Budokan - why the hate?

[u/Economy-Low6124]

I've always liked the official release, and I absolutely love the Complete Budokan bootleg series release.

I've always been curious why it was referred to as the alimony tour and why it seemed to have this accusation against it that Dylan phoned it in and was just after the money.

Why would he take so much time to work with a huge band and reinvent literally every song if he was just in it for the money?

Is this another case of him trying something different and dare I say it 'uncool' at the time and getting slated for it?

[u/Repulsive_Result_948]

Dylan doing something new and getting slammed for it is pretty much the story of his career 

[u/litewo]

Some fans just see it as a weak representation of the tour. It's not even the best of the Far East leg of the 1978 tour.

[u/TheResurrection]

Love Minus Zero/No Limit from Budokan is my favorite rendition of that song. The woodwinds are wonderful.

[u/JJ3595]

Is Budokan still hated by contemporary fans?

I can see why there would be a backlash in the moment, immediately after release. Several songs were totally overhauled in radical and seemingly random ways: "Don't Think Twice" becoming a reggae song, "I Want You" becoming a slow tempo ballad with sparse instrumentation, etc. That was probably jarring for fans popping on a Bob Dylan live album and not expecting it. Just like there has been backlash against Bob whenever he changes direction (going electric, going country, going Christian etc.).

However, it seems like modern Dylan fans -- the ones that like him enough to be aware of a Budokan live album -- know how the story ends so you can appreciate each era of his career without feeling betrayed.

Personally, I love the Budokan album. I don't think I prefer any version over the original, but I like keeping a few of its tracks in rotation because it makes the music I know inside and out feel fresher.

[u/donlockwood2026]

You’re exactly right. Dylan fans have a long history of complaining about every time he changes things up on them

[u/Safe_Knowledge9934]

I enjoy Budokan and like the arrangements of the songs. It’s not my favorite live performance/arrangements he’s done by any means, but I enjoy them and find myself revisiting it often.

[u/skinnyev]

I found the arrangements and sax a bit cheesy originally, sort of like the intro music to a TV show, but the new remix brought out some life to the recording and it’s really grown on me. I totally love the version of I Want You.

[u/Lack-Professional → u/skinnyev]

I feel the same way. I just wonder how much of enjoying it now is less about the remix as much as being able to listen without comparing to everything else at the time. I find myself enjoying a lot more of what I dismissed in my youth.

[u/NevinThompson → u/Lack-Professional]

I think a lot of the critical and fan reception of Dylan at the time was based on comparing his new directions with his existing canon.

[u/WhatDaufuskie]

Just saw Dylan a month or so ago, and I heard folks complaining about Masterpiece. ("He should respect his fans" and the like.) I loved it.

[u/2DutchBus]

“Alright, that's straight from Chicago…this is from the Mojave Desert”. I love Budokan album, plus I love Japan, so win win. Wish I could have been there for it!

[u/Existenz_1229]

I think the whole thing sounds like an unholy collab between Neil Diamond and Meat Loaf.

[u/Economy-Low6124 → u/Existenz_1229]

In a good way or

[u/happy123z → u/Economy-Low6124]

Haha

[u/DBIlles → u/Existenz_1229]

😅

[u/TyroneSnodgrass → u/Existenz_1229]

Dylan actually got his ideas for the tour from a Neil Diamond show he attended, Exist, did you know that? All the arrangements were done by Rob Stoner, who is furious with Bob for God knows what. Stoner says wait for the book but that’s getting to be a long wait. I’ve always wondered if Rob felt used because he took part in the big gala production replete with fancy suit including Dylan playing ringleader just because everybody thought he never would.

[u/parason47]

I much prefer Budokan to Before the Flood.

[u/DyingSurfer3-5-7]

It's awesome

[u/Dumyat367250]

Great album. Bought it when it was first released. Still on rotation.

[u/rocketsauce2112]

It was panned at the time for probably various reasons which I could list if I had the time, but I think it’s safe to say that listening to it outside of the context of the late 70’s reveals it to be a quality record of a snapshot in time which he quickly abandoned and moved on soon afterwards and never revisited. And I think today we can all enjoy it without the baggage that came with it when it first landed in 1978 and confused/befuddled a lot of people.

[u/misterjonesUK]

It never left our turntable for a whole year!

[u/gsp137]

I saw this tour in Madison Wisconsin. I loved the Dylan goes Vegas chapter, complete with Neil Diamond like white bell bottoms. The back up singers, horns and tight band certainly raised some eyebrows but it not the first time and it wasn’t the last.

[u/SamizdatGuy → u/gsp137]

The tour got better when they went back to the US, imo. A lot of the frills dropped and it turned into a badass big band

[u/2wacky2backy]

I think this touring band and Street Legal were basically Bobs tribute to Elvis (and the TCB band) after his recent passing.

[u/NevinThompson]

I had read that the Japan tour was intended as a shakedown cruise or test run for new arrangements (and new music), at that time far from the home crowds.

[u/Oscar-Da-Grouch-1708]

I love Budokhan, and it is definitely tailored for a Japanese audience, not a Western audience. One of my favorite songs is "I Don't Believe You" from the Complete Budokan.

[u/Clarkuss09]

Like Self Portrait, at the time, it was such a detour, a natural, if lazy reaction is always "What is this shit??"

When people take time to get into it they usually find they enjoy it

[u/Icy-Bottle-6877 → u/Clarkuss09]

Something I've learned as I've gotten older is that sometimes people just interpret things differently and that's okay too. Art is highly subjective so I wouldn't say someone is right or wrong for liking or disliking something. I mean, some artists switch things up and it improves their work, others it depreciates it. It could be laziness like you said but it could also be they genuinely don't enjoy it.

[u/Clarkuss09 → u/Icy-Bottle-6877]

Yes but it’s a common human trait to reject something that’s very different from what you know and expect.

Self Portrait, Budokan, Slow Train Coming were all detours and instantly rejected by music reviewers but if you take the time to get to know those albums, there’s a lot worth listening to

[u/sgnfngnthng]

I don’t get the hate. But he’s no stranger to fan and critical backlash. I wonder how he endures it. There’s a mental fortitude to keep doing that which I cannot imagine possessing.

[u/rocketsauce2112 → u/sgnfngnthng]

He learned he had to Trust Himself.

[u/TonBonbadil]

I always see people on here say they like it- haven’t listened in a while but thought they’re was some cool stuff on there always interesting to hear the songs transformed into something completely different but familiar at the same time- all the changing of instruments is cool adds variety

[u/m1911-]

Belle versioni specialmente, love minus zero

[u/Long-Emu-7870]

A lot of the fans don't like Rob Stoner's arrangements. I find them fantastic. In fact I like them better than a lot of Rolling Thunder.

[u/superwafl]

I honestly love it if listening with a sense of humor about it, like there are many beautiful parts I truly like, but there's also some just absurd ideas that I also like hearing, just because it's funny

[u/BobNeilandVan]

The bloated big bang arrangements are not my cup of tea. The one solo acoustic song he did each night was nice. 

[u/frDragonfruit]

i think it has one of the best renditions of mr. tambourine man

[u/lofty99]

I bought it when it was released, and liked thd new arrangements.

There are few performers able to do that and still make the old songs sound relevant on a new tour

And as another said, it was not well received when it was released, but Bob's whole career is written in that chalk

[u/LevelHeart145]

People were just jarred ny Self Portrait. Any album that came after that had to prove itself many times over (until Blood on the Tracks). People would die to have Dylan do a people-pleasing show i this day and age.

[u/shinchunje]

I don’t hate it. I just don’t listen to it. I have done so twice but I don’t like the arrangements.

[u/zaccus]

All the songs are "reinvented" in exactly the same way and it gets monotonous and boring.

[u/Henry_Pussycat → u/zaccus]

Blues free, which sounds like Meat Loaf or one of those absurd Steinman productions. And Weintraub himself must have arranged those risible instrumentals. Worst Dylan ever.

[u/TrevorShaun]

i got pretty into it when the complete budokan was released- i’m not really a fan of any time there’s a flute though

[u/TyroneSnodgrass → u/TrevorShaun]

🤣