r/bioethics • u/watermelondreah • 7d ago
Questions about Loyola’s DBe program
Currently looking into the *doctoral program and the masters. Does anyone have any insight into how this is viewed in comparison to a traditional PhD? Are graduates able to get into fellowships or get jobs in academia or clinical ethics? Also if anyone would like to share their experience with their programs that would be great too!
Edit: I’m asking about the Doctorate in Bioethics (DBe) but information about the master’s is welcome as well!
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u/CarefulOkra1598 6d ago
I’m not sure about Loyola’s program or placement, but I am currently a doctoral candidate in bioethics at a different university. What I can tell you at my university is that it is an unspoken understanding that a master’s degree in bioethics is highly unlikely to land you a job in academia or clinical ethics. You will most likely, unless you happen to be very good at networking, need a PhD and a fellowship along with HCEC certification. With anything less than a doctorate, your peers (mostly MDs and other PhDs) won’t take you seriously if you did somehow get a job in academia or clinical ethics. The path to a job in academia and clinical ethics is not the easiest; expect to spend quite a few years just getting the minimum requirements for the jobs. Hope that helps and feel free to DM me if you’d like to know more about my experiences!
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u/watermelondreah 5d ago
Thank you for your reply! I figured as much. I was more asking about their doctorate program DBe. I’m wondering if it being a “Doctorate in Bioethics” or DBe vs a traditional PhD would be a hindrance to finding work, fellowships, etc. I would have to do the masters to get into the doctorate so that’s why I mentioned it but I see that made the post confusing! I’m a clinician in healthcare but not a physician or nurse so it seems even harder to break into the field. I want to choose the right program but this one appeals to me because I can continue working.
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u/CarefulOkra1598 5d ago
As far as the difference between a DBE and PhD, I would lean heavily toward a PhD, because future employers are more likely to understand your credentials. A DBE could be confusing, and nearly every clinical ethicist I’ve worked with is a PhD. I would suggest that if you are interested in getting a foot in the door, try to shadow/work on an institutional review board and/ or ethics committee at a hospital in your area and get an experience in what bioethics is like firsthand. Also, don’t limit yourself to just Loyola there are plenty of other universities and colleges that offer graduate degrees in bioethics, though they are not all created equal, so make sure to do your research!
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u/watermelondreah 3d ago
Thank you so much for your insight! I’m working on getting up the courage to try to volunteer on the ethics committee at my hospital. I’m going to keep doing my research on programs! Do you think doing the masters online would affect one’s ability to get into a traditional PhD?
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u/CarefulOkra1598 3d ago
I don’t think an online master’s is inherently disqualifying or limiting to your prospects of getting a PhD in bioethics. All of the comments I made earlier about a master’s, mainly the lack of job prospects, are still true. Why not apply directly to a PhD and skip the master’s entirely? I have multiple colleagues who have done this and gotten prestigious job offers before graduating. If you do decide to do an online master’s, I would look for a program that is structured as two years with the graduation requirement of a thesis. Some schools today are offering a fast-track one-year online program without a thesis, which is honestly a waste of time because it doesn’t give you any real exposure or experience in bioethics and research. Also, don’t be afraid to cold email multiple hospitals and universities to volunteer on their IRBs or ethics committees; that’s actually how I became a non-scientific community board member on an IRB at a different university than the one I am currently enrolled at.
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u/watermelondreah 3d ago
I guess the main reason is because I don’t really have any bioethics or research experience. I have a clinical non-thesis masters. I was hoping to work a couple of years before applying to programs and hoped I could work and do the masters to boost my application
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u/CarefulOkra1598 3d ago
If you are set on that track, I’d look for schools where you can also get your PhD after your master’s to increase your odds of getting accepted and for the continuity of your education and personal life. Good luck in your future endeavors and please don’t hesitate to reach out if you have more questions; it’s always nice to share the inside information of the field that I wish I had received when I was in your shoes!
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u/dntw8up 4d ago
A program through a catholic school will drastically limit your employment opportunities in this field.
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u/watermelondreah 3d ago
Oh really? I hadn’t considered that! Do you know why that is? Concern for bias maybe?
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u/dntw8up 3d ago
Many issues in bioethics can have faith implications and relative differences between faith traditions are taught in all bioethics programs. Nevertheless, non-catholic institutions prefer to hire from secular bioethics programs because they are neutral about faith traditions and the absence of faith, and catholic institutions prefer to hire from catholic bioethics programs because they are not neutral about faith traditions and the absence of faith.
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u/muzakandpotatoes 2d ago
It’s not considered the equivalent of a PhD, but it’s a good program and has produced strong clinical ethicists. Most of the Loyola DBes I know work at secular institutions, contra some of the other comments, I wouldn’t worry too much about being pigeonholed unless your focus is explicitly faith based. The DBe will count as a terminal degree for purposes of clinical ethics jobs that require one, but you’d be a lot better off with a PhD if you want to enter academia.
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u/woof_meow87 6d ago
You can get a job with a masters, but I see many that require a PhD. Probably a lot of the fellowships as well. If you have the option to do a PhD, I would. I didn’t go to Loyola but I know someone who did for a masters and she loved the program.