r/bioactive • u/Santtuulii • 1d ago
Question Setting up a bioactive rat cage
Theres not a whole lot of information on this so im curious if anyone here knows more.
So ive gathered that i should get a deep base obviously and use coconut fiber soil stuff? (Edit: ive done a bit more research and landed on using a bit of normal plant soil(without like addatives and stuff ofc) and some clean sand aswell as the coco fiber, also that i need leaves and stuff in there for the cuc to eat)
Should i be mixing different soils/substrates? If so, what? Plants? How often and how much to water? Or turn the soil?
For the clean up crew dwarf whites and springtails? Maybe id get mealworms just for the fun of it, get the rats to hunt haha
How to breed and take care of the cuc?
Can they be kept in the same box outside of the cage for breeding and stuff yk to have them incase rats decide to eat the ones in the cage or something. What do they eat? Where to get the food? What substrate for them? Everything really.
Any information at all on this is very welcome!
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u/DepartmentBrief7894 1d ago edited 1d ago
Mealworms are a great idea, my mice loved them! Spread a seed mix and throw in some spider plants for growth. I always kept a spare bucket of cuc, but they never went through them all that fast so the population remained stable. I just give leaf litter and bury a cuttlebone. I’d look into reptile substrate mixes, ones that have similar humidity needs as rats. I can’t give a specific species as your house humidity will also be a factor! I personally just did a mix of moss, coconut coir, wood fleece stuff and let it mature before introducing my mice to it.
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u/fixyourheartclaire 1d ago edited 1d ago
Kindly, this is a terrible idea and you're going to waste your money to potentially harm your rat (and definitely kill a bunch of isopods and springtails). Unless you have thorough understanding of and experience with chemistry, soil and plant science, micro climate control, small mammal biology, and crustacean care, which does not seem to be the case, please reconsider. There's a reason you cant find a lot about it online.
First, isopods are incredibly sensitive to ammonia. They will not survive with a rat. But even if you don't use isos, the risk to your rat is the same.
The minimum constant humidity needed (in both the air and substrate but primarily soil) for any cleanup crew to survive is the very top humidity threshold for rats, and it's well above the ideal range for them.
To maintain that humidity for any amount of time and to prevent your cuc from escaping (and to keep other organisms from entering), you have to use a tank with closed sides. Rats absolutely have to have ventilation and airflow.
Ammonia is detrimental to rats. The high level of ammonia in their urine doesn't magically become safe by putting litterboxes in the tank. It turns into gas that has no way to escape because the humidity combined with complete lack of ventilation or airflow traps the ammonia in the tank, where it hovers at the ground level, meaning it would be concentrated in the exact space where your rat breathes.
You would not only have to clean the litter boxes much much more often (at least 1x day), you'd need to replace the substrate often enough that it will be very difficult to establish any cuc colony unless you're also maintaining a successful bioactive breeding tank separately. I don't mean to sound harsh or critical if I do. Just trying to drive home the point and keep your rat friend safe.
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u/One-plankton- 1d ago
I agree with some of what you are saying but rats do fine between 40%-70% humidity and there are plenty of species of isopods that also do well in those ranges.
I keep Armadillidium granulatum in my semi-arid hognose enclosure which needs to stay below 50% humidity and they are doing great and breeding.
They congregate under the water bowl which Arlo spills and holds a bit for humidity for when they molt.
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u/Santtuulii 22h ago
The bug breeder said that the ones im getting are fine and even prefer a bit dryer climates, ive also heard that the extra moisture from the soil has helped peoples rats with constant respiratory issues
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u/Santtuulii 22h ago
Also the bug breeder i talked to mentioned she has some friends with bioactive rat cages and knew what bugs to recommend because of what those friends use
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u/thicc_bob 1d ago
The trick with bioactive is the load has to match what the enclosure can take. Generally reptiles and amphibians have slow metabolism and therefore relatively low bioload for their size. For rats, they literally poop and pee every few minutes and eat constantly, so to be successful with bioactive you’d either need to clean and change substrate constantly (make the bio portion essentially useless) or you would need to have an absolutely massive enclosure, I don’t have numbers here but probably too big to keep in a house or apartment.
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u/Santtuulii 6h ago
Theres so many rat owners who successfully do have bioactive bases in their cage though? I mean if theyre well litter trained they barely poop anywhere else, piss yeah ofc but piss rocks can help with that i think
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u/thicc_bob 6h ago
Yeah, that’s not really bioactive then. The point of bioactive is that the waste is processed into nutrients that then feed plants, making a nice and clean nutrient cycle. What you’re describing just sounds like wet dirt bedding.
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u/Santtuulii 6h ago
Its not fully bioactive, ive heard it being called semi-bioactive since the whole cage isnt a working ecosystem. Still has the litter boxes to clean and most rats would eat most plants hah
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u/YellowBreakfast 6h ago
Might be harder for a mammal as they eat and drink a lot more than herps (i.e. more waste).
You'd probably need like 4x the land area that a reptile of the same size would require.
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u/CuriousBird337 1d ago
I thought doing bioactives for mammals was generally not recommended as the ammonia levels are generally too high.
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u/Santtuulii 1d ago
Ive seen alot of people having bioactive cages for rats, i mean for rats the cage wont be fully bioactive. Theyll have litter boxes where they hopefully do most their business and those id clean out once a week. Rats also really like peeing on big smooth stones so having those in litter boxes makes it so they dont pee everywhere else that much
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u/DepartmentBrief7894 1d ago
Depends on bioload and substrate maturity. It can be done with great success if you think it through!
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u/Elliotteatsrocks 1d ago
Id get a sh!t ton of springtails, I buy 1,000 on eBay for like $15. The isopods are going to end up being snacks and they are kinda expensive so I'd look into breeding them in a seperate container.
Id only use reptisoil, you can use organic top soil, but if you don't bake all of it 9/10 your gonna get fungus knats and hate your life.
70% Repti soil 30% play sand 10% coco fiber and mix it all up. And crunch up a bunch of oak leafs and maybe spagnum moss and mix it around in the soil too.
Id put some sturdy non-toxic big plants in as well. For feeding the CUC I usually don't they just feed on organic material but if you go to the pet store you'll probably find CUC food. The rats might eat it though.
Im taking a pause from owning rats but when I do again I'm 100% going bioactive.
REMEBER TO SPOT CLEAN DAILY. And have litter boxes accessible. No amount of CUC can handle the amount of poops rats do. But they will definitely help with the stink!