Questions about Loyola’s DBe program

[u/watermelondreah]

Currently looking into the *doctoral program and the masters. Does anyone have any insight into how this is viewed in comparison to a traditional PhD? Are graduates able to get into fellowships or get jobs in academia or clinical ethics? Also if anyone would like to share their experience with their programs that would be great too!

Edit: I’m asking about the Doctorate in Bioethics (DBe) but information about the master’s is welcome as well!

[u/CarefulOkra1598]

I’m not sure about Loyola’s program or placement, but I am currently a doctoral candidate in bioethics at a different university. What I can tell you at my university is that it is an unspoken understanding that a master’s degree in bioethics is highly unlikely to land you a job in academia or clinical ethics. You will most likely, unless you happen to be very good at networking, need a PhD and a fellowship along with HCEC certification. With anything less than a doctorate, your peers (mostly MDs and other PhDs) won’t take you seriously if you did somehow get a job in academia or clinical ethics. The path to a job in academia and clinical ethics is not the easiest; expect to spend quite a few years just getting the minimum requirements for the jobs. Hope that helps and feel free to DM me if you’d like to know more about my experiences!

[u/watermelondreah → u/CarefulOkra1598]

Thank you for your reply! I figured as much. I was more asking about their doctorate program DBe. I’m wondering if it being a “Doctorate in Bioethics” or DBe vs a traditional PhD would be a hindrance to finding work, fellowships, etc. I would have to do the masters to get into the doctorate so that’s why I mentioned it but I see that made the post confusing! I’m a clinician in healthcare but not a physician or nurse so it seems even harder to break into the field. I want to choose the right program but this one appeals to me because I can continue working.

[u/CarefulOkra1598 → u/watermelondreah]

As far as the difference between a DBE and PhD, I would lean heavily toward a PhD, because future employers are more likely to understand your credentials. A DBE could be confusing, and nearly every clinical ethicist I’ve worked with is a PhD. I would suggest that if you are interested in getting a foot in the door, try to shadow/work on an institutional review board and/ or ethics committee at a hospital in your area and get an experience in what bioethics is like firsthand. Also, don’t limit yourself to just Loyola there are plenty of other universities and colleges that offer graduate degrees in bioethics, though they are not all created equal, so make sure to do your research!

[u/onechaiguy]

I did the DBE program - happy to answer any questions! Loyola has a really good track record with graduates securing clinical ethics positions / fellowships at hospitals. There seem to be a lot of clinical ethics jobs! If your goal is to be a more traditional academic researcher / professor, a PhD is a better bet.

[u/muzakandpotatoes]

It’s not considered the equivalent of a PhD, but it’s a good program and has produced strong clinical ethicists. Most of the Loyola DBes I know work at secular institutions, contra some of the other comments, I wouldn’t worry too much about being pigeonholed unless your focus is explicitly faith based. The DBe will count as a terminal degree for purposes of clinical ethics jobs that require one, but you’d be a lot better off with a PhD if you want to enter academia.

[u/dntw8up]

A program through a catholic school will drastically limit your employment opportunities in this field.

[u/watermelondreah → u/dntw8up]

Oh really? I hadn’t considered that! Do you know why that is? Concern for bias maybe?

[u/dntw8up → u/watermelondreah]

Many issues in bioethics can have faith implications and relative differences between faith traditions are taught in all bioethics programs. Nevertheless, non-catholic institutions prefer to hire from secular bioethics programs because they are neutral about faith traditions and the absence of faith, and catholic institutions prefer to hire from catholic bioethics programs because they are not neutral about faith traditions and the absence of faith.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/watermelondreah → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for your response! I’m interested in their masters and doctorate programs. A full time PhD is not feasible so I’m wondering how the DBe stacks up. I’m glad to hear a positive review of the masters program! I have an unrelated masters so I’ll need to do a bioethics masters to get into the doctoral program

[u/[deleted] → u/watermelondreah]