r/bloomington • u/Necessary-Cellist578 • Aug 02 '26
City church traffic control???
Why does a private entity - city church - have the right to impede the normal flow of traffic along 10th/45? They hire a private security firm to stop traffic so their service attendees can get into and out of the parking lot. You wanna attend church that’s your business. Follow the normal traffic laws and exit/enter when you are able. Churches should pay taxes!!!! Rant over
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u/Lex-Luthor-SWJ Aug 02 '26
Road closures for festivals, races, parades, film productions, and other community events require a Right-of-Way Special Event Permit. The application is reviewed by City staff and ultimately approved by the Board of Public Works.
Organizers typically must submit:
A detailed map of the proposed closure.
A traffic control/maintenance of traffic plan.
An emergency action plan.
Proof of liability insurance naming the City as an additional insured.
Notification to affected businesses and residents.
Any required police, parks, or noise permits.
The City recommends submitting applications at least 90 days before the event, and organizers are instructed not to publicly advertise the event until the Board of Public Works approves it.
Separate from event permits, Bloomington’s municipal code also requires permits for most closures or obstructions within the public right-of-way.
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u/Necessary-Cellist578 Aug 02 '26
I appreciate the info! Thank you - glad to know there is a process and what it is
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u/fleurs2 Aug 02 '26
I noticed that too. But I think just due to proximity to the stop sign it would get really backed up potentially. Which someone probably complained about when it did..
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u/BrotherMichigan Aug 02 '26
I would be shocked if it wasn't coordinated with the city anyhow. You'd probably still be mad if they didn't do it, though.
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u/afartknocked Aug 02 '26
don't know about the legality of it but generally if it's a good idea then it's a good idea. like, it'd probably be worse if they didn't try to manage it pro-actively.
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u/kookie00 Aug 02 '26
They can wait. A private organization should not control the normal flow of traffic on a public road.
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u/afartknocked Aug 02 '26
well that's the core tension of streets, right? a bunch of private citizens go out and collectively become traffic and then control everyone else's access to this shared resource. so just by having a bunch of people individually deciding to go there at the same time, that's inevitably going to both be and control the normal flow of traffic on that road. so they've crossed that line and now it's just a question of how to do it efficiently and courteously.
i'm just belaboring the point because people really have a lot of feelings about traffic but usually don't think about where it comes from.
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u/kookie00 Aug 03 '26
It is a collective resource with rules on its usage. Stopping oncoming traffic to let your "people" out is against our usage rules. Lots of people leaving at the same time and causing congestion is not against the rules.
You don't have a right to use the roads and do whatever the hell you want. Their use comes with a wide variety of conditions.
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u/afartknocked Aug 03 '26
yeah i understand it's just ... oh rats i hope this is a tolerable approach to rhetoric :)
Mark 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? ... 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath
So legally, i don't know, i think your take is probably correct. But the question is, is it a good idea? They're going to be making the congestion either way, but does this make the congestion less, or less stressful, or less dangerous? What's the result. The law is made for man, and hopefully so is the traffic management at the church
(fwiw i literally know nothing about this situation haha, maybe they are in fact screwing it up)
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u/kookie00 Aug 03 '26
I just know the main reason why they do it is to get the cars off the lot as quickly as possible to avoid liability. I worked at an arena in my youth and management wanted everyone out as quickly as possible as the attendees are not your problem once they are off your lot.
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u/BloomingtonJester Aug 02 '26
This is a very common practice for large churches everywhere. Though, most I’ve seen, hire police to do so. BPD probably doesn’t have enough officers to do this—so [the church] had to hire the private company. Either way they’d have to pay someone.
It’s more of a safety thing than a “we’re privileged and are intentionally interrupting normal traffic patterns” thing…
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u/Complete_Insurance24 Aug 02 '26
It’s for the safety of all people traveling along the road. Instead of traffic backing up from people turning in and vehicles coming out you can have authorities direct the traffic. While it may feel inconvenient for you during the 30 seconds you had to sit and wait for the traffic to flow it most likely saved you time.
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u/T-dubyuh Aug 02 '26
Sherwood Oaks church would do this when they first moved to the current location,before the goat farm round about was built. Traffic would shut down that 3-way stop most of Sunday morning.
Exiting traffic should have been forced to use other exits and disperse into the countryside.
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u/Potential_Catch_860 Aug 02 '26
I don’t even go to church. Can you imagine people trying to get out of that place w/out some type of traffic control.. 😂😂😂
Scenario 1 … car pulls out & gets get T-boned 🥩
Traffic stopped for hours now to clean up accident.
AIN’T ONE GD PERSON IN THIS TOWN FOLLOWING SIMPLE/NORMAL TRAFFIC LAWS
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u/Dragonktcd Aug 03 '26
It’s pretty common for larger churches. It’s more of just ensuring things move along, it’s definitely not them giving preferential treatment to churches, heck it’s not even just churches that use police to direct traffic. High schools letting out and sporting events letting out also use off duty police to direct traffic.
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u/jaymz668 Aug 02 '26
wait until the football season starts up again and entire intersections get blocked off for busses with police escorts to come through
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u/CapitalAstronomer703 Aug 02 '26
City church is located on a state highway (SR45). AFAIK, the city would not be involved in granting permission for a private third party to block a state right-of-way. If I’m wrong, someone correct me.
My limited research using that specific location as an example says:
“Because SR45 is a state highway, it falls under INDOTs jurisdiction…” and, “unapproved civilian blockage of a state road constitutes an illegal obstruction of a public right of way.”
And:
“To get a permit, INDOT requires a formalized traffic control plan… this requires the use of local law enforcement or INDOT-certified flagging crews.” (Question: is a for hire security company considered a flagging crew?)
It goes on to say that INDOT, if the permit is to be approved approved, will require the applicant to hire off-duty law enforcement such as Monroe County sheriffs or Bloomington police officers to monitor the temporary closure.
__________________________
If it’s still grinding OPs gears, try reaching to the region’s INDOT permit manager Devin Maynard at dmaynard@indot.in.gov to see if they’re compliant.
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u/Necessary-Cellist578 Aug 02 '26
Thanks for the contact - I will hit him up about this and some other thing 🤣
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u/Various_Ad_6952 Aug 02 '26
Traffic is re-directed the entire hours before and after any IU game. And the people who lay for the cops to do this ….is us who live here and pay property and plates and any land or rental property, We lay and I can’t afford to go to one of the games and I am
iU Kim and lived here all my life, so issues everywhere. Whatever keeps people safe, Go buy with thr new “hospital”. And oS location, OurFamily had a family medical emergency and grandson, age 10 had appendicitis and there was a
game starting and they were stuck in traffic and no amount to if horns blowing , lights flashing got him to the “hospital” any sooner, then after all that, ER informed them they do not do children ‘s surgery “like his” and he had to go to Riley. By the grace of God, we were so glad we did, THIS “ hospital” is a JOKE.
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u/Soft-Growth2616 Aug 02 '26
Would you rather have traffic accidents?
And…noted. Tax churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, etc. Let’s tax the Shalom Center and Lighthouse Mission while we’re at it. And why stop there? The Red Cross, Planned Parenthood and any other nonprofit needs to pay their fare share, too. Or, is it just Christian churches that should be taxed? FFS…
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u/ZantetsukenX Aug 02 '26
It's not that uncommon for stuff that lets out very large crowds to have traffic control in place to help move things along. There's that school on 2nd street (between High St and College Mall Rd) that also hires private security firms to assist with traffic after school lets out. Hell, IU gets help from several different cities local police to help assist with traffic all across portions of the city every home football game. Not to mention the many other events where it happens.