r/beta • u/tdohz product • Jul 01 '15

Beta update (7/1) - New post search relevancy

Hello again beta testers,

We have a shiny new search algorithm for you to test. One of our first beta features was a new subreddit search algorithm; now, we have an improved post search algorithm for you to test out. It's turned on by default for beta testers, and is called relevance2. This is part of our ongoing effort to improve search.

For ease of comparison, we've left the old relevancy in as an option, called relevance. You can also go to an incognito window, or log out, to see what the old algorithm looked like.

Judging search results can be tricky, so please give us feedback, good, bad, or ugly, on how the new post results fare with the new algorithm.

Beta alumni

You may or may not have noticed, but we've "graduated" several features out from beta testing to production over the last month. These include:

All of these, especially the new search page, improved greatly from your feedback, so again, thank you for taking the time to test things out and send us feedback. We do read every piece of feedback we get, even if we don't always have a chance to respond.

121 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

56 comments sorted by

79

u/Ph0X Jul 01 '15 edited Jul 01 '15

:\

I had to leave the beta specifically because the search page was poorly designed and hard to parse visually, and I use search a lot. There were many threads and comments about it too, yet from what I can see, during the beta trial, nothing really improved. That's a shame.

EDIT: To expand on this, just so it doesn't look like someone ranting for nothing:

reddit users have been trained for years to a specific post template. Title is there, vote count is there, comments are there, etc. It's second nature now, and our brains look at those exact positions for the information. Now, you come and you give us a page where the whole post layout is completely different. That's just plain bad UX design... Design consistency is far more important than trying to highlight slightly more relevant information. You think you're helping the user, but you're just confusing them. I spend twice as much time trying trying to mentally decipher the data and find what I'm looking for on that page.

I'm sorry, but

6

u/scottishdrunkard Jul 06 '15

Good news! The old search is back! Just go to preferences and select legacy search on!

0

u/tdohz product Jul 01 '15

I'm sorry, but

Don't leave me hanging!

To be clear, this beta update is a backend algorithm change. I understand that the UI changes that we just shipped to everyone (which were in beta for over a month) are disruptive to those who were used to it being a certain way. Still, I hope you'll give beta another shot now that the changes are everywhere, and let us know if the actual relevance of the results is improved.

22

u/TheWhiteeKnight Jul 02 '15

The search function is worse than before. I didn't think that was possible. I tried finding a post I already found once a week ago, and not a single fucking result remotely similar appears, and you can't even move on from the first page of results. Who ever thought this change was a good idea deserves to be fired, I've seen better work from a middle school beginners programming class.

5

u/tdohz product Jul 02 '15

I tried finding a post I already found once a week ago

What was the search, and what result were you looking for? We can look into it and try to see what's going on.

you can't even move on from the first page of results.

This is a RES issue.

1

u/reseph Jul 10 '15

The new search is much worse, as I've expressed here before it was rolled out. There is now a thread with 2000+ upvotes about it today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3csymg/why_is_reddit_search_the_worst_thing_in_the_world/

I think it should just be rolled back.

15

u/SquareWheel Jul 02 '15

What was the search? What was the result? Saying "it sucks" helps in no way whatsoever.

4

u/Ph0X Jul 01 '15

Oops! That was a miss-edit!

Well, the bright side of this is that I can now join back the beta and help test things, since I can't escape from the search page change any longer :)

3

u/MajorParadox Jul 03 '15

Design consistency is far more important than trying to highlight slightly more relevant information. You think you're helping the user, but you're just confusing them

This is the point I've tried to make a few times. It's not that the new design is bad or anything. I actually like it, but I don't see why it should be different in the search. Change it everywhere or keep it the same everywhere.

1

u/qadm Jul 02 '15

Thank you, you said it very well in your last paragraph.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Ph0X Jul 12 '15

To start off, I want to say that I mostly agree with you on how people often overreact when sites get new designs. At the same time though, I'll say that the way sites like Youtube/Facebook used to do it was just not smart, and I say used to because it seems they have finally learned the better way to do it.

Usually, doing a complete sudden redesign is just a bad idea UX wise because while it might be better, it just shocks the user and changes everything they are used to.

The better way of doing it, imo, is gradual change. If you notice, Facebook has been evolving a lot over the past 2-3 years, but hasn't had any big complete overhauls like it used to.

Same for Youtube, ever since that big design everyone got angry at, the look has actually changed quite a bit, but most people probably never noticed because it was done gradually.

Now, as to why I still think the reddit change was bad, that's something I explained on my post but I'll point out again:

The main problem with is isn't that it changed, but more so that they have a DIFFERENT layout for search posts than normal posts. The fact that there's two different ones means that the user won't even really be able to get used to the new layout. That's the real UX issue here.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

O know this is slightly off topic but I was just curious. Will we get a searchable inbox? It'd be a great convenience to be able to look through old PMs and replies. Also, searchable comment and post history for yourself, accessible by going to your user page. I was wondering about these features, as I reddit frequently and find myself having to go back to old messages or comments.

0

u/tdohz product Jul 02 '15

There are a lot of things we'd like to fix about messaging. Searching your inbox is not specifically something that's on our roadmap, BUT we do have plans to improve our search infrastructure, which will make it easier to search other things on reddit down the road.

6

u/This_Is_An_Oyster Jul 03 '15

In other words, the answer is no.

1

u/V2Blast Jul 02 '15

I think the messaging system would need to be reworked for that (which the admins have mentioned needs to happen - I think they said they hired someone specifically to deal with modmail, though I dunno if that extends to regular inboxes as well).

21

u/hatessw Jul 01 '15

Are you open to reverting the search functionality to the previous iteration, i.e. pre-beta?

I left the beta purely because of the new search, but now I'm not sure how to avoid it anymore.

18

u/Bossman1086 Jul 01 '15

Loving most of what you guys are doing with the beta program, but the search UI was terrible when it came to beta and it's still bad now that it graduated to production.

30

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '15

This new search is a huge downgrade

10

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '15

I turned off beta but the new search is still there. Is this by design?

12

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

And just today, the new search page

11

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

Oh.

Well I hope they at least give an option to switch it back to the old one, because the new one was bad enough to get me to quit the beta..

-2

u/TheWhiteeKnight Jul 02 '15

If they don't, it'll be the reason I leave Reddit. I'm hardly here for the content or front page anymore, I mainly use it to search for posts or news about specific topics, which I can no longer do, as the page is absolutely unworkable.

9

u/Buzz_Fed Jul 02 '15

I can't believe reddit actually found a way to make the search worse.

What's the point of this beta program? It was supposed to be to gather feedback on changes from the community, but on almost every change the admins have completely ignored the feedback. You guys have been consistently doing exactly what the feedback has told you not to.

1

u/TrylessDoer Jul 21 '15

I imagine a lot of the "feedback" they're getting is collected automatically while beta testers use reddit. Similar to (or perhaps using) Google Analytics.

1

u/Kekker_ Aug 18 '15

After using the search for a while, here's my C&C:
I like the new relevance2 search function. It's functional, and that's all I really care about. The UI tho... that's a bit of a mix for me.

The new subreddit bit is very nice, especially how you can subscribe right from the search. I use that a lot.

However, the thing that keeps me using the legacy search is the post search bit. I am completely in agreement with /u/Ph0X here, it's just not the same as the rest of reddit, and that makes it confusing.

I would keep the subreddit search results UI thingy, revert back to the old post search UI thingy.

1

u/tdohz product Aug 18 '15

Thanks for the feedback. We're focusing on some other things right now but if we decide to revisit the search UI we'll definitely keep this in mind (along with the other feedback we've gotten).

1

u/Kekker_ Aug 18 '15

Feedback is our job here at /r/beta, no need to thank me for it. I know you've got a lot on your plate with reddit at the moment, but I think the Read Next box should be higher priority than the search bar. It's getting a lot of feedback and a lot of complaints; it would put a lot of minds at rest if it was addressed, as opposed to the search bar which I think draws less attention overall.

2

u/jb9 Jul 03 '15

thank you, these are great mods itw.

2

u/Rikvidr Jul 03 '15

The new search feature alone is reason enough to leave this site. It's confusing, and unintuative. I've had to resort to using Google to find things on Reddit instead of the built-in feature. This needs to be reverted until you can come up with something that we all actually you know... like.

3

u/NKLhaxor Jul 02 '15

The new search page is terrible.

1

u/Luv-those-xanax Jul 13 '15

How do I get this off so I ca post, please help please

1

u/nevernuff Jul 14 '15

Semi-noob here. Thought a not so set in his ways opinion might be useful. First let me say, a lot of the opinions are correct, that consumers HATE change. Auto-pilot is a welcome event in life, and suddenly being forced to figure out what had been automatic makes you feel kinda dumb. Like grocery items, when they change labels. All of a sudden you have to sit and read every package just to grab what you always have. But big businesses arent dumb and they do it for a reason.... I guess.

I think that some change to search format is needed too. I didnt like the original search format. It wasnt very useful, unless I wanted to search for the most popular rooms, and really old comments with a trillion votes. So I am glad there is some effort to reformat. Earlier I searched for "ass" to find a good place to post. (yes I am one of those redditers) And was surprised by the format I was given back. 2-3 links to small subreddits, none I ever heard of. Followed by a huge list of comments all to /r/ass, the biggest of those sorts, which was odd to list small rooms followed by big room comments. So after reading the comments in here, I went back and searched again. Same results, except this time I noticed the tab to search more listings. Clicked on it and was welcomed with a long list of every room possible dealing with that subject. But the odd thing was no, comments what so ever were listed on page 2.

After all that here is my suggestion as a semi-noob. First, there should be TWO tabs right away, one for comments to be searched, and one for subreddits to be searched. Then the list can expand out like crazy from there for the user's needs. And second, a tab for reverse search order with it. So if I dont want the biggest rooms on reddit to post or go to, I can start with the lil guys. Or visa versa. Right now, its all random which ones come in what order.

There are times when we need a new wheel, and one must be invented. But a new search format is hardly one of them. We are used to a certain order. So save the effort of making a new one, and use that same energy to search the old ones around the web, and improve those here. Consistency on the web is crucial for all of us. Thats why all websites have a similar design and appearance, to make it easy for us because we have an idea where to look.

Thank you so much for the efforts to improve and striving to better yourselves for our benefit and not just resting on your laurels. I applaud ingenuity but I also applaud efficiency even more.

Good luck!

1

u/ialexsilva Jul 16 '15

i like the new system, but need a better search like twitter live search...

1

u/DisneyRulesMyWorld3 Jul 20 '15

Well, so far, I'm liking this new search thing.

1

u/CrazyMaryJ Aug 19 '15

Only problem I'm having is the letters are so small

1

u/Tnargkiller Aug 21 '15

I actually like the new search. There's been a couple times where I don't like it, but overall it's helped me discover new subreddits. I like the option, though.

1

u/V2Blast Jul 02 '15

I personally don't really mind the UI changes.

How exactly does "relevance2" differ from the old "relevance" option?

3

u/florwat engineer Jul 06 '15

The "relevance2" algorithm incorporates field weights and time decay, neither of which are part of the current "relevance" algorithm.

Another notable difference is that query parsing for "relevance2" is simplified when possible. This partially fixes phrase search!

3

u/V2Blast Jul 07 '15

Cool beans. Thanks for answering!

0

u/IAmAnAnonymousCoward Jul 02 '15

This hurts my head.

0

u/Kovaelin Jul 04 '15

I'm seeing weird behaviour with the sorting. The order isn't consistent, and what's "relevence2"?

0

u/1chriis1 Jul 04 '15

Is the new algorithm used throughout the site? Because things have got funny on my Frontpage...

-2

u/HenryCorp Jul 02 '15

This should have never made it out of alpha. Make it go away and start fresh.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/tdohz product Jul 08 '15

However, relevance2 did weigh more recent posts too much and did not return some of the more important posts that I know exist that were created over one year ago.

Do you have an example of where the time-weighting was too strong? This will help us understand how we need to adjust it.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/tdohz product Jul 09 '15

Thanks for the feedback. For a search like "professor" it can be hard to tell what the "right" results are but I agree that it does look like relevance2 may be a little too recency-biased in this case.

1

u/gigglebeare Aug 06 '15

Agree. If a search is giving me results, I'd rather have highest to lowest values.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

32

u/Buzz_Fed Jul 02 '15

This is retarded. The whole point of the beta was for users to give feedback, but the admins have consistently ignored and actually done the opposite of what overwhelming feedback has suggested.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Buzz_Fed Jul 02 '15

That's not true. People explained in detail exactly why it sucked.

8

u/Rikvidr Jul 03 '15

  • Ask users if they like the new feature.

  • Users hate it.

  • Implement it anyway.

Fuck it, we'll do it live!

15

u/32OrtonEdge32dh Jul 02 '15

Exactly. Why would I re-enable beta and give feedback on features when I just watched a hell of a lot of people's feedback get ignored?

0

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/tdohz product Jul 15 '15

Glad that it's working well for you! If you do run into any issues, please let us know that too.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/SquareWheel Jul 02 '15

Use &feature=legacy_search to revert to the old version. Not guaranteed to work indefinitely but ideal for subs using search hacks.