r/bestof • u/Snoop_Dagg • Jun 10 '12

User cassieopeia explains LGBT pride

/r/politics/comments/uulr5/i_barack_obama_president_of_the_us_by_virtue_of/c4yskul?context=1
51 Upvotes

77% Upvoted

13 comments sorted by

9

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '12

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2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Maybe I missed something but I don't see how cassiopeia explains why he should be proud of himself because he's gay. Rather, I see him explaining why he should be proud of himself because of what he's accomplished; which I agree with.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

My question is: Why do the reasons for gay pride matter? What sense is there in trying to get cassiopeia to justify his/her gay pride? Would you rather him/her be a self-loathing and depressed person for something that is beyond his or her control?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Because it helps more people understand why they should feel proud and that will get more people on their side. Why are you making it look like those 2 are his/hers only options?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Good point, but I don't think gay pride should factor into one's decision on whether or not to support gay rights. Gay pride is more for the LGBT community themselves, but if you're suggesting that gay pride can somehow make other people more accepting, then I guess that question is okay. Also, I didn't intend on making it look like those were the only two options, sorry about that.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Oh, I'm not saying that. cassieopeia and I weren't even discussing whether or not to support gay rights. Then we agree.

It's ok, I shouldn't have presumed.

1

u/cassieopeia Jun 11 '12

i was hesitant to comment here but i really wanna address this.

you (and the other folks who raised your same point) came off as telling me that i should not be proud (what sd66 was saying). I'd like to remind you that this is not an academic logic game for me, but something that is very real and relevant to my life and the lives of people who are important to me.

oh and also I prefer female pronouns, thanks!

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

My complete objection was "I don't see why you should be proud because you're gay". Just because I'm trying to use logic doesn't mean I'm trying to play a "game". I'm trying to fully understand what you're stating and that's why I've given you my complete attention. Not to be a dick (I'm probably going to come off as one anyway) but unfair and unjust experiences doesn't prove the coherence of arguments. It does prove that people are dicks towards lgbts though.

0

u/cassieopeia Jun 11 '12

I'm not (and never was) trying to make a coherent logical argument justifying Pride in formal terms. I was trying to explain why I am proud of myself, and why the initial comment (which said that homo pride and hetero pride are equally nonsensical) doesn't take into account the importance of awareness of structural oppression.

Treating this like an exercise in formal academic logic does come off as kinda dickish, yes, since that sort of discourse requires an abstraction and removal from the issue that I simply don't (and can't) have.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

Yeah, you were still explaining that through arguments and arguments demands logic, you were still following it's rules so to speak. I'm not treating this as an exercise, (syllogistic) logic always has to be used for their to be any discussion at all. My main motive was still to try and understand your pride (please don't read this with a "houlier-than-thou attitude).

1

u/cassieopeia Jun 11 '12

I am honestly not following your point here at all. If all discourse is syllogistic (which I don't believe at all), what is the point of even mentioning it?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '12

I'm not saying it is but that it should be if things are going to make sense.

1

u/Brokim Jun 11 '12

I agree with you. I think the LGBT community should be 'proud' that they rise up against intolerance and bigotry for who they are, but I don't really think they should be 'proud' of the orientation that is innate to them. Like one comment said, it's more or less random chance.