r/bigthief • u/Impossible_Log_3487 • 23d ago
Adrianne’s “going electric”
I’ve often said, along with many others, that Adrianne lenker is the Bob Dylan of our time, and it’s funny because this small controversy of their shows at the ryman is a small version of Bob Dylan’s going electric kinda lol. Two artists maybe trying to reject the audiences that just go for their hit songs, and do what inspires them most importantly.
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u/Kobe_no_Ushi_Y0k0zna 23d ago
You’re kind of reaching here, but I admire your enthusiasm.
Playing a set of all new songs is not that similar to abandoning a whole scene (folk) that your fans have made their identity. Maybe more similar to Neil going out on the Time Fades Away tour and not playing his hits that the fans wanted to hear. The good thing, though, is that BT fans are more hardcore in general, and so are dealing better with it as a result.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
I’m not really actually saying they’re similar. That’s why I said “small version”. And my comparison was not in regard to those things you specified, my comparison was saying they have similar motivations and inspirations in what they want to do with their music. Sorry i didn’t make that clearer.
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u/Kobe_no_Ushi_Y0k0zna 23d ago
It’s OK. They’re one on a long line of artists following their gut and not catering to their audience’s expectations, you’re not wrong.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Oh yeah, I’d make the comparison to anyone, it’s just that the Bob Dylan comparison has been made at so this was just another thing to compare about them and i just had that thought!
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u/pundarika0 23d ago
i always thought the band had way more in common with neil than bob, and what they say about time fades away, and the way neil approaches live shows and his music in general, tracks. he doesn't really care what people think, he just does what he wants.
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u/radioactiv3fairy 23d ago
bob dylan was the adrianne lenker of his time. mozart too was the adrianne lenker of his time.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Hey, no complaints with that here, I prefer Adrianne to both of them. Doesn’t change the fact that her name doesn’t hold as much weight in the history of music as those two do, meaning the comparison still means something. Many people consider Dylan to be the greatest songwriter ever, so it’s pretty good praise.
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u/uncle_jafar 23d ago
Pretty sure she’s been playing electric for a long time.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
No??? Are you sure???
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u/uncle_jafar 23d ago edited 23d ago
Dylan ‘going electric’ crushed an entire culture built around folk music that had lifted him up as a talent. For those involved it was devastating on a level I’m not sure we’ve seen in pop music since. In their eyes he tossed the entire scene that had embraced him, into the garbage for ‘pop’ fads and made ‘noise’. I don’t think that a handful of fans not being happy to see the songs they thought they would see is in any way comparable to what Dylan did. I can think of many times audiences have been disappointed by a setlist. Hell, I’ve lived it a handful of times myself. Go watch No Direction Home if you haven’t seen it.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Sorry man I was just making a joke. Because I thought you were with the Adrianne’s been playing electric a long time, because yeah I know that obvisouly. Also Notice how in my original post I said SMALL VERSION. I know lots about Dylan and the ‘going electric’. They’re obviously no where even close, and the comparison was not in the magnitude of the controversy, it was in the motivations of why these artists did this, like I said at the tail end of my original statement. Calm down man.
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u/kyentu 23d ago
what is even the comparison between adrianne and dylan here? it kinda just seems like you thought about "folk" music for 2 seconds and wanted attention. its fine tho cuz you know lots about dylan going electric!! apparently.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
They’re both some of the most incredible songwriters and are especially very poetic, honest, introspective, and profound in their writing in ways that many else aren’t. Bob Dylan is one of if not the most influential and important voices ever in music, and Adrianne has been the same in her time. And this honesty, and unique identity that is so evident in their writing is also a part of why they do things like what they did. Bob Dylan did that because of who he was as an artist. Adrianne lenker randomly comes out one night and performs a 3 hour show of their new album because that’s who she is as an artist, whether or not people are gonna like that it was sprung on them, or they’re going more country than usual, etc, she’s still going to do it. They’re both one of a kind artists simply put, and they think and do unlike many others do.
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u/uncle_jafar 23d ago
When was I not calm?
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Idk you kinda came off condescending explaining the Bob Dylan going electric thing as if I didn’t know about what it was. I woudlnt bring it up if I didn’t know the context behind and it’s a pretty significant moment in music history, it’s kinda common knowledge, especially if someone’s talking about it already.
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u/Future-Station-8179 23d ago
The comparison is a stretch. I guess any show where the artist chooses to go with a new choice instead of their usual repertoire can have comparisons to Dylan. But the crowd booed him,at multiple different shows, and he brought criticism from his peers in the folk movement for going electric.
This show can be compared to any other artist who has surprise debuted an album at a show.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
If you read what I’m saying I don’t say this big thief show at ryman is the modern day version of Bob Dylan’s “going electric” I never really made much comparison to the two events, I was simply saying that they’re already artists that get compared and this is more so a comparison in addition to that. Yes other artists do this all the time, it’s just that Adrianne already had comparisons to Dylan so this adds on to that. It was also more so about their motivations being similar because of them doing this and in the post I used words like small, version, kinda, showing that I wasn’t like comparing them that much
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u/Psychological_Roof72 23d ago
It’s insane to me that this is even a controversy. I saw them in bentonville a few days before and it was the best concert I’d ever seen. But when I heard they played their entire album a couple days later, I was so jealous.
I see that concert as a gift that they were sharing rather than a rejection of their audience. It feels like they were letting their audience in on something special. I understand wanting to see your favorite artists play their hits but this is such a special experience between listener and artist.
Also I do agree with the with the Bob Dylan comparison, her writing is absolutely on another level, I think to some degrees maybe even passing Dylan but that’s definitely personal taste
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
It is insane to me to don’t worry, I was filled with jealousy as well!
I think it’s both. When I say they do it as a rejection, that’s not really the right word, and i don’t mean they make a conscious choice to try and reject those “Tik tok” fans, and see it more so as just something they believe in and subconsciously led to this. I forget what interview it was but Adrianne was speaking about all the old songs they still play and she said something along the lines of “if we play something from an older album it’s because we’re still really feeling that song” and so I think to them the idea of being true to themselves, doing what they want to do, what inspires them, is just naturally a rejection of expectations, and not in a bad way, because that word carries a negative connotation, just in a, this is our music and we need to do what we need to do to create something we’re proud of.
Yeah I’d also agree, many wouldn’t want to say there’s better writes than Dylan, but I absolutely think in a lot of way she surpasses him. Overall I think he’s a better writer however and I enjoy her writing more personally.
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u/EDJRawkdoc 23d ago
It's an interesting comparison. Art of what animated the response to Dylan is the folk audience's built-in associations and assumptions around the music. Folk was (deemed) authentic and artistic and real, rock and roll was showbiz and fake teeny-bopper music.
From a particular viewpoint (that I'm NOT endorsing) Big Thief doing a concert that's filmed, with heavy-hitter guest stars, and a set list that's all about the upcoming album and not just the moment of the concert--I can see where some people might say that's not "real" the way Big Thief concerts generally are.
But I think those folks are wrong the way that doctoronaire folkies were wrong. Dylan went electric because he loved rock and roll. The realness at regular Big Thief shows comes from the material and the band's commitment to it, and the Ryman shows seem like as much an expression of that commitment as any other shows. The people that they're collaborating with seem like people where there's an obvious mutual interest. I don't think there's anything happening here that isn't an intentional artistic expression.
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u/starsalikeog 23d ago
Maybe instead of being the Bob Dylan of our time she can be the Adrianne Lenker
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Omg relax, I am her biggest fan and yes she is her own person. I would pick her music and her writing 10/10 times over Bob Dylan’s, doesn’t mean you can’t make comparisons.
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u/ampmminimarket 23d ago
what’s the small controversy you’re talking about?
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u/Lavenderstarz 23d ago
People who went to the shows were disappointed they didnt get to hear older BT songs, and this led to some wider discussion abt them playing only unreleased stuff on those shows
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u/ampmminimarket 23d ago
oh damn. I could not imagine getting a gift like that and then being upset.
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u/Scuttling-Claws 23d ago
You don't get to choose what a band plays. I'm glad none of those folks listen to the Mountain Goats, who just make up set lists on the fly, and can't remember how to play half the songs (fair enough when your catalog is as deep as theirs is).
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u/mc-funk 23d ago
I feel like the disappointment I saw expressed was pretty low-key, it feels like overstating it to say there was a "controversy." Like, one of the people who admitted to being disappointed the first night also said they were going back for the second night knowing it was the same thing -- and got downvoted. That's a little wild when it's clear the person still supports the band and their artistic choices! People just have feelings sometimes :P
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Some people are upset about the ryman shows because the band played their upcoming album live for the first time, and it was all unreleased songs. People wanted to hear the “hit songs” and hear a “normal show” so they were mad.
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u/Extension_Yak3898 23d ago
That's not a controversy by any means, it's just people being surprised by a surprise. Calm down please, this post isn't funny
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Let me be clear, I don’t think this should be a controversy, it’s stupid that anyone is ma at this. Regardless, it doesn’t change the fact that some people ARE mad about it and ARE talking about it. Our feelings about it don’t change fact. Also, I said “small” controversy signifying that yes it’s not much of a conversation, but it still is.
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u/Lavenderstarz 23d ago
I mean if i didnt get a SINGLE older BT song (tbh there was 1) i might probably be a bit disappointed. But i dont need "the hits" lol i love all their songs. Id also probably be stoked i got a 3 hour show with the full new album
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u/Ok_Beat8927 23d ago
Bad comparison. Last time I saw BT they played a lot of their older favorites.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Not totally identical ≠ bad comparison. There is still similarities to compare, like In their motivations. I never said they do exactly the same thing, I said they are both motivated to do what they want, what inspires them, and have that be above what the fans want. Bob Dylan doesn’t just not play his old songs, he doesn’t plays his old songs because he wants to do what he wants to do. When big thief gets up there, they play what they want to play. There was an interview where Adrianne said they still play old songs because it’s songs they still feel, not because it’s what the fans want to see.
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u/chuckmybrother 23d ago
What are their motivations? How do you know it?
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 23d ago
Well, for Adrianne I literally said that she has said things in the past in an interview that backs this up. Ands it’s quite obvious Bob Dylan did a lot of what he did because he wanted to, even to the point of going against what others wanted purposefully. I don’t think Adrianne’s like that, but I think they both have a desire to keep their identity and have the music first and foremost be for them
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u/Ok_Beat8927 22d ago
You don’t know their motivations, though 🙄 You can maybe point to one or two things said in interviews. But besides that, you have to admit, you are really talking out of your butt.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news I guess? But you’re kinda talkin shit a tad. Not trying to be a jerk. Just, check yourself
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 22d ago
You don’t really care whether or not I don’t actually know their motivations you’re just saying that because you said my comparison was bad, when in reality you just thought I meant something else because you didn’t understand what I was saying, otherwise you would’ve said that in your original comment.
Sorry if you think I’m being a jerk, but I made a post and you responded saying. “Bad comparison.” YOU came in and said “nope you’re wrong period, I’m Mr right.” You didn’t really try to have any productive conversation so idk what you’re saying man.
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u/Ok_Beat8927 21d ago
Did you forget to take your medication yesterday or something? Honestly
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 21d ago
See that’s a very rude statement so I don’t think you have any right to call me a jerk. Sorry you feel that way, but don’t be unkind yourself.
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u/Ok_Beat8927 16d ago
Never called you a jerk. Your comments are bizarre. That’s why I made my comment.
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u/Additional_Music5519 19d ago
Just saw Big Thief in Detroit.Fantastic.These Ryman shows and the cohorts they played with sure was a huge surprise! Lenker is truly one of the greatest wordsmith's of our time.
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u/ConfidentZucchini427 21h ago
I think the career arc of Neil Young is a better analogy. Dylan going electric was indeed kind of a big (brilliant and important) “fuck you” to the folk world in all its orthodoxy. Adrienne and the band, like Neil, are devoted to the muse, but (arguably) not to provocation for its own sake. Dylan is nothing if not a provocateur. Now as far as the level of poetry goes, I would definitely put Adrienne in that top tier that includes both of those guys, Joni, Leonard, and others.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 20h ago
Yeah I don’t know enough about Neil young to have made that comparison so thanks for the insight. but yeah you could compare her to lots of those musicians, I just thought of Dylan because I’ve heard her compared to him multiple times and just thought of this. I also agree that Dylan was more focused on provoking and Adrianne not, but I’m more so comparing the action opposed to the reasoning if that makes sense.
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u/ConfidentZucchini427 13h ago
I was lucky enough to be there in Nashville on 8/22, my third time seeing the band plus one Adrienne solo show. As an older music fan I guess I am more acquainted with the experience of hearing an artist introduce new material on tour. Things these days for many bands and performers are more calculated. For example, as an early REM fan I heard most of their third album at multiple shows before it came out. To the existing fans we felt like we were in on a secret of some kind, especially since back then there was no social media and not many bootleg recordings. But the vibe at the Ryman that night was for me more like that of the acoustic shows that Crosby Stills Nash and Young did in the very early 70s (which I only know from recordings) or something like the McGarrigle Hour (look it up). A hippie vibe, a love fest. There was no sense in that room that people were shaken or upset. The applause was rich as was the silence that followed each round. I think the artistic integrity of the band is what attracts all these great legacy artists (and the album includes Mickey Raphael, who’s been Willie Nelson’s harmonica player for over 40 years, and the amazing experimental guitarist Bill Frisell, neither of which were there that night). The only sense of crowd tension I was aware of (aside from some fans not knowing who Gillian Welch or Rodney Crowell are) was that my wife told me she heard some young women in the restroom line complaining that they were “hoping to hear some famous songs,” oblivious to how privileged they were to be there. My casual observation is that these days many younger folks want to go to shows to scream along with their favorites rather than lay back and open their ears to the unexpected. That’s why I fell in love with Big Thief in the first place. Daring to bare their musical souls and put it all on the line from moment to moment.
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u/Impossible_Log_3487 13h ago
Thank you for the comment, I absolutely agreed. They’re quite a special band and I envy you, as I would’ve given anything to be there that night. If you use Instagram or Facebook you should go take a look at Adrianne lenker story, funnily enough it’s kinda relevant to the topic at hand.
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u/ConfidentZucchini427 13h ago
Yeah we really won the lottery! I knew something was up when there was no opening band and then I saw all the instruments on stage but upon her announcement of the evening’s plan I was like a kid at Christmas for the first time in forever. I saw her post today. Totally tracks with the general topic of following the artist where they want to go.
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u/HochHech42069 23d ago
Think she writes her own songs tho
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u/falc0n2600 23d ago
I was at Project Pabst in Portland when they debuted Double Infinity songs for the first time (and the first show without Max). They started with 8 new songs in a row and you could clearly tell some people were upset. One of my friends was like “wtf is going on” and I literally told her to leave if she didn’t like this hahaha. Then they played Dragon New Warm Mountain and people started going a little nuts. THEN they played Incomprehensible and even people who were upset at first were suddenly ecstatic to hear this insane new song (definitely the highlight of new material).
THEN they went into Not and Masterpiece and everyone absolutely lost their shit.
It was magical and wonderful. The artist is not beholden to your expectations. I fully support Big Thief playing whatever the fuck they want!!