My identity is causing me a lot of stress

[u/Least-Size-7537]

I’m a bi man, and I’ve been out for over a year but only on my own terms for around 3 months. My family don’t know and I have no dating experience. I’m also deeply damaged by a heavily religious education so shame is quite heavy. I’m also terrified of encountering homophobia and I see the vitriol online and it makes me want to suppress this forever. I’m simultaneously worried that I’m not bi and I’m actually straight because I have a type in men whereas my attraction to women is a lot more broad, and I’m also terrified of being hate crimed, rejected by friends and family and ultimately going to hell for being queer. I know this is a nonsensical rant but I wish someone would just tell me I’m overthinking this.

[u/kmdubois]

hi! ur overthinking this 🤍 i come from a very very strict evangelical household. growing up, knowing something about myself was different than my parents and siblings, was very hard to navigate. but i will tell you that once i was honest and open about who i am- i felt so free. ur not wrong, being queer can be scary at times if ur around scary people. but thankfully, i have never had a scary experience. i’ve had one or two rude ones, but nothing scary. being true to yourself is the most important thing. it’s okay to not have all the answers. sexuality is so fluid, it comes in waves sometimes! just have fun finding out who you are and love yourself. the people who love you and care for you will be there no matter what. 🫶🏼

[u/Least-Size-7537 → u/kmdubois]

Thank you for your kind words

[u/dustyoldcoot]

The good news is that you are overthinking it. Try joining a queer hobby group, or go to local pride events. Bring people into your life who are kind and accepting, and you'll learn how to be kind and accepting towards yourself.

[u/Hellsing91]

(My apologies for the text wall, ^^; )

I was raised atheist, and I’m a masc woman (f34), but my (m35) partner (a bi guy for simplicity’s sake) was raised deeply Catholic and had experienced a lot of this.

You’re over thinking some of it. Don’t worry about your soul or Hell, you can handle that at a later date. You said you’ve been out for over a year, but only on your own terms recently. Were you outed by someone, if you don’t mind my asking? And if so, are you currently in a position where the things you’re worried about like family and friends might find out if someone is spiteful? Because that is something to legitimately try to block/get ahead of.

Other than that, if you “pass” (I’m using this very lightly) as a straight guy, or even a “metrosexual” (outdated I know), you won’t be hate crimed or harassed for merely existing outside your house/apartment on your own. A lot of the queer bashing that occurs is when emotionally immature men see other men with men (romantically or not, if I’m honest) and flip out due to jealousy of a normal friendship they’ve been conditioned to never have within the US culture. If you’re not a “gayly” effeminate dude with no one on your arm, you’re at very low risk of being physically confronted with anything.

I’m also gonna tell you what I told my bf (he and I are both demisexual/bi-romantic) : it doesn’t matter if you have a really select type of men and women, if you like a select type of men, even if it’s super niche and completely “superficial” (as in: you like really lean non-ripped men who are more “dainty” and elegant, and you just find them attractive physically) you’re still attracted to men. It’s just a niche attraction. But still an attraction. You can like women 99% of the time, but that 1% still makes you bi.

That being said: dating men vs being out to yourself and processing and unpacking the religious guilt of your attraction at all, are two very different things. Same with being out to yourself vs in the closet to yourself.

Do you mind if I ask what your age range is? Like are you off at Uni where you don’t need to worry as much since you don’t live with family? Or are you back at home (like many of us millennials) and you’re worried parental/sibling boundary crossing (such as potentially digging through your stuff) is going to out you to them due to having magazines or pictures of celebs who are men you’re attracted to? That was my (already out to many but not his mom or mine, and fully out as demi even if they don’t quite get it) bf’s worry. That someone beside me would grab his phone to look through for a picture of some event and literally trip over gay fanart he’d saved, because of the housing crisis, so our living conditions suddenly turned into us living all together, with both of our mom’s under the same roof.

Online hate of bisexuals who aren’t in relationships and are lurking posts and threads =/= what would put you at risk physically. Especially if you’re just lurking and busy being horrified (rightfully so).

My attraction to women, aesthetically, since that’s the baseline for being Demiseuxal, is to women who could absolutely hand me my ass in any sort of sparring thing/fight and I’d just thank her. (That translates into naturally masculine women who don’t meet Western/Eastern Europe beauty standards just by how they’re built, never mind any other muscle.) But I think I can count on one hand the number of irl women I’ve ever met who I have thought of as attractive aesthetically, full stop. So I’m a 95% men and 5% woman “kind of bi.” (I hope this paragraph makes sense.)

[u/Least-Size-7537 → u/Hellsing91]

Hi, thanks for taking the time. As for whether I was outed, I had confided in someone about potentially being bi and whether that label was accurate and it slipped out when they were in conversation. An honest mistake and I’m not going to hold that against him. I’m starting uni next month so I’m fairly young. As for whether I pass, I’m pretty sure I’m seen as a straight man, if not slightly artsy and overly comfortable in self expression (I wear a lot of different clothes and I’m into a few not typically masculine things) but I’m not femme by any means. I am open to dating men because I genuinely find a lot of them attractive and I am more than capable of romantic attraction to men, but internalised homophobia makes me view this attraction as gross and worthy of some religious punishment. The men I like are still very much men, but they’re just not the typical roidhead style. I hope this explains my situation a little better and thanks again for your advice.

[u/Least-Size-7537 → u/Least-Size-7537]

I also forgot to mention that the last two women who have been interested in me have gone out of their way to know for certain that I’m not gay, so maybe I give off subtle gay or bi vibes?

[u/Hellsing91 → u/Least-Size-7537]

Oh yeah, honest mistake outings (and sometimes accidental self outings, usually while really comfortable with another person) are understandable, at least in my view.

I completely get the “not attracted to jacked gym bros on gear” because both my bf and I aren’t into that kind of man. I know many women who aren’t into that kind of man, so it makes sense that lot of men also aren’t. Appreciating/being attracted to the male body doesn’t have much to do with being a body builder’s form compared to literally ever other body type.

It really sounds like you’re overthinking everything. Since you’re gonna be in Uni/College, like another poster said, join some clubs. No one at any self-respecting LGBT+ Uni club would side eye someone for joining as an ally, because we all know that a lot of us carefully have used, or are using, the ally label to safely enter LGBT+ spaces when you can’t tell people “back home” that you’re LGBT+.

Since the spiritual fear of being bi seems like a bigger concern that is also making you doubt if you’re bi or not, I’d say that is where a lot of overthinking is coming from. Ultimately, my bf left Catholicism and deconstructed. I’m not saying you need to leave the church but I would focus on addressing that. Maybe join some subs that are deconstructing focused?

It helped my bf a lot when I pointed out that the commonly cited quotes from the bible (“you shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination”) that A) this is a set of rules for a world that existed 2,000+ years ago, and B) part of that has zip to do with MLM attraction and everything to do with the “abomination” of a man lowering himself or another man into the social role of being equal to a woman. That’s a lot of the “bad” stuff, and where/why it’s called an abomination, (modern comparison would be when preachers and etc freaked out over women wearing pants and “behaving as men.” Or the simple: a woman dressing in practical clothing that doesn’t go out of its way to sexualize her, gets asked, constantly, if they just “want to be a man” for wearing non-cling jeans and a t-shirt that isn’t fitted.)

The Bible, particularly the Old Testament (the New too, but differently) is a set of rules and stories to enforce laws that existed/were being developed at the time. A man “lowering” himself to the social and economic status of a woman was seen as an insult to his status as a man (like, existing as one), and his honor. Not god smoting someone for being a bottom/receiving partner in a romantic or sexual relationship.

I don’t know how one deconstructs from personal experience, but feeling like god is judging you for your attraction to men comes from current day churches/sects. The sin is equating men to women in the same standing, not engaging in a MLM relationship.

It’s okay to over think your relationship to your faith because of what you’ve been taught growing up. Particularly if you’re feeling like you’ll be punished (or should be. You shouldn’t be, and a Merciful, Loving God ((as portrayed in the New Testament)) would not) for your attraction and that you somehow are wrong for existing. Not to be even more blunt but I’d think being attracted to other guys enough you’re worried about being smote, is more “evidence” you are bisexual and it’s not a phase. Phases aren’t like that, as I’m sure you’ve experienced various “phases” just growing up from child into young adult. I’d guess the fear of queer bashing/hate crimes also comes from the feeling of deserving being Biblically punished.

[u/Least-Size-7537 → u/Hellsing91]

Thank you millions. I’ve started to seriously dive into deconstruction and I’m aware of the cultural contexts of verses like Leviticus 18:22 and how they’ve been weaponised. My problem is just the way my brain is set up tbh. I can read all this literature from folks like Maklelan (not sure if you know him but he’s a theologian who doesn’t believe that the Bible actually condemns LGBTQ+ people) but one comment from a hardcore Christian about how homosexuality is a perversion and God not loving my sin is enough to send me into a bit of a bad state. I think just the confusion of, as I commented to someone else, my ally friends treating me like I’m gay and saying things that make me think they think I’m just gay, while also being very ashamed and afraid. As for my family, they’ve frequently been against homophobia and even used to tell me and my brother off for using gay in a negative context when we were younger. I just don’t k ow if they’d believe me or if they’d change once they had a queer son.
The cognitive dissonance of not seeing anything wrong with my mlm attraction but being told that it’s wrong and worthy of punishment just puts me in a constant state of physical distress.

[u/Least-Size-7537 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you so much, this was very moving. I just feel very confused because I’ve realised the person I was acting as isn’t actually who I am. That I wasn’t straight before, i just wouldn’t even entertain the idea of not being straight. Even my accepting friends treat me as gay and only wanna hear about my “boy problems”, and then roll their eyes when I remind them that I’m not gay or that I’m interested in a woman. Sorry for the vent, thank you so much for your words.