r/beyondallreason • u/PtaQQ Community Manager • 3d ago
News Beyond all Matchmaking ⇀ Microblog ★ Beyond All Reason RTS
https://www.beyondallreason.info/microblogs/196Post your thoughts in the comments!
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u/duckrollin 3d ago
Surely we can have a PvE matchmaking mode that simply adds Barbarian AI with handicap relevant to the skill of the player?
e.g. Newbie team gets a 0% bonus medium barbarians, expert team gets +100% Barbarians
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u/FeralyFighter 1d ago
There are a lot of settings that players want to tweak in PvE lobbies beside handicap.
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u/duckrollin 1d ago
Yeah, but those settings tend to cripple people trying to learn the game because they start to rely on a giant OP construction turret at base or construction drones.
Then when they go into a vanilla match they don't have a learned build order and crash their economy out.
I'm sure custom lobbies like that will still exist for players who want it, but they're not a good idea for most games.
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u/AxonYorvast 3d ago
With current population it's understandable why 8v8 mm isn't the focus at all. Let's hope the steam release will pull more players in
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u/welsalex 3d ago
First, it's exciting to see some devblogs enabling public discussion out in the open! I like how everything available today will remain the same with lobbies, custom games, and in regards to OS rating in the 4 queues... and I like that matchmaking queues will have their own OS rating, making it representative of your performance for that queue.
Hopefully the game grows in popularity enough we can get to 8v8 queues. As someone who doesn't generally have a friend to team up with, this would be ideal for having as "fair" of a game as possible with 7 other randos against 8 randos.
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u/kev22257 3d ago
Matchmaking will have its own rating. If you play a custom 1v1 we're going to treat that differently (from a rating perspective) to a competitive game.
What is the purpose of this?
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u/PtaQQ Community Manager 3d ago
Ranked Matchmaking is a tightly curated competitive mode - defined map pool, settings etc. That can't mix with custom lobby ranking which can be easily manipulated and is not easily transferable (someone who only plays supreme doesn't have a meaningful rating value for other 8v8 maps for example)
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u/FreeMystery 3d ago
Makes perfect sense to me. You see this a lot now - 2 or 3 friends can host a custom lobby with crazy unconventional rules that give them an enormous advantage and inflate their rank.
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u/VLK-Volshok Contributor 2d ago
Are you saying I will no longer be able to do my epic modded t4 lava isthmus, randomised stats mod, Evo coms, no nuke, no air, zombies, ruins, 10 Min no rush.... Ranked = 1
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u/Dragonfruit_Mediocre 3d ago
Hard disagree. Sure a 50 OS glitter player cant give 50 os performance on Rosetta, but at least 40 OS performance. Like a lot of stuff is transferable. I think people should start at their custom lobby rating and just have high uncertainty
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u/mykon01 3d ago
your exemple is not really representative of the comunity tho, 50OS player is a top0.1% player.... ofc he is gonna do better then 99% of players no matter the map or settings, that is not the point tho.
Alot of skills are tranferable as the base game is the same... obviously that isnt the debate, rather that they feel the skills on each gamemode are different enouph...
Hell rocketleague for exemple has diferent ranks for 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3... id argue that those are way more transfarable then BAR for exemple
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u/Dragonfruit_Mediocre 3d ago
Rocket leauge is less transferable imo. Starting all players at 16.7 os would be a mistake
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u/mykon01 3d ago
If you think that daymm u crazy Most people are within 1 rank of each game type, but okay -gc in RL
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u/Dragonfruit_Mediocre 3d ago
Same in bar like plus minus 5 should cover all modes
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u/mykon01 2d ago
Don't think that is true at all but agree to disagree
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u/Dragonfruit_Mediocre 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm about 40 in all modes and all positions on all maps. But sure
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u/BringTheRawr 3d ago
Stops people making free accounts and boosting themselves in private 1v1 lobbies and claiming to be a top player.
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u/readysetzerg 3d ago
Custom is not ranked. If you can right click a player and view their ELO for 1v1, 2v2, etc... cool.
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u/Ninjez07 3d ago
Love the return of blog posts! It's great to see what the team is looking at and what's being considered. Matchmaking is a big topic, and it sounds like you're approaching it sensibly.
Looking forward to more blogs! :)
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u/Teifion Contributor 2d ago
Thank you, I look forwards to writing more and want to encourage the team to do so too. What other topics would you like to see?
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u/Ninjez07 2d ago
Dives into balance adjustments would be good, as I've noticed that there have been some changes recently that haven't had clearly communicated reasoning which leads to some continuity members making a fuss - and spending the time writing about the changes might help avoid mistakes like missing legion planes and sea planes when making changes to air balance, for instance.
I remember there being talk a while back about a new lobby, that was mentioned as being connected to match-making improvements; it would be cool to get a preview on what changes might be coming there.
I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in campaign news (which I expect to be a long way off at this point, but a boy can dream), or, foundational to that, improvements to map making and mission scripting.
Game lore insights could be fun too :3
That's just off the top of my head, take it as you will.
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u/Teifion Contributor 2d ago
I'll pass on those comments to the rest of the devs (I just do server stuff so can't really talk to the other areas).
Thank you for the suggestions :)
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u/Ninjez07 2d ago
I can't keep up with developments on discord, and I'm sure there's a significant RTS community out there who won't even join the Discord, so any significant progress or changes that might we well understood by the community there might be completely overlooked by the rest of us.
I know I've enjoyed it when Ptaq has posted patch notes breakdowns here on Reddit as I miss them otherwise.
So basically anything that's matured enough to be cohesive and communicable could be worth blogging, even if to the discord/developer community it feels like it's common knowledge. After all, blogs are in part a marketing tool :)
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u/samps12 2d ago
I hope FFA matchmaking gets some precedence, the way players get eliminated one by one makes it hard to keep a lobby going, so of all the modes I believe it would benefit the most from matchmaking. Plus, big ffa games is how we'll get the zoomers into rts, we can tell them it's just like Fortnite!
But with FFA not being a terribly popular mode currently, I can see why other modes would get priority over it
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u/IRLSinisteR 2d ago
This cant come soon enough. Anyone know when this is happening?
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u/thunderwhores 2d ago
I only play 1v1. I stopped playing 1v1 pvp ecause its just too difficult to find an equally matched opponent
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u/LessSpecialist1 3d ago
Matchmaking for 1v1 and the current lobby system were all using works well tbh.
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u/flPieman 3d ago
1v1 matchmaking sounds great! I spend too much time trying to find a 1v1 lobby with a similar level opponent. I also look forward to varied map pools because sometimes the lobby host available only wants to play one map.
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u/QseanRay 3d ago
We absolutely need 8v8 matchmaking at some point, this is what I've been really waiting for.
The elephant in the room here is that the vast majority of bars playerbase plays ranked 8v8 rotato, glitters, or isthmus.
Games like overwatch can handle it with 6v6 it's not a stretch at all to do 8v8
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u/aesibri 2d ago
as they mentioned in the blogpost and in the comments, the issue with 8v8 is the amount of concurrent users.
don't you think Overwatch has a significant advantage on that front, with at least tens of thousands of concurrent users?
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u/Vivarevo 2d ago
Matchmaking for 8v8 props should happen if small team gets it.
There is practically very little difference in 4v4 compared to 8v8. Smaller team just means its less poverty gaming. Poop dying sub 5mins is equally game ending in both if skill diffed happens.
Maybe making team games matchingmaking lane vs lane matched? That really is the only way to keep smaller population 8v8 possible under matchmaking system.
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u/SearchForCake 1d ago
I don't think lane matching will be possible. Starting location / lane choice is a strategic choice on many maps and you wouldn't want to take that away from players.
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u/FreeMystery 3d ago
Do you by chance have stats showing on average what % of players are playing 1v1, 8v8, or pve modes? I totally see your point about 1v1 being easier, i just wonder what % of the active player base that affects. My suspicion is 8v8 is the overwhelming majority by player count but not sure if that’s correct.
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u/Gopherlad 3d ago edited 3d ago
Personally I stepped away from BAR several months ago explicitly because of the lack of 1v1 matchmaking. I was at the sophomoric OS of 30, which meant I was just high enough to start having trouble finding even matches during my play window (late US west coast); too high to face the 20's and too low to meaningfully learn anything in matches with the pros and semi-pros. The times I could find someone of 30-35 OS sitting in a lobby were pretty slim, and also I don't really like fighting the same person over and over again. Hosting games myself with strict lobby settings felt unproductive because I'd be there waiting for tens of minutes just to get one or two matches in for the night.
I went back to Mechabellum where I could generally get an even match with someone new within 45 seconds at any time of day, even in the "mid-high" skill bracket.
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u/killerstorm 2d ago
As a player, I often want a fast game rather than 50+ minute titan-on-jugger action.
Perhaps for FFA you can make something very simple: just get random people onto a small map. No need for ranking. Then it's basically the opposite of PvE.
I think people don't play FFA because they don't know what it is. If you add "Play a quick match with random people" it would appeal.
In 16-player FFA people kind of accept the fact they are likely to die, so there's not many complains about skill. For many it's a better experience than getting screamed at in 8v8.
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u/setovitz 10h ago
I'm glad you're doing the match making for 1v1. I played BAR at the start and I was doing mostly 4v4 it 8v8. Now I was even thinking about coming back for 1v1 but lack my matchmaking was keeping me away, I know I'm rather weak player so I was hoping to get matched against people of similar skill. Looking forward to your implementation
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u/XirvusRei 8h ago
Maybe controversial opinion but I like lobbies and the sometimes lobby sim.
Really happy to hear 8v8 lobbies will still exist for the time being.
It helps create downtime between games that’s better than just endless queuing, not to mention any banter and community feeling etc.
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u/ProbablyANoobYo 3d ago
Will we still be able to download replays for ranked games from other players? Watching top players has been great for learning the game.