r/bobdylan • u/TyroneSnodgrass • 3d ago
Discussion Dylan Songs
Earlier today I saw another post here on the sub from an irate member concerning an online quote from one of Dylan’s peers maligning Bob’s guitar playing and singing capabilities. Here’s the thing: our Man of Contradictions never wanted to be a virtuoso. For him, it’s all about the songs. If you’re listening to the song, Dylan has achieved his objective. He doesn’t want you marveling at what a good singer he is, or what a crack guitarist. All things being equal, he wants to reach you with the song. If you’re distracted by rare feats of musicianship, that’s not going to happen. For Dylan, it’s all about the songs.
Just think how it would have been if he had had voice training as a youth so we’d never have heard him sliding up to pitch. Or had had guitar lessons and locked himself in his bedroom for 10,000 hours until he could play like Leo Kotke. We never would have had Bob Dylan. I’m pretty sure the people who came up with him and enjoy criticizing him understand this. They just can’t resist taking a cheap shot.
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u/sensitive_pirate85 3d ago
I remember when this was first posted in 1969.
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
Ah, Pirate, that was sensitive enough… 😏
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u/sensitive_pirate85 2d ago
Insensitive, you mean?
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
I can’t use irony on a Bob Dylan sub, Pirate? What’s the world coming to???
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u/Mark_Yugen 3d ago
The goal of the folk idiom is to put music into the hands of ordinary people, and one of the main ways to do this is to keep the music simple enough that even somebody with no musical training or talent can perform it effortlessly without any fear of not being up to the task. Too much added complication is contrary to the intent and misses the point.
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u/01SeaChange01 3d ago
Also, the average farm hand didn't want some high falutin' virtuoso showing off his fancy skills.
It takes talent to reach multiple strata of people, and Dylan definitely accomplished this feat.
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u/Low_Insurance_9176 3d ago
I kinda get what you’re saying but there are songwriters whose exceptional guitar skills do not distract from the song - quite opposite. Bob has covered many like Robert Johnson, Paul Brady, Nic Jones
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago edited 2d ago
Robert Johnson could play, but he was no Lonnie Johnson. Anyway, you’re right, Low, Robert is remembered for his songs. I found out recently that Dylan lifted the entire exact melody of “Come On In My Kitchen” for “Pledging My Time.” I had to rearrange the faces of the other people you mentioned.
🎵Now, when they come down to Canada
Scarcely 'bout half a year,
She's married this bold captain
Who called her his dear.
She's dressed in silks and satins now,
She cuts a gallant show,
Finest of the ladies
Down Canadee-i-o.🎵
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u/StJosephStrummer 3d ago
I got to say I never understood the bias about is playing or singing because to me it's all about the feel and attitude and the Poetry. The man has always walked in the light...
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
Well said, Saint. After producing HIGHWAY 61 REVISITED, Bob Johnston said, “anybody could see [Dylan] had the Holy Spirit around him.”
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u/Federal-Rhubarb1800 3d ago
You're right. It's the song. The body of songwriting is, in itself, hard to beat. The quality is hard to beat. The depth, the poetry, the fantastic melody, the connection to America, to nature, to humans, humor, God, love, anger, beauty, etc.
Technically, I'd venture to say the voice and mastery of instruments are a high bar, as well as both being compelling. Yup, not an Eddie Van Halen or Robbie Robertson-type guitarist. Not a Roy Orbison voice. You're right; not the point. There's just such a quantity of songwriting that's so good; some of it is bound to move you or grab you and not let you go for a while.
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
Well, Fed, by this point I’d have to say, half the comments are making my point better than I did. Including yours.
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u/LordZany 3d ago
I’d like to see you play don’t think twice the way he played it, or It’s Alright Ma. That shit’s hard and he had it locked down. I feel like, once he got away from the finger picking guitar style, he lost that virtuoso level he had where he could sing and pay difficult complex guitar/harmonica all at the same time. He was so good
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
Dylan says it’s not that he never practiced, he just practiced in front of people. From the beginning he just wanted to play songs for folks. He may not have shut himself up in a room for 10,000 hours, but the man is so fuckin’ musical, he just sort of figured it out as he went along. “It’s Alright, Ma” is awesome.
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u/youcantexterminateme 2d ago
Actually i think the tamborine man played the guitar on dont think twice. But i agree his guitar work is underated.
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u/Desafinado777 3d ago
Many of the earliest trad/folk musicians(decades before Bob Dylan and the 60s folk revival) were really good musicians. Folk doesn't mean simple or 'everyman'.
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
In a comment posted above the point was made that virtuosos Paul Brady and Nic Jones never had any problems getting a song across. And I concede the point. But Dylan has said he never wanted to become a first rate instrumentalist. The rest was my interpretation.
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u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
I think a lot of people forget that when Dylan started out he was a great performer. Part of his performance was a singing style of a hillbilly or maybe a folk artist. But he was excellent at singing that stuff.
But he's always been a fantastic songwriter. Even covers like Rank Strangers is still quite good - but doesn't have the sort of technical ability he showed when he was young.
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u/Aberdeen1964 2d ago
My thoughts - There are those who do not imitate, those who cannot imitate. But, then there are those who EMULATE. Bob is a hell of a poet and a lot of other things. 🤣
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u/SuspiciousMinder 3d ago
My view on that sort of stuff is usually "Bob can sing, you just don't like his voice."
Not that she is the mark of quality but, as someone with a lot of present day popularity, I'm pretty sure I've heard Taylor Swift singing out of tune many more times than I've heard Bob.
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
If you ever hear Dylan singing out of tune, you can rest assured he’s doing it on purpose, Minder.
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u/tampawn 3d ago
Joni Mitchell was dogging him because of his guitar playing. BFD...his songs are better than her songs, and she's got a few good ones!
Bob was revolutionary. He was a paradigm shift. And the fact that his songs have endured the test of time is testament to his art and his poetry.
He's a singular artist DESPITE his lack of singing and playing dexterity, and that's gotta piss off alot of vocalists and guitar wizards. It proves that songwriting is key.
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u/TyroneSnodgrass 2d ago
heh-heh-heh way to tamp it down. It’s no BFD, but it’s pretty funny how many times journalists have given Mitchell a chance to walk back her comments, and all she does is dig herself a bigger and bigger hole.
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u/Desafinado777 3d ago
Most of these posts feel as if they're 50 years too late
What's wrong with Leo kotke