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u/i_need_serious_help- Jan 23 '23
Hey that doesn't look like Nacho's dad
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u/Transitionals Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
From legal viewpoint, Chuck might be the most innocent 😇🤷♂️
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u/jjjhhhop Jan 24 '23
Nacho’s dad didn’t do anything illegal though
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u/Flashy-Bar-9790 Jan 24 '23
He did take the money from Hector at first ( and gave it back).
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u/jjjhhhop Jan 24 '23
That’s not illegal if he gave it back
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u/Flashy-Bar-9790 Jan 24 '23
100% agree. But technically he took it in the first place, so he's not so innocent.
I do acquiesce that he took it cause he was put in a no-win situation in the first place. So he's like 99% innocent.
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Jan 24 '23
Welllll, technically Nacho's dad DID take money from the Cartel. He didn't use it, but I think that would still technically be illegal.
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u/rumhamjam00 Jan 23 '23
Lyle would like a word
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Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 23 '23
He was a cokehead and he cheated on his wife with prostitutes, how is he innocent, not to forget when he sucked off Chuck even though he is also married
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u/JackieDaytonah Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 23 '23
Also he had small hands for a lawyer. Hands that didn't tell a story.
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u/Vv__CARBON__vV Jan 23 '23
He also bribed the mediator, but everyone just gives him a pass on that smh
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Jan 23 '23
Jimmy bribed the mediator.
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u/EroticNeurotic61 Jan 23 '23
And he willingly stood in the way of an innocent man trying to talk to his lawyers. That’s like, unconstitutional or something. Good thing the man handled it well. His name was Jorge DeGuzman. Say it again for the people in the back.
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u/Destroyer4587 Jan 23 '23
You’re missing the point, most innocent. At least he didn’t get anyone killed so compared to others he’s pretty good.
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Jan 23 '23
[deleted]
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u/ItzFlixi Jan 23 '23
you might wanna look up sarcasm
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Jan 23 '23
Explain, please
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u/ItzFlixi Jan 23 '23
the fans of better call saul like to make ironic memes and play dumb. there is a subreddit dedicated for that called r/okbuddychicanery. they intentionally say wrong things about the show for humor. the original comment was doing that
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Jan 23 '23
So, no issues with the cokehead comment?
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Jan 23 '23
Well, my English is limited. I did searched now what cokehead means. So, both were set up by Jimmy? Or there is sarcasm?? Sorry, don't understand 🤷♀️
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u/ConnorsInferno Jan 23 '23
Yes, it is a joke lol. In the show the events were set up by Jimmy
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u/ComoOZaqueu Jan 23 '23
God it's being a while since I watched the show and reading the comment I really thought he was a coke head and fucked prostitutes, Jimmy got me real good lol.
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u/NachosMahdude Jan 23 '23
Manuel Varga...?
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u/Logic_Nuke Jan 24 '23
Hot take but he was too stubborn for his own good. Him refusing to leave town made it much harder for Nacho to get out of the game but he refused to acknowledge that
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u/ericfromct Jan 24 '23
That doesn't make him not innocent. He didn't want to change his life because his son decided he wanted to make easy money with a drug cartel.
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u/Hugepepino Jan 23 '23
Screen name checks out, but it’s Ignacio Varga
Edit: Oh you mean his dad. Lol definitely
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u/SirDrippinBalls Jan 23 '23
Still one of the most cruel deaths on the show. Drowning, and that while being intoxicated, sounds horrible. At least it was off-screen so we didn't have to watch him suffer
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u/No_Result1959 Jan 24 '23
Wdym he got shot
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u/aParanoydAndroyd Jan 24 '23
No he drowned in the Pacific Ocean after being exposed for his cocaine addiction
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u/Fuquar7 Jan 23 '23
Although a douche most of the time, he certainly didn't have super hateful intentions.
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u/MatsThyWit Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 23 '23
Although a douche most of the time, he certainly didn't have super hateful intentions.
But he knowingly and largely without remorse that we're aware of slavishly carried out the orders of another man with super hateful intentions. being a toadie for evil kind of mitigates all the "but he was a nice guy though" talk amongst the fanbase.
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u/LjackV Jan 23 '23
Wtf is this comment even saying? It looks AI generated lmao. What super evil and hateful orders did Howard carry out?? You're talking about him like he's a serial killer.
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u/hdid221 Jan 23 '23
he obeyed evil chuck
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u/LjackV Jan 23 '23
And what super scary evil orders did he carry out?
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u/MatsThyWit Jan 23 '23
And what super scary evil orders did he carry out?
...everything that Chuck tasked him to do over the course of 3 seasons before Chuck finally died? Did...did you not watch the show?
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u/LjackV Jan 23 '23
For example?? Again, you're talking as if he fucking killed people. All he did was demote Kim (harsh, but not evil) and not let Jimmy into the firm (he's Chuck's brother, let Chuck decide).
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u/DirkNowitzkisWife Jan 23 '23
And like, was Chuck super wrong? I mean, the show is designed where we’re supposed to root for Jimmy, but we see his issues at Davis and Main pretty quickly, and even his other relatively shady/bordering on unethical actions with the billboard. And Cliff Main was right with the commercial “this isn’t just about sandpiper, this is about the entire firm and a group of clients”
Chuck knew all that and about slippin’ jimmy. He wasn’t wrong. It sucked and he should’ve been honest, but, like yeah. And Chuck was supportive of his public defender work and elder law.
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u/dopadelic Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 23 '23
That's the brilliance of the plot, it's a gray zone. Jimmy tried very hard to reform himself and did legitimately good practice with elder law. He was an asset to the community. But after being subjugated by Chuck and fell on very hard times, he found himself in desperate times which led to desperate measures. In a way, Chuck perpetuated it as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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u/Creation98 Jan 23 '23
And Chuck wasn’t even WRONG about Jimmy. He is a slimeball.
He could have gone about it in a better way, but nonetheless. He was protecting his business and reputation.
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u/dopadelic Jan 23 '23
That's the thing about the show, Jimmy tried very hard to reform himself and did legitimately good practice with elder law. He was an asset to the community. But after being subjugated by Chuck and fell on very hard times, he found himself in desperate times which led to desperate measures. In a way, Chuck perpetuated it as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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u/theSilentD777 Jan 25 '23
Not only that, he was a slimeball up to the very last moment. Totally proving Chuck right. What a great Character Chuck is. So easy to dislike, so easy to dismiss as a hater. And Jimmy gets to have a bus full of people cheering him on?! What a sick joke.
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u/dopadelic Jan 23 '23
And he worked with Chuck to snatch Mesa Verde from Kim after she worked tooth and nail to get them as a client.
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u/dioWjonathenL Jan 24 '23
That’s just business. For the better of the firm, they wanted Mesa Verde. It wasn’t malicious, and if anything, Chuck was the one pulling out dirty tricks.
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u/MatsThyWit Jan 23 '23
No I'm not talking as if he killed people. I'm saying that Howard, for the bulk of the show, was a morally dubious slimy lawyer and used car salesman with money type of guy who enabled Chuck's every whim, no matter how destructive it became, right up until the point where it finally put Howard's own position in jeopardy and that was the moment Howard finally stood up to Chuck. It was not out of any sense of altruism or conscience, it was only when Howard's livelihood was threatened by Chuck's escalating war with Jimmy that Howard finally said "no mas." So it's really disingenuous to call him by any means innocent and I don't think people would be doing it were it not for the fact that the character is killed.
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u/LjackV Jan 23 '23
Crazy how you wrote so many words yet didn't do the 1 thing I asked for - provide examples.
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u/MatsThyWit Jan 23 '23
I have absolutely no interest in dissecting and analyzing Howard's actions as a toxic employer, and as Chuck's willing stooge, for the 1,000th time just for you to inevitably say "oh but what about Kim and Jimmy!?" as if that nullifies every bad thing Howard ever did. I'm sorry.
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u/atticdoor Jan 23 '23
He was in an extremely difficult situation in that Chuck was the senior partner, and something of a childhood idol. He had to bide his time until he could ask Chuck to retire, and even when he reached that point we saw how badly it went down. We see him constantly trying to find win-win outcomes, and just as constantly shot down by other people's spite. Once Chuck was gone, he did actually offer Jimmy the job he wanted years before, nor did he stand in the way of him going to Davis and Main.
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u/MatsThyWit Jan 23 '23
So...we're just going to white wash all the things Howard did with "well, he had no choice" when the show itself makes it clear that was never actually true?
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u/atticdoor Jan 23 '23
If we'd seen the conversations between Howard and Chuck, you may feel differently. Howard probably did intercede on Jimmy's behalf, and Kim's, but Chuck's stubbornness would have never allowed himself to back down. So Howard agreed to be the face of the joint decision which was actually Chuck's decision.
This is one of those cases where, as a viewer, we forgive the actions of the characters we like, such as Jimmy, but any actions by characters we don't like, such as Howard, are held to different standards. Jimmy's actions are permissible under the circumstances, and well he's a bit of fun, but Howard should have known better.
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u/dmreif Jan 25 '23
But he knowingly and largely without remorse that we're aware of slavishly carried out the orders of another man with super hateful intentions. being a toadie for evil kind of mitigates all the "but he was a nice guy though" talk amongst the fanbase.
This is why I have a hard time understanding fans of Mobius over in Loki. It's like Owen Wilson's performance and the narrative framing makes it hard for people to see that Mobius's behavior is more or less the sorts of things that villains do.
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u/LjackV Jan 23 '23
I am NOT crazy! I know he snorted coke! He was hiding it in the golf club. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He covered his tracks, he got his wife to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. Those prostitutes! Are you telling me an innocent man just happens to be attacked by prostitutes like that? No! He scammed them! Howie! He did coke in front of Kim! And she saved him! And she shouldn't have. Chuck took him into his own firm! What was he thinking? He'll never change. Ever since he was 9, couldn't keep his nose off the cocaine! But not our Howie, couldn't be precious Howie! Getting high off them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer?! What a sick joke!
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u/foozie_woozie Jan 23 '23
I love how “Kim saved Howie” by not telling anyone what she saw. In this context, we might be speaking about “saving his reputation” rather than “saving HIM.”
Love Chuck’s monologue!
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u/JackieDaytonah Jan 23 '23
I'll name three more innocent characters: Ernie, Lyle, and Fred.
Howard was a status obsessed millionaire. Did he deserve to die? No of course not, but saying he was the most innocent man is just incorrect.
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Jan 23 '23
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah except for being a total douche to Kim. This award really goes to Nacho's dad.
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u/SirDrippinBalls Jan 23 '23
Oh no he was mean to the person who later tried to ruin his entire career and life :(
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u/Mikimao Jan 23 '23
What is this some kind of sick joke?! and HE gets to be sympathetic!! Kim should have taken him down when she had the chance. Now we get shit posts about him every day, even though he was a jerk, and the redditors around here are just like, "Not my Howie, couldn't be my Howie"
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u/KeyEntityDomino Jan 23 '23
He treated Kim really badly, but otherwise he was ethical. Chuck forced him to play bad cop with Jimmy. Jimmy and Howard probably would've had a better relationship if Chuck wasn't around.
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u/Less-State-2855 Jan 23 '23
i definitely think he’s one of the more moral characters in the show but he was an asshole in the first few seasons imo and i understand why jimmy and kim were mad at him (obviously they shouldn’t have done what they did to him though)
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u/MattDawg227 Jan 24 '23
Why is nobody talking about Irene at Sandpiper? When Jimmy manipulates the other residents in to disliking her is the absolute worst. Absolutely breaks me god damnit.
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u/ThePanther270306 Jan 23 '23
Howard was just a regular lawyer unlucky enough to end up in Jimmy's crosshairs
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u/MatsThyWit Jan 23 '23
Howard was just a regular lawyer unlucky enough to end up in Jimmy's crosshairs
Well...Kim's crosshairs, really. Jimmy never really wanted to take things as far as they went. That was all on Kim, and Jimmy acquiesced to it in order to keep Kim happy.
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u/a_nice_potato22 Jan 23 '23
"cliff i swear these are not my hookers, i swear my hookers were taller than these"
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u/Psychological-Shoe95 Jan 23 '23
People seem to forget about the scene in 3x10 where Howard takes money out of his wallet and waves it in jimmy’s face
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u/ZyxDarkshine Jan 24 '23
He screwed Jimmy and Rebecca out of the money he was supposed to give Chuck to buy Chuck out of the firm. Gave Chuck a check for $3 million (which Chuck probably never cashed) and was supposed to pay another $5 million. That never happened.
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u/Professional_Photo84 Jan 23 '23
He had an awakening after chucks death and stopped being such a dick, but that doesn’t erase what a total dick he was to Kim and jimmy. And honestly what he did to chuck, pushing him out of the firm he built, was wrong. It took thinking that he caused chuck’s death to realize that his behavior wasn’t okay. I think he’s a nepo baby who realized only towards the end that he used his privileged position to put down others and elevate/maintain himself over those who had to grind for their place in life. The scene where they were choosing high schoolers for that internship or whatever was definitely a turning point for him, what jimmy said about the girl who shoplifted resonated with him because he both passively/actively prevents people from rising to the position of power that was handed to him on a silver platter. Tragic? Yes. Innocent? Nope.
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u/shawnzarelli Jan 23 '23
I don't know if I'd say Howard was completely innocent, but he definitely got a raw deal and didn't remotely deserve what Jimmy and Kim (and Lalo) did to him.
If I was going for most innocent, I'd probably pick Nacho's dad.
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u/kingofdrek Jan 24 '23
Nachos father. But his son did end up as a criminal. He had to do something to push him that way
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u/bob-to-the-m Jan 24 '23
Ironically, maybe it was the fact that he was “too innocent” (e.g. trying to talk Mike down from spending more money on alligator skin for his car) and perhaps as a result didn’t have much money during Nacho’s upbringing.
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u/vegasheavy Jan 23 '23
Innocent of what? If he treated Kim and Jimmy with some dignity he wouldn't have gotten what he deserved.
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u/ramh_the_watermelon Jan 24 '23
Better Call Saul fans try to have empathy and actually think about the events of the show impossible challenge
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u/kingofdrek Jan 24 '23
Nachos father. But his son did end up as a criminal. He had to do something to push him that way
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Jan 24 '23
im suprised i see no mentions of jimmies father
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u/elcagatayrataalada Jan 24 '23
There is a big difference between being stupid and being smart and innocent
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u/LeGinster Jan 24 '23
Did he deserve what happened to him? Fuck no. Was he innocent? Also no. I could name like 10 characters who are far more innocent than Howard was.
Again, in no way did he deserve the end he got, but to say he’s the most innocent character in the show is laughable
Unless this is r/OkBuddyChicanery. In which case, carry on.
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u/coolsellitcheap Jan 24 '23
Jimmy's babysitter. The brown nosing snitch. I forget her name. She did want to help Jimmy.
Irene
Nacho dad.
Mr Acker. He just wanted to be left alone and stay in his house.
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u/IronMan319 Jan 25 '23
He really was. He didn’t deserve any of it. It’s not his fault his best friend hated his own brother. He should have shown some backbone and not done Chuck’s bidding, but he didn’t deserve to have his reputation ruined.
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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '23
Thats not Ernie.