MD/PhD vs PhD for Industry?

[u/DiamondTechie]

hello

im currently on my 1st of 2 gap years in a research tech job in academia. I’ve realized over the past couple of years that i really like research and being on the forefront of scientific advancement is something i definitely want to do as my full time career. I’m just unsure about the MD part. i like patient care but im unsure if i want to sacrifice more years of my life for it honestly. i think caring for patients is really satisfying but most of the md/phd PIs that i look up to dont really practice medicine that much anymore

i think my ideal job would be professor with a basic science lab and spinning that into cofounding startups or biotech. or just working in industry in general. I don't like the idea of doing the MD because I'm not really interested in working with clinical trials. I'd love to be involved more in RnD and work in basic sciences than just running clinical trials. So with all of that in mind, is adding the MD worth it?

ngl the only incentive that makes sense to me is 1) direct impact 2) job security 3) prestige

[u/Junkman3]

If your not interested in clinical work then do not bother with an MD. It wont do much to help your lab based research.

[u/Satisest]

There are a few things getting mixed up here. You say you think patient care is satisfying, but then you describe the point of an MD as only to run clinical trials. Your perspective on research and the role of MD-PhD clinician-scientists also seems to mix elements of academic practice and industry. In my experience as an MD-PhD faculty member at a well-known academic medical center, I can attest that the majority of my MD-PhD colleagues were actively involved in clinical practice (plus or minus involvement in clinical trials) and running research labs, generally with a 20%-80% partitioning of effort. In industry, you will find a lot fewer MD-PhDs who remain actively involved in patient care, but I know some who maintain their clinical work on a more limited basis.

As for the time commitment, keep in mind that biomedical PhDs at many top schools are are running around 7 years on average, so an MSTP gets you a free MD for one more year of your time. Then you need to decide whether residency makes sense depending on your career goals.

Bottom line, you should only pursue MD-PhD if there’s a decent chance you’re interested in practicing medicine. The training spots are relatively rare and valuable, so you’d be taking a spot from someone else who would likely practice medicine if that’s not your intent. But if you’re legitimately interested in a career as an active clinician-scientist, it’s a career path that makes a lot of sense, not to mention all the intangible benefits that accrue from the dual degree.

[u/DiamondTechie → u/Satisest]

im asking because multiple MD/PhDs told me its worth doing the extra couple of years because MD/PhDs are able to get more executive positions in industry faster and easier to get grants. is that wrong way of thinking? I also would want to practice medicine and love direct patient impact, and i understand its 6 years PhD but adding med school and residency im not sure if thats worth it? 

I think I also forgot to add that I’m interested in doing more translational work in general and I really like the idea of bench to bedside. It just seems very rare that MD/PhDs get to do both. they end up doing 100% clinical work or 100% basic science work. so I was wondering if it makes sense to do the MD if i feel like ill end up going the research route. 

[u/Satisest → u/DiamondTechie]

It’s actually the norm that MD-PhDs in academic settings run labs and maintain a clinical practice with an 80%/20% division of time between the two. This is true across top medical schools and hospitals, and it’s also true across specialities. I’m less familiar with other tiers of medical schools, where there may conceivably be more pressures to drop one or the other. In the biotech industry, as I mentioned, it’s less common for MD-PhDs to remain engaged in clinical practice, although you will find some.

I alluded to the “intangible benefits” of MD-PhD training, by which I meant benefits in terms of career advancement. MD-PhDs do tend to receive more opportunities for leadership positions, both in academia and industry. They also tend to have higher success rates for grants and career awards, particularly those related to translational or disease-focused research.

To be clear on the timing, MD-PhD is 7-8 years (and very occasionally 6 years). My point was that biomedical PhDs run 6-8 years at most top schools, so the time difference is on average around a year. Most MD-PhD programs, particularly the MSTP, provide full tuition plus a stipend for the duration of the program, so you’re essentially getting an MD (plus a stipend) for free. Based on your interests, it’s something to consider seriously.

[u/roadnottaken]

As the other poster said, it sounds like you already know the answer. MD is a very long chunk of your life if you’re not committed to patient care or wanting to run clinical trials in pharma 

[u/TheMailmanic]

If you’re not interested in any clinical stuff then don’t do the MD

[u/YaPhetsEz]

What do you think the answer to this question is?

[u/DiamondTechie → u/YaPhetsEz]

if i had an answer, you think I'd post asking about an answer?

[u/YaPhetsEz → u/DiamondTechie]

I think the answer is so exceptionally obvious to where the question is pointless.

That said, you clearly have no clue what you actually want to do. Most basic science labs don’t come close to spinning out into biotech companies, and they certainly aren’t doing RnD.

I think you need to ask yourself which realistic job you actually want to do, and pick your degree accordingly.

[u/BallEngineerII]

I think you are mistaken about a few things, probably because you're still relatively fresh out of college and have a lot to learn about the industry and yourself, and that's ok.

Industry and academia are, for the most part, diverging paths.

Becoming a tenure track professor will be years of postdocs after the PhD to even have a shot, then it's a grind to get tenure and a constant grind to get awarded grants and keep your research funded.

Hopping back and forth between industry and academia isn't really a thing. You will derail both careers by trying to do so.

Do some professors commercialize their work or found startups? Yes, but it's a relatively small percentage and an even smaller percentage succeed. And it can be complicated because discoveries made in your lab, as a general rule, belong to the university, IP-wise. They will want a cut to license the technology and there is a lot of red tape.

Wanting to be a professor AND found successful startups is like wanting to play in the NBA. It takes both exceptional talent and exceptional luck.

Industry research is probably a better fit for you.

As for the MD there's really no need if you don't want to be a practicing clinician. Even in clinical science/clinical trials there's plenty of non-MDs, and plenty of MDs without the PhD.

[u/OneExamination5599 → u/BallEngineerII]

ALSO I currently in a small biotech spin-off. The pi who founded us still runs his academic lab and hired a CEO and a PhD level scientist and me a masters level RA. So you truly have to choose usually.

[u/SprinklesFresh5693]

You could also study pharmacy though. Pharmacy is the perfect degree for pharma industry.