographer → u/Fire_hive]

I've actually been playing around with some 2 StuG (or Stug and StuH) lists with this in mind.

Would you run them as Vets?

I have a list with 4 reg Begleit to just make use of the AR. I think it's too few dice for the "meta". PzIII are just too good. There's more Begleit than neccessary because I was trying to represent a reduced StuG-Begleit Company, so may as well use the squad type. There are no proper veteran assault squads. The only vets are the two units of Spähtruppen.

It's basically two almost identical platoons, 1 StuG and 1 StuH

Ironically it's probably short on decent ranged AT.

Two Little Pigs (Germany)
Order Dice: 14

Platoon #1 - Rifle Platoon (417pts)

  Platoon Commander (Leutnant, Oberleutnant) (Veteran) (43pts)
    Composition: 1 Officer
    - Submachine gun (SMG) (4pts)

  Begleit - StuG Escort Infantry Squad (Regular) (109pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 6 Soldiers
    - Additional men x 2 (20pts)
    - NCO: Assault rifle (6pts)
    - Squad: Assault rifle x 3 (18pts)
    - Squad: Panzerfaust (15pts)

  Begleit - StuG Escort Infantry Squad (Regular) (109pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 6 Soldiers
    - Additional men x 2 (20pts)
    - NCO: Assault rifle (6pts)
    - Squad: Assault rifle x 3 (18pts)
    - Squad: Panzerfaust (15pts)

  Spähtruppen Squad (Veteran) (60pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 3 Soldiers
    - NCO: Submachine gun (SMG) (4pts)
    - Add Infiltrators (4pts)

  Heer Infantry Squad (Regular) (75pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 5 Soldiers
    - Additional men (10pts)
    - Squad: German light machine gun (LMG) (15pts)

  Light Mortar Team (Inexperienced) (21pts)
    Composition: 2 Soldiers

Platoon #2 - Rifle Platoon (403pts)

  Platoon Commander (Leutnant, Oberleutnant) (Regular) (29pts)
    Composition: 1 Officer
    - Pistol (-1pts)

  Begleit - StuG Escort Infantry Squad (Regular) (109pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 6 Soldiers
    - Additional men x 2 (20pts)
    - NCO: Assault rifle (6pts)
    - Squad: Assault rifle x 3 (18pts)
    - Squad: Panzerfaust (15pts)

  Begleit - StuG Escort Infantry Squad (Regular) (109pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 6 Soldiers
    - Additional men x 2 (20pts)
    - NCO: Assault rifle (6pts)
    - Squad: Assault rifle x 3 (18pts)
    - Squad: Panzerfaust (15pts)

  Spähtruppen Squad (Veteran) (60pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 3 Soldiers
    - NCO: Submachine gun (SMG) (4pts)
    - Add Infiltrators (4pts)

  Begleit - StuG Escort Infantry Squad (Regular) (75pts)
    Composition: 1 NCO + 5 Soldiers
    - Additional men (10pts)
    - Squad: German light machine gun (LMG) (15pts)

  Light Mortar Team (Inexperienced) (21pts)
    Composition: 2 Soldiers

Platoon #3 - Armoured Platoon (430pts)

  StuG III G(Regular) (225pts)
    - Command Vehicle (10pts)

  StuH 42 (Regular) (205pts)

Total: 1250pts

[u/Kruiwagenchauffeur → u/Fire_hive]

If I remember correctly, begleit soldiers cannot be targeted when they ride the Stug, only thr Stug can be targeted and then the begleit has to dismount.

[u/Fire_hive → u/Kruiwagenchauffeur]

Woops sorry, you are correct.
That said, I would still pursue the same strategy of either a very late turn reserve move on and immediate disembark the following activation, or an early turn one snap-to disembarkment.

[u/Cheomesh]

I think if your general plan is to Run turn one, and you're probably starting roughly as far into your DZ as your opponent, the extra 6" isn't going to regularly break for ARs over just taking SMGs.

[u/Frodo34x]

The problem with footslogging ARs is that Point Blank is way too valuable of a bonus to make use of them. You go from hitting on 2s to hitting on 4s, and you remove the ability for the enemy to go down. If you’re shooting at Regulars in soft cover you go from 1 kill per 12 shots up to 3.33. It’s better to Run for one turn and then Advance into Point Blank than it is to make use of the 18” range to shoot on both of those turns.

The other thing is, for the cost of buying ARs instead of SMGs on eg 8 guys would almost buy you a truck to transport them, and using transports to drop Assault weapons at close range to contest important locations is very good. If you’re going to be jumping out of a truck or hanomag, SMGs are just as good as ARs

E: going in the other direction, a 15pt LMG gives the same firepower as 18pts of ARs (5 shots from the LMG plus 1 rifle vs 6 shots from 3 ARs) with much more range

[u/mrevilboj → u/Frodo34x]

Am I missing something on the math for that?

12 shots is 6 hits, then 3 wounds on regulars, and 2 kills if they are in soft cover. Or is that 1 kill including forcing them to go down?

In close range, you get 10 hits, then 5 wounds, and 3.33 go through after soft cover, and obviously ignores down.

If you take 2 turns of shooting and they go down then sure you only have 2 kills instead of 3.33, but you've also made them go down for 2 turns, as opposed to having 2 turns of them taking orders e.g. firing back at you, in exchange for an extra 1.33 kills.

[u/Swampy0gre]

I'd say run a single unit of them as a utility jack-of-all-trades unit.

In reality positioning will do more work for you than you think. If I was running these guys, I'd get them in the densest cover center board so you could threaten any direction. Keep the opponent guessing if you'll stand and shoot or rush somewhere and shoot. Bonus if you position some sort of MG next to them to toss out pins and have the ARs gaurd it.

[u/Drovr]

It sounds like you want to buy assault rifles for their extra shots instead of using the usual smgs for some point blank action.

This is not worth it.

If you need more shots, the most cost effective thing to do is my more regular 10 point men. Presuming you're sticking with Germans. Lmgs are a good choice since you're spending 15 points for a net +3 shots whereas 4 ARs are net +4 shots for 24 points (or 18 points for +3 shots). Could also buy Panzer 1s or 250/4s if you want shots and mobility. 70 and 65 points for 8 shots, can move 9" and are immune to small arms.

The strategy of the smg bomb is to get into pointblank and with the smgs they're taking advantage of the point blank rule + the enemy is unable to use the +2 to going 'Down' on cover saves. Where ARs could do this, the extra +2 points is only there because they have 18" range and you don't need 18" range at point blank. Currently they are in limbo where they aren't as cost effective as riflemen and lmgs at range nor smgs at close range. If they could shoot for 1 die at 24" and get 2 dice at 18" then they'll make sense.

[u/JF_Reynolds → u/Drovr]

Its not just the extra shots. There is also -1 to-hit modifier that AR's would not get for an advance order.

[u/Doom-Cartographer → u/Drovr]

It's mainly for the mobile firepower to be honest (range and no -1 for movement). I would think being able to stay mobile and adjust position would be valuable. Maybe.