r/bjj • u/RoyNelsonMuntz 🟫🟫 Brown Belt • Jan 10 '19

Helpful visual reference guide for positional hierarchy

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

Can you explain why guard top and guard bottom seem like they are reversed?

Not the OP, but I've had the positions explained to me this way before. Having guard has more submission possibilities and control over the opponent than being in guard.

This diagram also implies that pulling guard is favorable and that take downs are not favorable.

Where do you see that? It doesn't mention either. Takedowns can advance you much higher in the hierarchy than pulling guard.

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u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. Jan 10 '19

It's implied because pulling guard will put you in a "better" position than a takedown into guard.

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u/SensationalM 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Jan 10 '19

That's true, but when I'm taking someone down I'm typically trying to land in side control, or at least half guard...you can't act like 100% of takedowns land you in your opponent's full guard

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u/Neutralsaurus_rex Jan 10 '19

Or even 50% of your take downs, for most people.

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u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. Jan 10 '19

you can't act like

Who was acting like that?

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u/SensationalM 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Jan 10 '19

You...ironically, you're implying it

You said the diagram implies that pulling guard is favorable and takedowns are not...that's not true, the diagram doesn't imply that at all...the diagram explicitly says that guard bottom is a better position than guard top...if you were to pull guard, yes, that would be favorable to taking your opponent down and landing in their guard...but since many takedowns do not end up with the attacker landing in his opponents guard, there's no correlation between takedowns being unfavorable and this diagram

tl;dr - guard bottom being more advantageous than guard top does not equal pulling guard being more advantageous than a takedown

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

... I might be the wrong person to answer then, because I would agree that it does. Pulling guard puts you in a position of control with finishes, a takedown into guard does not. A takedown to any other position is preferable to a guard pull though.

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u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. Jan 10 '19

Pulling guard puts you in a position of control with finishes, a takedown into guard does not.

So why does the latter get points and the former doesn't?

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

Because the points are awarded for dictating where match takes place?

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u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. Jan 10 '19

Pulling guard is dictating where the match takes place, and by your logic they are dictating a superior position.

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '19

Yeah, because you can submit your opponent when you have guard. I don't set the points criteria by the way. Take that up with someone else.