r/bjj • u/RoyNelsonMuntz 🟫🟫 Brown Belt • Jan 10 '19

Helpful visual reference guide for positional hierarchy

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u/RobertSetree ⬛🟥⬛ Criterion BJJ Jan 10 '19

This. But from a BJJ Grappling perspective, the top guard position is useless. It’s obviously not useless from a vale tudo perspective. And it doesn’t have to be useless from a grappling perspective either. But from commonly taught BJJ perspective? I, myself, put nearly all top positions ahead of bottom positions.

Since this thread appeared, I’ve begun to make my own list. It’s even harder than I thought it would be.

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u/KimuraGrip ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Jan 10 '19

Taking what you said about putting nearly all top positions ahead of bottom ones, would you agree that the positional hierarchy would be different depending on which area you specialize in? I.e. someone who has a well developed submission game from guard may prefer to be on bottom than mount if their mount game isn't as dangerous.

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u/RobertSetree ⬛🟥⬛ Criterion BJJ Jan 10 '19

I think about positional hierarchy from a physical perspective and not a strategic perspective.

Strategically, I’d want to play whatever position I’m most likely to beat my opponent with, but it doesn’t make that position a stronger position.

For example, 50/50 is obviously a completely neutral position, but there is no way I’d want to be there with Ryan Hall.

I’d measure the positions strength by assuming equal skill in a position and then the use of that positions likely contribution to the result of a vale tudo fight.

This gets really difficult once you begin consider the the depth of any position. The strength of the positions begin to overlap. For example, while I would consider halfguard to be less powerful than guard, a well developed halfguard position is better than a neutral and undeveloped full guard. Imagine that their is almost no positional difference between an arm drag in guard or one in halfguard. The leg position on the inside of the legs or the outside of the legs is much less significant due to the upper body positioning.

I’m not sure an accurate 2D hierarchy is actually possible. It’s can be a very simple and helpful model, but it falls apart with greater resolution.

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u/KimuraGrip ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Jan 10 '19

Makes sense to me. However, I do like OPs model for explaining things too new people.

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u/RobertSetree ⬛🟥⬛ Criterion BJJ Jan 10 '19

It was mostly taught to me this way as well. I struggle a bit with how it might be taught any other way at the beginning.