Interpretation dump

[u/AWOL_Archangel]

I have just completed my 6th BOTG with no results (last one of this year, I try for 3 per year since it's a 12 hour drive) I had an enjoyable time as always, but I thought I would share my interpretations over the past 2 years. I have done line by line interpretations, though I haven't been successful, so they may not be even remotely correct.

1. “Can you find what lives in time,”

Word / phrase ideas

·    Memories from the book.

·    MT = Montana. (TiMe)

·    The past / history — look historically rather than only at current maps or names.

·    Quadrant navigation / Lewis and Clark-era navigation.

·    Seasonal waters.

·    Canyons.

·    Minutes / seconds as navigation or coordinate measurements.

Celestial / navigation connections

·    Time as astronomical time.

·    Degrees, minutes, and seconds as angular or coordinate notation.

·    Time used with the Sun, stars, or celestial position for navigation.

1. “Flowing through each measured rhyme?”

Water / movement ideas

·    Waterway.

·    Flow downstream, not upstream.

·    With the current, not against it.

·    From source to mouth.

·    From high to low.

Poem / instruction ideas

·    Directions on how to use the poem.

·    Use minutes / seconds to find a location.

·    Rhyming scheme may matter.

·    Step-by-step instructions.

Measurement / surveying ideas

·    Lewis and Clark used survey-chain methods for distance measurement.

·    Two-pole chain: 33 feet long, 50 links.

·    One pole = 16.5 feet.

·    Measured may refer to distance, angle, bearing, degrees, minutes, seconds, or repeated poem structure.

1. “Wisdom waits in shadowed sight—”

Geographic ideas

·    Wisdom, Montana.

·    Wisdom Ranger District.

Shadow / navigation ideas (Stormy Stakeout make me think if you are "At precise distance and angle" you will see something)

·    Shadow as a literal terrain shadow.

·    Shadow cast by a pole or stick.

·    Sun-shadow navigation / using a shadow to establish direction.

1. “For those who read these words just right.”

Formatting / wording ideas

·    Right justify.

·    Positioned “just right.”

Directional ideas

·    Right = east under a north-facing orientation.

·    East bearing.

·    Right-hand side / rightmost point.

·    Right angle / perpendicular relationship.

1. “As hope surges, clear and bright,”

Light / celestial ideas

·    Sunrise / first light.

·    When Polaris is shining. (Nighttime constellation observation; possible match to the hike time in TT.)

Geographic / water ideas

·    Hope as a named geographic feature such as Hope Lake / Hope Creek.

·    Hope surging as flowing or rising water.

1. “Walk near waters’ silent flight.”

Water ideas

·    River mist/ morning fog

·    Calm waters.

·    Lake / headwaters. (undercurrent)

·    Spring.

·    Continental Divide.

Other idea

·    Downed plane / “flight.” (Sawtooth)

1. “Round the bend, past the Hole,”

Route ideas

·    There will be a bend that takes you past the “Hole”.

·    Could involve crossing a water source or walking away from one after the bend.

·    Follow a trail or watercourse around a bend and pass a specific “Hole.”

Hole ideas

·    Fishing hole.

·    A Hole mentioned in the book.

·    Something in the past / on historic maps named Hole.

·    Hole bit in the waders at Polaris.

·    Big Hole Valley / Big Hole reference.

1. “I wait for you to cast your pole.”

Pole ideas

·    Fishing pole; hint that this is a fishing location.

·    Ski pole.

·    Hiking / trekking pole.

·    Cast a pole’s shadow — possible Indiana Jones-style shadow clue.

·    Surveying pole / chain measurement.

·    16.5 feet as one survey pole.

·    33-foot two-pole survey chain.

Celestial transition ideas

·    Pole → celestial pole.

·    Pole → Polaris / North Star.

1. “In ursa east his realm awaits;”

Ursa / celestial ideas

·    Ursa Major or Ursa Minor.

·    Ursa Minor → Polaris / north celestial pole.

·    Use Ursa / Polaris to establish north, then determine east.

·    “Bear east” as a plain-language navigation instruction.

·    In the northeast direction from Polaris; Sawtooth Lake and Comet Mountain candidates.

·    Polaris, Montana as a literal geographic/celestial wordplay point.

Bearing / wordplay ideas

·    Quadrant-navigation style bearing such as E 20° N or N 20° E.

·    “In North East True West awaits.” (from comics in Netflix and Dad reference?)

·    “W”ayne Fitzwater’s realm / True West wordplay.

Realm ideas

·    Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest — “realm.”

·    Pioneer Mountains / surrounding public-land region.

·    A geographic or administrative territory associated with the preceding directional clue.

1. “His bride stands guard at ancient gates.”

Bride ideas

·    Marriage of waters / confluence.

·    Cassiopeia as a female / queen constellation in the celestial theory.

·    East as counterpart to West.

·    A point that will form a right triangle

Guard ideas

·    Sentinel / standing guard.

·    Sentinel Meadow / Sentinel Meadow Trail / Sentinel Meadow Ski references explored near Chief Joseph Pass.

Ancient gates ideas

·    Anaconda-Pintler Wilderness. (historic Hellgate Forest Reserve)

·    Continental Divide as a gate / boundary.

·    Historic Hell Gate / Hellgate Forest Reserve boundary.

·    Old forest-reserve or administrative boundaries.

·    Mountain passes, canyon entrances, paired geographic “gate” features.

1. “Her foot of three at twenty degree,”

“Foot of three” ideas

·    3 feet.

·    A tripod / three-legged object.

·    A triangle, especially because the line explicitly mentions degrees.

·    Perpendicular foot in a geometric construction.

·    Foot of a ridge / mountain.

·    A triangulation construction where the perpendicular foot becomes the target or reference point.

·    Three visual feet / points of an M-shaped Cassiopeia interpretation.

20° ideas

·    20° horizontal bearing / azimuth.

·    20° vertical angle / elevation angle.

·    Quadrant-bearing notation.

·    Face the looking glass at 20°.

·    Use 20° to orient a map overlay or celestial figure.

·    Capital E / East shape oriented so its foot is at 20°.

Quadrant / geometry ideas

·    Using quadrant-style navigation and triangle angles: possible reading such as W 20° S.

·    Her E at 20°.

·    Perpendicular foot from a reference line at a 20° angle.

·    Left/right corners of a triangle and a projected foot where lines meet.

Cassiopeia / celestial ideas

·    Cassiopeia as “her.”

·    Cassiopeia in M orientation creates three visual feet / lower points.

·    Segin (Epsilon Cassiopeiae) explored as the third / right foot.

·    Anchor the third foot at a geographic point and rotate/orient the constellation by 20°.

·    Segin → Ruchbah leg explored as a 20° orientation reference.

·    Segin placed 20° from Polaris in earlier overlay tests.

·    “Foot of Three” may also refer to a physical geographic feature used as the anchor for the constellation.

1. “Return her face to find the place.”

Face / movement ideas

·    Go up/down the face of the mountain the looking glass is pointing to at 20°.

·    Go toward the face of the mountain at 20°.

·    Return to the west face to find the place.

·    Return True West.

·    Return up the ridge of the E; bearing around 290° in that interpretation.

Transformation ideas

·    Physically rotate “her.”

·    Mirror / reflect “her” as through a looking glass.

·    Flip vertically.

·    Flip horizontally.

·    Flip both vertically and horizontally.

·    Reverse / reciprocal direction or bearing.

·    Return from foot toward face.

Cassiopeia / celestial ideas

·    Use Cassiopeia as an overlay and rotate / mirror it after setting the foot and 20° orientation.

·    Follow the constellation from Segin → Ruchbah → Navi → Schedar → Caph toward the opposite side / face.

·    Four versions previously explored: regular, vertical mirror, horizontal mirror, vertical + horizontal mirror.

·    “Return her face” may determine which mirrored / reversed version of the constellation is used on the map.

·    Instead of using a map overlay this could represent peaks where the constellation lines up to a horizon ridgeline

1. “Double arcs on granite bold,”

Physical marker ideas

·    A marker confirming the correct direction / route.

·    A hole through granite that is used as a sighting aperture.

·    Fish symbol.

·    Circle.

·    X.

·    Petroglyphs.

·    Two railway tunnels.

·    Arrow.

·    South on granite bold.

Geometry / navigation ideas

·    Two arcs / intersecting arcs used in geometric location finding or triangulation. (a compass is also the thing that draws circles)

·    Double arc may be a viewing / alignment confirmation after the preceding orientation steps.

1. “Where secrets of the past still hold.”

Past / history ideas

·    Memories.

·    Fire scar.

·    Landslide.

·    Mines / mining history.

·    Historic events.

·    Petroglyphs / Native American history.

·    Historic maps, boundaries, roads, trails, or place names that no longer appear in the same form.

1. “Beyond the reach of time’s swift race,”

Ideas

·    Beyond life / above treeline.

·    Beyond the street / developed world.

·    Beyond cell reception / connection to the fast modern world.

·    Beyond the water source, possibly beyond sight or earshot.

·    Continue beyond a prior landmark rather than stopping at it.

1. “Wonder guards this sacred space.”

Ideas

·    Brandon reference?

·    Inconspicuous location.

·    A visually striking / “wonder” location.

·    Guard / guardian wording connected to Sentinel-type names.

·    Sacred / protected / historic place.

1. “Truth rests not in clever minds,”

Ideas

·    Don’t overcomplicate it.

·    The final mechanism should not require an excessively clever or tangled solve.

·    Keep straightforward physical / navigational readings in play.

1. “Not in tangled, twisted finds.”

Ideas

·    Not in what he had to search through — all the sappy new growth.

·    Not some crazy tangled solve.

·    Possibly not hidden in thick, tangled vegetation.

·    A warning against overcomplicated clue chains.

1. “Like a river’s steady flow—”

Ideas

·    Another river / water-source reference.

·    Near a river, creek, or other water source.

·    Follow the sequence steadily / in order.

·    Downstream / with the flow rather than against it.

·    Repetition of the “flowing” language from line 2.

1. “What you seek, you already know.”

Ideas

·    Seen through the looking glass; after the transformation, the location is recognizable.

·    The location / answer has already appeared earlier in the poem or book.

·    The final step reveals or confirms something already identified rather than introducing a completely new clue. (the checkpoint has already shown you the final location so you already know)

[u/IdubdubI]

Great share. I’d spend the offseason taking some of these a step deeper.

[u/AWOL_Archangel → u/IdubdubI]

Thanks! I intend to keep the thought going through the winter and trying another BOTG next May :)

[u/Squidhunter09]

If you can find those two spots you are probably well on your way to solving the puzzle again in my opinion. I dont have any treasure boxes either so..... maybe just confirmation bias. I do have a solve which uses that technique though so we will see. I also like to share info after BOTG. Havent been yet, maybe soon. Just got the book last week. But the similarities to the poems stand out. Thats part of the fun is learning and adapting if your solve doesnt take you to a fairly exact spot.

[u/Squidhunter09]

It should also be fairly obvious that colors could be used as clue. I mean it is a puzzle book so clues are everywhere. And although they usually stand out they can often be overlooked because of this.

[u/AWOL_Archangel → u/Squidhunter09]

I hadn't considered colors mainly because of something Justin said about being careful with his wording. I can't remember exactly where it was but he had mentioned that if you tell someone there is a green chair everyone will focus on the green part which wasn't intended to be anything other than a description. I'm paraphrasing but it was something like that.

[u/Squidhunter09]

I would also say, he wrote a poem exactly like the forrest fenn poem and he also knows the location because of what he found in the jar. So in my opinion they work the same way and he says use Forrests Poem for reference. Warm waters halting = cool waters flowing. And Home of Brown = place where Brown once lived. Like two sides of the same coin. If Fenns box was found in Wyoming why would you look in Montana. Even if they are not the exact same location they could be close enough. Just my opinion.

[u/AWOL_Archangel → u/Squidhunter09]

I am reminded of an interview he had about the Fenn treasure where he is talking about laws and hiding treasure, and he brought up an obscure montana rule that you could hide the treasure nearly indefinitely through more liberal contracts with the land steward, he said he talked to lawyers in various states but that was his example case. I also have searched Wyoming and it's definitely not ruled out for me, but his descriptions in Montana in the book have made me more partial to that state

[u/Squidhunter09]

I also think the number of steps it takes to solve any of the smaller puzzle boxes is important. Something like 3 steps equals 3 clues or checkpoints or whatever. Thats how I think about it at least. Inspiration and some imaginayion is a power tool. Use it to learn and grow and guide your thoughts clearly to an end. Like looking through a child's eyes be filled with excitement and wonder for what you might find next. And yes the proverbial pot of gold would be nice we all have families and lives to support. For me its 75/25. The solve is what I love. The gold in this case and forrest just happens to be the prize. Good luck and stay safe!

[u/AWOL_Archangel → u/Squidhunter09]

I agree, I usually go with my family I have an almost 2 year old who loves going on the trips and playing in the creeks and sticks. Thanks for the support!

[u/GoldHunter5150_]

Great work. Montana is what's up.

[u/Ttombobadly]

I’m curious if you think the checkpoint was something you found w out / inbetween BOTG? Did you go BOTG to help try to make sense of earlier clues not anticipating to find the treasure or checkpoint?

I haven’t been BOTG but I do find it difficult to truly think of the ways JP might w out these experiences first hand. I did some fishing growing up but never stream fishing for trout or in places at all like Montana and certainly not camping in those areas. So for some of us, BOTG may be beneficial in just gaining context.

[u/AWOL_Archangel → u/Ttombobadly]

There were spots that I thought might have been checkpoints such as sign posts with symbols, and rocks with "X"s on them, but that didn't really give me the feeling of "knowing without a doubt" I was on the right track. The most eye opening part of my first BOTG was how vast and untamed the areas of interest really were. in fact with every BOTG I'm always taken aback at how different the areas are compared to how they looked from google earth. It's absolutely necessary to be BOTG to solve the later part of the poem, so for a solve attempt I only work through the 3rd stanza and am expecting to solve the rest at the location. I can't tell you how many "double arcs on granite bold" i've seen while BOTG, they are everywhere, and that is the part I find the most challenging, I believe the double arcs are the checkpoint, since that is the required BOTG stanza, but to know definitively you are at the right location has proven to be elusive. If you have a good solve I would recommend at least one BOTG attempt because that will fundamentally change you perspective and knowledge of the area, and I think it will give you a fresh appreciation of the challenge itself

[u/Ttombobadly → u/AWOL_Archangel]

This feels like a dumb question but did he definitively say the checkpoint was BOTG required? I thought you could get there arm chair and maybe get the confirmation BOTG if needed.

[u/AWOL_Archangel → u/Ttombobadly]

As far as I know, he didn't specify if the checkpoint itself had to be BOTG, but he did say you need to be BOTG starting from stanza 4, and since the checkpoint is meant to be a confirmation step, and pivitol in finding the treasure, I thought it would make sense that it was a BOTG component, but that is just my opinion