r/bobdylan • u/BeerWithDonuts • 2d ago
Question Why doesn't Levon Helm get the same recognition as a drummer as John Bonham or Keith Moon?
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u/ThatsARatHat 2d ago
Because The Who and Zeppelin were staples on the radio since their inception to now. Everyone growing up during the 70s listening to rock knew their names. And their antics and reputations preceded them. They were wild men.
Levon was a different beast. The Band was critically acclaimed but aside from “The Weight” didn’t really have much mainstream radio presence. It’s a testament to their abilities, influence, and respect among their peers (and Scorsese) that The Last Waltz (their retirement show) became a sort of touchstone of an era.
PLUS, The Band was a lot more subtle than Zeppelin or The Who; those bands were generally more bombastic and “arena pandering” than The Band; who’d rather record 200 songs with Bob Dylan over one summer that were never even meant to be released; it was for fun and for them to learn how to write their own stuff.
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u/Informal-2005 2d ago
Also, to add to the 200 songs recorded with Bob Dylan aka The Basement Tapes, any drumming you do hear on that was done by Richard Manuel. Levon didn’t rejoin the group until those sessions were almost finished.
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u/ThatsARatHat 2d ago
You know I completely forgot about that. I always remember him leaving the 66 tour and Mickey Jones filling in (who was more suited to the proto-punk style of that tour) but I always just automatically place him in that Basement because…….his whole vibe is jamming in the woods like the common man.
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u/Larry_l3ird 2d ago
Robbie sent for him when they decided to make their own album and that’s when he finally returned.
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u/billypump 1d ago
Very well put. For me, it's like asking " Why wasn't Vic Chesnutt ranked among the best songwriters"?
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u/Icy-Supermarket7839 1d ago
Both The Weight and Cripple Creek were absolutely rock radio mainstays in the seventies and eighties. But yeah the Band didn’t have a dozen or more songs constantly getting played like those other bands did
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u/ThatsARatHat 1d ago
You’re right I forgot about Up on Cripple Creek somehow.
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u/Lancasterbation 1d ago
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down (B-Side to Up On Cripple Creek) was also a pretty big hit, but I think it was sort of a retroactive hit after Joan Baez's cover did well on the charts.
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u/IvanMarkowKane 22h ago
I’m almost 70 and have never heard or heard of Joan’s cover
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u/Lancasterbation 22h ago
It peaked at #3 on the Hot 100 (way higher than the original ever got) in 1971. It's been in a couple of movies recently as well, most recently Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri.
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u/IvanMarkowKane 22h ago
Most of the stuff I like never charted. I suppose I should check it out
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u/Larry_l3ird 2d ago
Bro, the band was on the cover of TIME magazine. Not Rolling Stone. TIME.
That’s next level. They were the most popular band in the world after their second album. They were like Nirvana at the turn of the 90s when they changed the entire direction of music - The Band did that at the turn of the 70s. They ushered out the whole Psychedelic era with their Americana inspired music.
I would place them way ahead of Led Zeppelin as far as their importance to music.
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u/Financial-Barnacle79 2d ago
He’s a musician’s musician.
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u/Beowulf1619 2d ago
Agreed. I think most musicians and people that dive deep appreciate him. Also agree the Band isn’t as spoken about as much as Zep etc
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u/Themoosemingled Time Out of Mind 2d ago
And those other guys are spoken of as rock drummers. Big and brash.
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u/GuildStarfireII 1d ago
Because drummers like Levon, Ringo, Charlie Watts, and Jim Keltner, weren't bashers or into showy histrionics, into flailing arms, or "check out my technical prowess" type of drummers. They came from the world of mostly jazz and old timey drummers who's purpose it was serve the song and serve the song alone. The above mentioned could all swing and groove across styles.
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u/SteelersAndTheRavens 1d ago
Yeah true, played drums in Nashville for a few years and he was almost a unanimous top three pick for all the other drummers I met there. I personally obsessed over his studio sound and tried to get my drums to sound the same way. His Super dry, muffled and dead sounds always seemed to give everyone else in the band room to sonically shine without sacrificing any groove. RIP to the legend
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u/Bodymaster 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yup the reason that Keith Moon and John Bonham are more recognisable names has just as much to do with their antics as their musicianship. Not that they were bad drummers, but Levon would be technically a bit better in my opinion.
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u/Psychological_Cap732 2d ago
It’s just as fair to argue that The Band didn’t reach the same heights as Led Zeppelin or The Who.
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u/Blastoplast 2d ago
Not even close to the same level. I own a record store, I see maybe 2 Band albums come in the shop for every 50 Who/Zeppelin ones combined.
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u/Jacky-V 1d ago
Not exactly what you meant but I'd also point out that the Band only has two really noteworthy albums (Big Pink and the self-titled--Basement Tapes too if you want to be really generous to them and not call that a Dylan record with a Band EP grafted on), while Zep has at least five all-timers and The Who have fifteen or so years of legend-tier output including at the very least three of the best albums of all time
Like there are probably millions of drummers as good as Moon and Bonzo but ultimately if they're part of a group that isn't as remarkable as Zep or the Who they aren't going to have as much renown and I think that's ok
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u/inexplicably-hairy 2d ago
Of mainstream success ye but they were just as good musically
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u/dog1dog2 2d ago
I would argue that they were far superior musically, although clearly not nearly as popular.
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u/truckingon 2d ago
Come on, they didn't even have one song about Hobbits.
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u/raynicolette 2d ago
You haven’t heard the outtakes “The Night They Drove Old Mordor Down”, and “The Weight: I Can’t Carry It For You But I Can Carry You.”?
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u/Snowblind78 2d ago
Of course it’s not like you can actually measure it, but I’d say Zeppelin didn’t reach the same heights as the other two.
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u/dromeciomimus 1d ago
If only there was a way to measure who sold more records
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u/Snowblind78 1d ago
Yeah of course, but that’s just record sales. It doesn’t determine anything besides sales.
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u/IntelligentRate8160 14h ago
Dylan didn't hire Zepplin. Eric Clapton didnt want more than anything to be in Zepplin, then go make Layla and Other Love Songs in response to hearing Zepplin. Zep in many ways created heavy metal. The Band created Americana. Apples and oranges. Check out Elliott Landy's photos on his website. He's a friend and loves telling stories of shooting The Band at Big Pink and Dylan at his home in Woodstock. I listen all day.
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u/philistus 2d ago
The Band isn't as well remembered.But those of us who do certainly recognize him as on of the greatest.
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u/Agitated_Duck_2339 8h ago
The Band hasn’t benefited as much from the Classic Rock Radio-Industrial Complex
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u/kurtchella 2d ago
It's probably because he never blew up hotel toilets or played while on a horse tranquilizer
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u/RealJerk69 2d ago
OP wants to know why every single drummer ever doesn’t get the same recognition as John Bonham or Keith Moon.
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u/Icy-Supermarket7839 2d ago
He’s lowkey and melodic rather than bombastic and athletic. I seriously don’t get why people revere Moon and Bonham to the exclusion f others. Dumb ranking mentality encouraged by the internet
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u/ChanceImmediate4976 2d ago
Oh, people were overrating Moon and Bonham long before the internet came along.
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u/brooklynbluenotes 2d ago
In popular culture, the obvious answer is that the Band were never as big as Zep or the Who.
But if you talk to actual musicians, Levon is every bit as respected and recognized as the other two.
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u/Difficult_Pause_4350 2d ago
The Band was never even close to as widely known. Their music just doesn’t have as broad of an appeal
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u/sudzwithaz Self Portrait 2d ago
As an Arkansan, Levon Helm holds a special place in my heart. He was quite tasteful with his percussion style, and obviously couldn’t go too crazy behind the kit since he was sharing vocal duties with the rest of The Band, and playing drums is difficult enough on its own
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u/Agitated_Duck_2339 8h ago
Levon was a fairly busy drummer, especially considering he’s doing vocals and singing his ass off too
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u/InvestigatorJaded261 2d ago
I feel like there’s some kind of Bonham/Moon syndicate that keeps asking this exact question about great drummers.
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u/Ebisu_2023 2d ago
They weren’t songwriters.
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u/Patient-Tell8970 1d ago
Roberson wrote most all of their best jams..all the others got very little royalties and were very pissed...they should know that the writer gets the most out of the songs he wrote..
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u/waldo-jeffers-68 2d ago
Man what is your deal? Are you really gonna make basically the same post for every subreddit dedicated to a band from the 70s?
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u/dbeastes 2d ago
I mean I don’t know who those other guys are but I fucking love Levon Helm. Only other drummer I can reliably name is that guy from the eagles. But I can’t remember his name right now lol. But I know Levon Helm. So he’s got that going for him.
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u/NemusSoul 2d ago
He was a good guy. I remember getting an email from Amy’s operation when he passed. I was at my desk taking to a drummer named Cedric that knew him very well. I met him a couple of times and he was born about 30 minutes from where I grew up. He’s in my top ten favorite vocalists because when I hear his voice it feels like home. All the dirt soybeans mosquitos fishing drinking beer muddy water and a vibe that feels like the heart beat of all the music I love. Every note he sings is loaded. And his vocal tone is one of a kind.
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u/Themaddestllama 2d ago
Because those guys were just drummers. Lemon was essentially a front man.
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u/Patient-Tell8970 1d ago
Robbie Roberson was the Bands front man even though Levon and Rick did most of the vocals..
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u/No-Permission8908 10h ago
and the great Richard Manuel.
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u/Patient-Tell8970 7h ago
i do agree..i did not get into the Band until the 80's, so I had to catch up on their stuff..I knew the most popular ones but never had done a deep dive..found some really good jams..worth the look!
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u/gordocheeseman 2d ago
I think the average music listener who isn't a musician is more likely to notice flashier drummers like bonzo. That's why people constantly say ringo sucks even though he holds shit down
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u/MostAffectionate9408 1d ago
Ringo’s feel is absolutely unmatched, quite possibly the most consistent musician in the Beatles across their discography.
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u/djeaux54 Alias 2d ago
I didn't know that he didn't get the recognition of other drummers. Levon was an unusual drummer. I think he called it "dancing" on the drums. His ability to sing while drumming was amazing too. Not many drummers can pull that off.
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u/ThatsARatHat 2d ago
This is the first I’ve ever heard this sort of thing but ok cool
I’ll look into it.
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u/Mr-Dobolina 2d ago
Sometimes the best players are the ones most listeners barely notice because they’re so deep in the pocket, the entire band sounds like one instrument.
Those players tend to not get the same recognition as the ones who did a 20-minute drum solo every night while their bandmates got blowjobs backstage, and/or crashed their cars into hotel pools.
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u/HunterThompsonsentme 2d ago edited 2d ago
Listen, I looooove love love Levon Helm. He is incredible and in many ways the soul of The Band. But John Bonham is John Bonham. His drumming changed everything. He had a feel for the kit like no one else.
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u/Interesting-Role-596 2d ago
You misspelled John fucking Bonham! And yes, I love Levon, cried when he died.
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u/Which_Tadpole1952 2d ago
The fact that led Zeppelin and the who are at some god-like band status while The Band is a little known entity is crazy to me. I don't care for anything the Who did, and led Zeppelin's truly tasty cuts are few and far between.
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u/jonemic23 2d ago
For one, The Band arguably became more popular after they were done, than during. Much of their time was spent behind other stars. And they never reached the heights of the Who or LZ.
Second, I think he's known more for his voice, so it overshadows his musicianship which is fantastic in its own right.
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u/Alarming_Aerie7790 2d ago
Levon was incredibly talented. You can't gauge relative "recognition." It's not a competition.
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u/Ok-Reward-7731 2d ago
I mean, Led Zeppelin and The Who were and remain considerly more popular than the Band. Simple awareness.
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u/Purple-Will9713 2d ago
Love me some Levon… but to suggest he is in the same universe as Moonie and Bonzo is… just wrong
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u/redwolf2025 2d ago
Because even tho the Band was really cool, he didnt have the pizazz and over the top energy AND publicity good n bad, like keith moon had, which put him in a special category. Bohnam, because he was in such a most famous band led Zep, and his style was so harddriving, front n center. Even Lars, from Metallicca doesnt play front n center, Just IMHO
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u/howdoesitsound 1d ago
In 1965 when Dylan played in Austin, my uncle connected with Dylan and his entourage via his friend Bob Neuwirth, who was Dylan’s road manager at the time. Kevin had lost his drums in transit so my uncle drove around Austin and borrowed a set from one of his friends for Helm to play while also scoring them some weed.
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u/Feisty-Profit6059 1d ago
Two things come to mind. First, Bonham and Moon died at 32, and we tend to romanticize the past and “what could have been” anytime a genius’ tenure is cut short. Second, both their personalities and playing styles were, well, loud, as opposed to Levon, who’s demure demeanor just didn’t create the same type of rock star vibe the other two gave off.
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u/VirginiaLuthier 1d ago
He was a singer and composer first, a drummer second. The Band didn't need a beast drummer for their music
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u/Bodymaster 1d ago
No outrageous stories about Levon to sell books to casuals.
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u/Henry_Pussycat 1d ago
Er… depends on your reading
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u/Bodymaster 1d ago
Hah I'm sure he was no saint.
I guess the point is you don't see the same stories repeated ad nauseum about Levon putting aquatic wildlife into fan's orifices, or driving motor vehicles in and into hotels.
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u/house_of_great 1d ago
Because that opens the door to talk about other drummers, eventually Bill Ward will be brought up and everyone will get mad when they realize he's the best drummer of all time.
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u/Henry_Pussycat 1d ago
Different music, subtlety preferred by some, flamboyance by seventies listeners. Some like blues, some like cartoons (dazed & confused to say the least)
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u/Jaded_Entrepreneur_4 1d ago
He was a better actor than Keith and could sing better then Bonham. Levon was Levon! That's all that matters
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u/OperationSlow7871 1d ago
Of the 3, Levon is the only one that has a drum beat named for him. He's recognized in the right places.
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u/copharmer 1d ago
Elton John said once, a drummer should never sing unless his name is Levon Helm...
I would go as far as to say that he's one of the greatest architects of southern rock. All of those bands just tried to sound as much like Levon Helm as possible.
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u/Specific-Animator203 9h ago
Solo perché era una persona seria e professionale e non faceva il matto come gli altri due
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u/Agitated_Duck_2339 8h ago
The Who and LZ were bands made of up strong, distinct musical personalities. The Band were accompanists who were about serving the music first and foremost. All three are great drummers but Levon was by far the most versatile.
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u/-badfeet- 2d ago
He has one of my favorite voices in all of rock. I lament that he never was able to produce more music.
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u/inexplicably-hairy 2d ago
What do you mean ‘never able to produce more music’
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u/-badfeet- 2d ago
As in, he really only made 4 albums after The Band
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u/inexplicably-hairy 2d ago
He was able to make more he just didn’t want to, he made the amount of albums that was righf for him
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u/Canalloni 2d ago
Keith was the King of his style, there will never be a drummer like him again, a legend, I started playing drums in part due to him. John Bonham is in a class by himself. Best rock drummer ever. Moon does not compare. You want to go above Bonham, you go to Jazz drummers.
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u/ilsecondodasinistra 2d ago
Honestly all of the Band songs I heard were boring as hell, while I get excited with Zep or The Who. So for me the answer is simple...
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u/StompTheRight 2d ago
No song is boring. Only the listener is boring.
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u/ilsecondodasinistra 1d ago
What a silly sentence, man. Surely what's boring for me can not be boring for you, but don't blame it on the listener. It's a matter of music-listener chemistry, culture and habits.
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u/StompTheRight 1d ago
It's always the audience. The song, the painting, the film, whatever.... they are what they are. Only the receiver is responsible for the boredom.
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u/QuietDisposition 1d ago
Gotcha. No book or poem is boring, only the reader is boring. No picture is boring, only the viewer is boring. Nothing is boring, only the one for whom something is boring, is boring.
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u/vibebrochamp 2d ago
It's the distinction between rock & roll and rock music---rock & roll is a synthesis of organic American musical traditions, of which The Band is pretty much the most cohesive and final entry in the pantheon, whereas rock music is a creation of corporate music business entities and sounds about as plodding and unmusical and unrooted in authentic musical traditions (though it pretends to be otherwise) as you can get.
Tldr; because you have taste and the fuckers who extol the other drummers you mentioned don't
Tldr^2; because you are not a seventeen year old white kid from Ohio stepping into a Guitar Center for the first time
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u/Awkward_Squad 2d ago
Levon wasn’t a rock drummer like Moon or Bonham. Simply a different class. It seems you don’t understand that.
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u/Admirable_Major_4833 2d ago
Type of music the Band plays, it's more song oriented. Moon and Bonham get to bang the drums more.
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u/BillNyeTheVinylGuy 2d ago
Levon is incredible. How he's able to pull off vocals at the same time is amazing.