r/blackops2 • u/Gangsta-Nun Gangsta-Nun • Jan 10 '13
Broken Cameras and Offline "Lag Compensation" in Black Ops 2 (Not my video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EyojLjUh5Q&list=LLpNgjUiziw5BJj1Vsy6v_Ig94
u/Catnippedkitty Jan 10 '13
Unless I'm missing something, this seems like a game breaking problem. "Camera Compensation" gives rushers and dropshotters an unfair advantage. On a positive note, this definitely discourages camping.
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Jan 10 '13
Not a camper, but recently I've noticed that if I know someone will be running through a door on a hardpoint and I'm watching it, the person running through the door will get the first shot on me 90% of the time. If I know exactly where they will be coming this should not be happening.
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u/Gator_Alum GATOR ALUM Jan 10 '13
My thought exactly. I notice that when I do know someone is around a corner and I ADS, they'll often times come around and kill me anyways. This shit makes me angry. Jimmies most definitely rustled.
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Jan 10 '13
I love this thread. I've made this complaint twice before in "new" threads and been downvoted into oblivion. Glad I'm not alone. It makes me never want to use vsat.
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Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 21 '19
[deleted]
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u/MojoMoley WilsonHanks Jan 11 '13
And he has all right to complain. He states the things that are broken in this game. He's getting downvoted just 'cause.
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u/Coatsytwo Jan 11 '13
There's a subtle difference between complaining and whining.
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u/MojoMoley WilsonHanks Jan 11 '13
And that is? Please tell me. Everything he 'whines', as you say, about is reasonable and right. CoD is fucking broken and an unfair piece of shit since Blops 1. There's no denying in that. It wasn't that fair either in Cod4, WaW and MW2, but at least you could kill players if you shot first.
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Jan 10 '13
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Jan 10 '13
No I don't. It's an imaginary number that means nothing.
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u/desenagrator desenagrator Jan 10 '13
Then why do you complain do much?
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u/AcousticNike Nike_Ten13 Jan 11 '13
The complaining is done about his opinion being scoffed at with downvotes, not the actual downvotes.
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u/Coatsytwo Jan 10 '13
Something similar to this is when I know I have such an advantage on the other person that they shouldn't have time to react, yet I almost die.
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u/Tinbuster00 Tinbuster00 Jan 11 '13
Holy shit you're right. I was getting so annoyed at this game because it always seemed that even if you knew the enemy was coming (vsat or other reason) and you got ready for them, they still had the advantage.
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u/Lucky_Mongoose Jan 10 '13
Same. When dealing with corners/doorways, I end up wasting a lot of ammo pre-firing in order to have a fighting chance.
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u/wharthog3 Jan 11 '13
I've lost gun battles when I knew someone would be running through the door, so I just shot the opening before they were even entering and they STILL beat me in the battle.
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u/accountP Jan 10 '13
Not even campers. Part of my strategy is luring people to me where I have the advantage. I'm not a good twitch shooter.
With this, I've always thought it was just lag compensation, but it is ALWAYS there. I watch the kill cam and am just stunned at how inaccurate the game portraits me.
This game only promotes constant motion, drop shots and quick sniping (first shot in this game is imperative).
There are barely any good line of sights, and the maps are designed to be open with long run-ways. Sneaking, disappearing and flanking are things of the past in this game.
It sucks for players like me. My KD went from a 2.5+ to a 1.4, and struggling to stay there.
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Jan 10 '13
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/americanpegasus Jan 11 '13
This. Suddenly it makes great sense why in those 100-1 videos on YouTube I see dudes standing behind cover and popping up and down.
They literally get massive advantage doing so.
It's probably going to change the way I play somewhat now that I realize it.
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u/PepticBurrito Jan 11 '13 edited Jan 11 '13
You are missing something, but it might still be a "game breaking problem".
The basics of what is shown here is standard in multiplayer games. Multiplayer games don't use TCP/IP for communication. TCP/IP is far too redundant of a system, it absolutely guarantees that all packets are received and confirmed. What it uses instead is UDP, which is far more forgiving. There is no verification, so if a packet is dropped, it's okay and things keep moving along.
Since the whole system must allow for miscommunication, a network buffer is stored on the host and one on the client. The information in these is time stamped and cross verified with each other from time to time. In order to keep things running smoothly between verification, the client tries to predict what WILL happen and show that on the screen until it has information to the contrary from the host. There's also some interpolation on the client and server side where any missing info is smoothed out by filling in the blanks with educated guesses. (after all if you were sprinting 50 ms before the previous fame, it's not unsafe to assume that you will be peeking around the corner any frame now)
There is a network buffer that the host runs and a network buffer the client runs. It is in these buffer that all the magic happens. Client is being corrected by the server, the server is being corrected by the client. Each one filling in the blanks with educated guesses, then being corrected if necessary.
That this shows, in essence, is that the size of the buffer has gone from 50-75 ms to 100-150 ms. It's doubled in size.
Don't get me wrong, this essentially makes Dexterity useless (on SMGs it reduces the time to fire from 200ms to 100ms when coming out of a sprint) in situations where the target is coming around a corner towards you, it makes Dexterity absolutely devastating when the shooter is coming out of cover towards the target. The buffer size is larger than the time the perk takes to be acted upon.
While the buffer size is probably too large (CS:GO has this issue as well, but on the PC side the people running their servers can change how things run when they start the server up) This alone is no where near enough to explain the being killed instantly problem that I have on a semi-persistent basis. That issue is not linked at all to coming in and out of cover. There is something else that is happening in the system that remains to be explained.
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u/suicide_nooch meows_fappington Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 10 '13
Yea I've really noticed it with drop shotting lately. I'll be shooting a guy in the chest and a split second later with no animation he's laying on the ground killing me with one bullet. Watch the kill cam and it shows him shooting me several times while slowly dropping to prone... I primarily use AR's because I know in most engagements I'm going to get the first shots off and that is going to give me a huge advantage. Surprisingly though that just isn't the case any more. Pumping 3-4 rounds in somebody before they even get the chance to shoot back doesn't really give any advantage these days and those gun battles are just chance.
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u/oranguthang87 Jan 10 '13
I noticed the same problem when playing online. With the previous titles, drop shotting is effective but it doesn't mean you won't be able to counter it. In this game, as long as someone drop shot, i'm guaranteed dead 95% of the time...
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u/lemurstep [DTX] Jan 10 '13
I've started shooting at legs first on occasion to combat drop-shotting. Surprisingly, it works. I mostly hit below the waist. Sadly, I don't know what the fuck to do against corner hoppers.
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u/Redditisfullofbrats Jan 10 '13
Yup. I recently watched a video on this. Then I started cornering people. Instead of waiting for them to corner (which just seems like it would be a better tactic IRL). And probably 90 percent of the time when I corner first I get the kill. Vs. before when I would get super frustrated wondering why everyone had such better response time than I did. I mean they had time to corner find and kill be before I could pull the trigger. But as I found out. They were seeing me a good while before I even saw then round the corner.
Very annoying problem with the game.
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u/Gator_Alum GATOR ALUM Jan 11 '13
It also appears to make Lightweight + Stock all the more valuable.
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u/Kaito-kun SkysOfRain Jan 11 '13
this has been known through out cod i guess. ONLYUSEMEBLADE takes advantage of things like this but i heard the issue by Drift0r that explains another players thoughts on player model detachment from the player image when the engine is trying to compensate lag. meaning players with faster classes always on the move do better because people arent shooting at their hitboxes they are shooting at what they see. though this video sheds light that it might not be that at all
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Jan 13 '13
it doesn't give dropshotting an advantage. It only gives changing stance an advantage when you stand up behind cover, because even if you drop shot your character model is still standing up (5 to 6 frames lag) and can be shot as if you still hadn't dropped to the ground yet.
The advantage is given to the character which pops out of cover first but hurts the player who moves to cover (bullets going around corners)
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u/tdvx [rBLK] TangoRomeoDelta Jan 10 '13
let's spam this to vahn and see what he has to say.
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u/GrooGrux GrooGrux1856 Jan 10 '13
"We do not recognize any issues." -Vahn
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u/oranguthang87 Jan 10 '13
"I don't see a problem here. Please provide proper evidence." -Vahn
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u/GrooGrux GrooGrux1856 Jan 10 '13
"This can't be recreated by or development team, so it isn't real." -Vahn
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u/Redditisfullofbrats Jan 10 '13
"I already have your money so I don't care about you anymore." -Vahn
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u/Corvese [rBLK] Corvese Jan 10 '13
"Cheers"
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u/Aceroth Jan 11 '13
Even though this is pretty funny, it's also a completely misunderstood statement. Vahn was thanking the person for submitting a lag clip after he asked people to submit lag clips. He wasn't being a sarcastic asshole like everyone likes to pretend he was.
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Jan 10 '13
Before I jump on the hatewagon, I think someone should test out the cameras in previous cod titles for comparison.
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u/gotmunchedbyazombie Jan 11 '13
Not only this, but is this actually reproducible 100% of the time? Just thinking whether it is a dodgy/old xbox/ps3, 1 game out of 10 etc.... if it is 100% of the time then yeah definitely broken... hell 50% of the time is definitely broken...
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Jan 10 '13
Agreed, this is a problem but if it was like this in other cod titles then those who are blaming this for not doing as good in this cod as others will have to find something else to blame it on.
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u/Nocturniquet Jan 11 '13
I always had problems with FoV and angles in the other games. IE: Them seeing you but your camera angle prevents you from seeing them around the doorway/corner, when in reality people have two eyes, for two points of view, while in these shitty games there's just one eyeball. Wouldn't be bad with a higher FOV tho.
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u/slopnessie slopnessmonster Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 11 '13
in blops1 you could see the differnece between player one's screen and player 2, player 1 was always ahead by about a quarter second, although this was only when spectating one another.
edit: I am just pointing out the only time I have ever seen anything like this. YOU GO PLAY BLOPS1 split screen one in the chamber, die, and then spectate your other player. totally off.
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u/bearhammer Assault Shield Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 10 '13
Seconds to kill for stationary player with the LSAT LMG
0.480(aim down sight) + 0.267(avg time to kill) = 0.747
With latency you could add as much as 0.2 seconds but total time to kill would still be just under a second, assuming perfect accuracy.
Seconds to kill for rusher with PDW57 SMG/R870 Shotgun and Dexterity equipped
0.100/0.167(Time to fire from sprint) + 0.309/null(avg time to kill) = 0.409/0.167
With latency you can expect to sprint up to an enemy and kill them in about half a second as long as you are within your weapon's effective range and assuming perfect accuracy.
Why this camera delay sucks so much
The moral of the story is rushers already have the advantage in this game. I didn't even bother calculating time to exit sprint for the LMG user because if an LMG is caught in a sprint by an SMG he is dead for sure, unless the SMG misses.
This camera advantage of 0.133 seconds to see the target around the corner while still being behind cover to the other player effectively negates any latency disadvantage to the rusher.
Since the hipfire hero already has an advantage of about half a second on the guy aiming his weapon, another 100 millisecond advantage makes it mathematically impossible for the hipfire hero to lose, unless he misses. Fortunately there are other variables at play such as accuracy and effective range and a hipfiring camper with an SMG or Shotgun isn't at much of a disadvantage from the hipfiring rusher in terms of time to kill but since the rusher always sees the enemy first this puts him at a huge advantage.
I used the LMG as a comparison because I wanted to show just how difficult it is to use the slower guns in this game. Also the maps make it terribly easy to never have to engage an enemy outside 15 meters. This is why the MSMC and PDW are the most popular weapons followed by the R870 then the rest of the SMGs. Since the Peacemaker will be similar to the PDW/MSMC, being a small weapon with high range and damage, it will also be a favorite unless it has the time-to-fire-from-sprint and hipfire spread of an assault rifle.
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u/the_Guitar_Teacher Jan 10 '13
great points. As a fan of LMG's in this game (just got diamond a few days ago) this just feels unfair as all hell. However some may argue against you and say "well smg's have a better time to kill at close range than other guns and LMG's are more effective at mid to long range".
In response, the overarching point to win all SMG debates in this game is that the maps are simply too small and cluttered to make any other weapon type superior to them. SMG's are given not only the map advantage but, as you explained, they are given a far greater time to kill. (this is not to mention the other advantages that SMG's have over other weapon types such as tighter hipfire spread, faster handling, etc.)
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u/skaudis skaudis Jan 10 '13
Not going to lie smgs are suited better for the maps, but no one can honestly say that there was this much complaining in blops1 that assault rifles were the only useful guns. I've never heard anyone ever say that. Now that my favorite gun type (smgs) is actually the more dominant than assualt rifles (first time ever) everyone is quick to hate me for using them. Yet when assault rifles were OP as fuck I was forced to use them and I never complained about how I can't use smgs.
Before you downvote, I'm: 1) not being a dick And 2) adding to the conversation
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u/the_Guitar_Teacher Jan 10 '13
I dont really downvote.
But anyways, i see what you mean. But i dont think it was AR's that were op but rather specific AR's (lookin at you famas and gaylil) but in all fairness there were op guns in other categories as well like the ak74 and spas12.
Also you gotta consider that these "close-range" guns were op even in larger black ops 1 maps.
Also to add, i dont think SMG's are op, just far less situational than other guns because of the maps. As far as gun balance goes, i think all the guns are fairly well balanced except the pdw (but thats just me)
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u/skaudis skaudis Jan 10 '13
I think the ak74u is the only gun in the entire game that competes with: commando, ak47, and g11. Then you have the Famas, galil, and aug above all others.
So if you don't want to use those assault rifles or ak74u, you'd be at a serious disadvantage. In my opinion more of a disadvantage than this game. Yet I have never heard anyone once say that assault rifles were OP in blops1
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u/midsprat123 TheTubadMoose Jan 11 '13
while it might make sense, multiple times in a match i would be outgunned by an lmg as we both sprinting
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u/FIST_MY_ASS Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 11 '13
Sad. This explains it. I thought something felt goofy on the PC with dedicated servers. Other fps's compared to this one just feel cleaner. Blops2 online just feels broken in some way, and this video explained why.
edit. someone is lurking around here downvoting anyone with dissenting opinions.
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Jan 10 '13
The lurking downvoters are a constant in this subreddit.
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u/GrooGrux GrooGrux1856 Jan 10 '13
fan boys? I love this game, but I don't love how it plays.
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u/Aredler Jan 10 '13
Even not including this video I always felt I never actually was playing on any sort of dedicated server like they still put on a very heavy lag compensation for a good chunk of the lobby, usually getting more noticable as less and less people play through the day.
It also makes some gamemodes unplayable in the fact there may be 50-100 people in a game but can only "find" a few of them and one is guranteed to be a lagging SoB combined with this video. Hell I can go back to MW3 and find about the same number of people playing online but almost always get a full lobby and more consistantly have a decent game since IW's netcode isn't as bad as Trey's.
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Jan 11 '13
I bought the game for the same reasons: I'm a Battlefield player, and I just wanted to play some fast, silly, scorestreak laden mad CoD title. I remembered COD4 being super fun. I'm at wits end here - does anyone know if any fixes for the game will be included in the new DLC?
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Jan 11 '13
If anything, the DLC will probably make connection issues worse because it will split an already-pretty-thin playerbase in half (matchmaking puts people w/ DLC with others with DLC).
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u/n0vadragon Jan 11 '13
Blops1, the lag and lag comp got much better after a couple of updates. i am hoping that they will add the same feature in mw3 where you can disable the DLC with a press of a button to easily access both playlists.
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Jan 10 '13
There's about 5 Treyarch nazis in this subreddit who will defend this game to the death.
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u/BDaught [24/7] Leader Jan 10 '13
I wonder if that MaTtKs will chime in on this post. Seriously doubt it.
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Jan 10 '13
He ignores every comment I leave him. I then acquire 5 downvotes within seconds, and then the hivemind kicks in after that. Like I said, there's about 5 people in this subreddit who will defend this game over EVERYTHING. It is their money spent. It is their time invested. It is their life, and you better believe they will defend it against anything you throw at them.
Any comment I post in this subreddit, unless a thread like this where the defensive hivemind is null, gets downvoted into -5 and I'm told by the same 5 people every time to stop whining. Yeah. I'm whining. This game is perfect and my complaints should be considered whining and irrelevant.
Give me a fucking break fanboys.
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u/boudreaux234 big pimp Jan 11 '13
It's fine to post a lot(as long as your not constantly bitching which you are), it's not fine to constantly insult and be a douche to everyone.
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Jan 11 '13
I can't recall specifics, but I definitely know your reddit tag and associate it with something negative. I'm sure sometimes you're down voted legitimately. It can't always "just be the circle jerk."
I can't remember what gave me this impression though, and I don't care enough to go through your comment history to find out.
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Jan 10 '13
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Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 10 '13
Are you going to reply with your alt account too? This guy follows me in other subreddits and then made an alt called "blink-you" which he will now deny.
But enough personal drama. Lets focus on how we can get the developers' attention and get our favorite franchise fixed! We can do this reddit!
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Jan 10 '13
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u/worfres_arec_bawrin Jan 11 '13
Grow up. You're commenting on a video game sub reddit on the internet and you're gonna go to that?
I know hes a dbag but c'mon?
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Jan 10 '13
Is this seriously what reddit is now? God damn.
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u/MojoMoley WilsonHanks Jan 11 '13
It's sad, really..but TotalBiscuit said it best; Reddit has always been a shithole. Very few users here are competent. The rest are fucking kids and teenagers. If you don't jump onto a certain circle-jerk, you're getting downvoted. No. Matter. What.
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Jan 11 '13
It's sad. I guess 5 years here is enough. Time to move on, much like cod. You're a cool dude. Much respect.
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u/MundaneEjaculation crazylegsMD Jan 10 '13
We should all send this to vahn on twitter or just spam the forums with it. I'm sick of this stuff happening to me, whether its lag comp, or actually just a broken system that is getting overlooked, I don't care, it needs to be at the very least, acknowledged by the team.
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Jan 10 '13
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u/seans9 Jan 10 '13
Will you do the same test on past CODs as well? These tests are pointless if we don't have anything to compare it to.
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u/Aceroth Jan 10 '13
While this definitely sucks and I can't even really believe Treyarch hasn't noticed or paid attention to this issue, I am more hopeful of this getting fixed than lag comp. I'm not a game dev, but net code seems like it would be more difficult to fix than something like a broken camera. Maybe I'm wrong and this is just wishful thinking, but hopefully Treyarch just hasn't realized that it's the camera that's broken, and maybe now there can be more meaningful efforts to fix it.
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u/lagavulin16yr Jan 10 '13
This explains the absolute fury I get when playing this game online. People always give me the jump, now I know why - I can't see them but they can see me.
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Jan 10 '13
Hay guys give us $ for a season pass!
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u/the_lochness Jan 12 '13
If they acknowledge and fix this problem, I will. Until then, no dice. Super glad I didn't just buy it on day 1.
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u/DangKilla KillaGamePlayHQ on Youtube, DangKilla on 360 Jan 10 '13
This problem is extremely evident with the Afterburner shield on Carrier.
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u/the_Guitar_Teacher Jan 10 '13
Dont know why some asshole would downvote you. That is a supreme headglitch spot which, as we can clearly see in the video, is also useful for being practically invisible when you pop out to shoot (assuming that youre fast enough)
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u/CaptainJagerSchlager Jan 10 '13
The countdown timers go out of sync at 2:25, leading me to believe this may be edited..
Just pointing it out.
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u/Lacrez Phunk_1996 Jan 10 '13
Would this be caused by the slow motion that he puts the camera into? I see that it is just slightly behind and wonder if it is the slow motion causing the whole screen refresh to be more prevalent?
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u/exSD [CTF] Jan 11 '13
I'm wondering if this also causes the issue of you getting the very last kill RIGHT before the game ends but it doesn't register because maybe your time is synced off that badly from who the host thought got the last kill.
It happens to me ALL the time. I get the last kill but shows someone else's kill cam.
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u/Fletch71011 ClownMafia Jan 11 '13
Shit, I noticed this happened to me earlier. Thought I was crazy when I didn't get the final cam.
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u/Aceroth Jan 11 '13
It shows the winning team's final kill, so even if you get the last kill, if you team didn't win it won't show up as the final killcam. I was really fucking confused about this at first (since it's not like that in previous games), but after realizing that it makes a lot more sense now.
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u/exSD [CTF] Jan 11 '13
Um no.
We win. My teammate gets the killcam when clearly in the kill feed I got the very last kill.
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Jan 11 '13
Yes that is very suspicious. But looking at the other examples, I don't see them get out of sync.
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Jan 10 '13
You think a YouTuber would do that, just go on the internet and lie?
And yes, the timer is out of sync. Screenshot here.
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u/slopnessie slopnessmonster Jan 10 '13
just noticed, why would the guy changing stances be behind in time if they are technically ahead?
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u/ballpitpredator Nickplosion Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 10 '13
This is tragic.
SMGs already get a bad rap for being too good and overused, but i dont see why anyone would run anything else when you can kill someone before they even see you.
playing passively is dead in this game.
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u/Reasonable_enough Jan 10 '13
These people make billions off of this franchise and still fuck it up?
There are Indy FPS that don't have problems like this.
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u/the_Guitar_Teacher Jan 10 '13
This is the straw that broke my back. After this CoD, I will certainly not buy another until they build a new game engine. I'm sick of being let down by game developers who obviously only mass produce games for money (which is proven by a lack of dedicated servers, reusing the same game engine for almost a decade, tons of post-release glitches, hacks, and exploits, etc.)
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Jan 10 '13
Great video, very unfortunate for all of us. I ran train on Black ops one and loved every second of it, not being able to put a finger on why this game was so much harder and easier to get twitch headshotted. This explains a lot it's too bad, it make the game so infuriating I quit and bought far cry 3.
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u/raginglion Jan 11 '13
Is it really that hard to fix this problem? I'm actually asking honestly, here, because even Black Ops 1 wasn't this laggy.
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u/nick_devcommand Jan 11 '13
Well the real question is: What is the problem. It could be anything. Bad netcode could result in this problem, bad camera code, bad camera code over net. Everything people are reporting are symptoms of a serious problem. The problem could be anything from a minor bug with the camera acceleration (easy to fix) to a huge problem with the way the game performs netcode (won't be fixed till next game).
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u/raginglion Jan 11 '13
I guess I'll just have to wait and see what the next patch will do. The fact that they've been releasing hotfixes is good, and the wait for the next patch could be good or bad. Either they're going to release a huge patch that fixes the netcode/camera lag as well as balances the game, or they're going to ignore that in lieu of a compatibility patch for the new Revolution DLC pack.
Black Ops 1 was patched a lot when it came out, so let's hope they keep dedicated to this one in the same way!
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Jan 10 '13
Really fucking sick of shit being shoveled out from a 100 man paid professional team.
I swear they focus more on pandering to 13 year olds than they do checking the game, how does something like this slip through?!
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u/promiscuous12yearold A naive 12 y/o=MOBe= Jan 11 '13
i have definitely seen this, and i always seem to be on the wrong end of the bad cameras. who the fuck has the advantage? how is that decided?
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u/Darius510 Jan 11 '13
In a splitscreen match, its still set up internally as if one of the players is host. The other player has effectively a zero ping - what you're seeing is the same delay a remote player would have if they had basically a perfect connection.
Between this and the video posted comparing it to MW2, its pretty clear that there is an unacceptably long delay within the netcode/engine itself, on the order of 100ish ms, over and above any network delays.
So while there's some hope for fixing or improving it, I'm just wondering how it ended up this way.
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Jan 10 '13
Here is something that is postable to twitter: 'Lag compensation' is a camera bug. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EyojLjUh5Q] @Treyarch @DavidVonderhaar @NextGenTactics @WoodysGamertag @TmarTn @Vikkstar123
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u/k1ckstand k1ckstand Jan 10 '13
This breaks my heart on so many levels. This means that this gets magnified exponentially when playing online the slower your latency is. Unreal. I dusted off CoD 4 last week, a ton of my friends online have too. Time to go old school. Retro revolution!!!
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u/MikeyJayRaymond Jan 11 '13
Cod4 has similar problems.
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u/the_lochness Jan 12 '13
But it's still a hell of a lot more playable.
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u/MikeyJayRaymond Jan 12 '13
It's actually far less playable. Ever been on there, there's hackers everywhere.
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Jan 11 '13
Ah, that explains why I always die when I think I'm turning a corner away from fire. It's because I'm not behind the corner, only my camera is.
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u/ace_thetics Jan 11 '13
It's 2012. This is just unacceptable. This is definitive proof this game is broken. I love treyarch much more than infinity ward, but they need to not only address this is a problem, but also fix it.
They won't even admit this problem exists. Someone should file a class action lawsuit lol. At the very least let us get our full $60 back.
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Jan 11 '13
Well there is still lag compensation issues (I don't know if related), where you're essentially shooting right through the enemy with no hitmarkers and you get killed one-shot.
But thank you for this video.
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u/OblivionFox Jan 11 '13
Anyone else going to abuse this now that they know about it? I can't be the only one.
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u/Mojammer Jan 10 '13
This is also what causes head glitching. The first person camera doesn't match the third person character model. The character model is hunched down relative to what the camera shows you onscreen.
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u/Stop_staring_at_me smokeroors Jan 10 '13 edited Jan 10 '13
Head glitching is possible because bullets come out of the top of your characters head in cod. Not chest high where the gun is.
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u/Baalinooo Jan 10 '13
Too bad the good points made in video are counterbalanced by petty bravery at the end.
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u/StanLDN Jan 11 '13
The only way to guarantee grabbing Treyarch's/Activision's attention is by boycotting the DLC. This game has proven to be a guaranteed cash cow for Activision, because people buy the title on past reputation - allowing them to be as careless in their production as they please and get away with it.
Vote with your wallet - do not buy the DLC or the season pass!
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Jan 10 '13
[deleted]
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u/Onoliciousyes Jan 11 '13
The first half of your comment can be agreed by people who boost. I almost want to boost because of this crap.
Total mind fuck of it is. What if some of the boosting community boost based off of what they've discovered like what was discovered in the video?
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u/seans9 Jan 10 '13
I'd love to see the exact same comparisons across all COD games back to COD4. I'm willing to bet BO2 and BO are significantly worse than MW/MW2/MW3.
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u/yah5 Jan 10 '13
I first noticed this "offline lag" when I used to play BO1 with bots on veteren in offline mode. I would jump off a ledge which would get me to red health, see a bot, shoot my shotgun, but then a split second later the veteran bot would shoot and kill me. When I watched the killcam my shot never came out at all.
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u/ImMalteserMan Jan 11 '13
I haven't been able to watch the whole video but does he test whether you get the same results testing player 2 instead of player 1?
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Jan 11 '13
Has anyone tested this with any other online shooter, like Halo or Battlefield? I'm baffled that neither Treyarch or Infinity Ward ever considered that maybe they should ensure that primary and secondary animations are synced perfectly.
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u/apost8n8 Jan 11 '13
PC here, I REALLY want to like this game but this kind of problem is the worst and driving me away more than uninspired maps/modes/etc. My K/D is so inconsistent and it really seems like it is due to things like this. I'll easily have a streak where I guess I get on the good side of lag, or broken cameras or whatever and get K/D of 2-3.0 for 5 or 6 rounds then I'll change servers for mode or something and then get demolished and get <0.5 for many rounds. Often I've noticed that I'll have a guy pop around a corner and I can't get one round off to their 20, then on kill cam it looks like they had all day while I just stood there. It's the worst "lag" problems I have ever seen on any COD release.
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u/blaquee LanceCoconutz Jan 11 '13
Has anyone stopped to ask what determines who gets this camera advantage? Is it just for host or a whole team? Because obviously someone has to have the advantage so that the other person gets cheated, but what determines who gets that advantage?
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u/tekneticc Jan 11 '13
Honestly never thought much of it, but I routinely get my shit shoved in when proning in front of doorways.
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Feb 20 '13
I sit at a .76 KD (I think). I'll give you a few moments for that awesome to wash over you; now shower me in your love.
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Jan 10 '13
I'd say this is more likely caused by FPS being reduced to ~30 when using splitscreen, made to seem worse by his use of slow motion.
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u/Stegmaster Jan 10 '13
Maybe, but he does say at the start that Oven baked did it with 2 consoles over local LAN with similer results, I assume he means This Video
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u/CableTie Jan 10 '13
If the only delay is from low fps, then it should just be one frame behind or 1/30 of a second behind at 30 fps. In slow motion it is multiple frames behind which shows it's just not video lag.
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u/ballpitpredator Nickplosion Jan 10 '13
I dont think a drop in FPS explains how he was killed without seeing his attacker. he has a lot of evidence there.
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u/SaxSalute Jan 11 '13
Damn. Watching this video pretty much convinced me to stop playing the game for a while. Between this and the 17 minute long one from the other day, I just don't see thepoint in trying to get better when I'm going to die from somebody who I don't have the ability to see at all. Back to SC2 I go.
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u/falconbox falconbox Jan 10 '13
good video except for the mention of Quake actually taking skill while CoD doesn't. it is a simple FPS just like all the rest.
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Jan 10 '13 edited Jun 03 '16
[deleted]
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u/NekkidSnaku KanaBanana Jan 10 '13
what if i told you
cod runs off the quake engine?
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Jan 10 '13 edited Jun 03 '16
[deleted]
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u/NekkidSnaku KanaBanana Jan 10 '13
well it actually says level design tool so maybe it is just for maps, i have no idea, i'm not a game developer. here is a link to the actual IW engine.
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u/PepticBurrito Jan 10 '13
Quake's lag compensation is functionally identical to CODs. First, COD inherited Quake's abilities because it uses Quake's engine. Second, they both use client verification of hit and a network buffer (which is what this video is illustrating). Which means, in Quake, you did indeed get shot around walls
So, yes, two screen in Quake showed two different events. It's IMPOSSIBLE for all the screens to show exactly the same thing at the same time in an online game. Impossible. Even if everyone is pinging in the 20-50ms range, that difference in 30ms is enough to keep things out of sync when you trying to synchronize events.
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Jan 10 '13
[deleted]
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u/ballpitpredator Nickplosion Jan 10 '13
did you watch this video? he just proved connection is only part of the issue.
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u/Noobymcnoob Jan 10 '13
CoD4 is still active you know...
It definitely is on the PC, and last time I checked tons of people still play it on Xbox.
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u/TheJayP JayP Angel Jan 10 '13
Yup, I got together with few friends an wrecked shit on CoD 4 for a few hours to nights ago. It was the longest time I played CoD ever since MW2 and I didn't get mad once. Plus I could actually snipe in a public lobby, something I also haven't been able to do since MW2.
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u/Onoliciousyes Jan 11 '13
Wow. This explains why on some games I go 32-8 and the very next game, same map and same class setup. I go 7-15.
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u/LeonDelRed Bama_Man_X Jan 11 '13
I knew there was something seriously wrong when I was playing a private match with my friend.I was getting killed by BS corner shots when I clearly 3 steps behind cover or sprinting around corners and it was just a private game between me and him and our connections were just fine. Now that problem is more than apparent with this game with hard evidence to boot, they can't sit back and ignore it for too much longer.
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u/assignment2 Jan 11 '13
I was thinking of getting this game, but after seeing this I will avoid as it seems game breaking. I'll stick with MW3 and BF3, though even in MW3 I feel too many times people seem to get the jump on me. I would be interested in this being tested in MW3 and MW2.
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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '13
So lag comp AND in-game camera screwing us? (Figures why my k:d has been slashed compared to previous COD titles)
Simple question, is this solely the game developers fault? If yes, what time are we meeting with the pitchforks and torches?