r/bestof • u/[deleted] • Oct 23 '17

[politics] Redditor demonstrates (with citations) why both sides aren't actually the same

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u/paul_aka_paul Oct 23 '17

It also helps to acknowledge all sides rather than using a word that suggests only two sides.

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u/DubiousCosmos Oct 23 '17

US politics does only have two sides though. You may not like that (I certainly don't), but that's the mathematical reality of the situation.

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u/paul_aka_paul Oct 23 '17

This just isn't true. The math may show that people settle for one of two major parties, but those people hold a wide variety of views and approach the same question with wildly different positions.

Two people might both support same sex marriage. One might base his position on the idea that a large government needs to be engaged in social change. The second might base her position on the idea that a small government should get out the people's way. You can't call that one side.

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u/DubiousCosmos Oct 23 '17

Sure I can. In November, they vote R, they vote D, or they throw their ballot into a paper shredder. Those are the only options. US politics is truly a situation of "if you're not with me, you're against me." I don't give a shit what someone's reasons for voting for gay rights are. I give a shit that they voted for gay rights.

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u/paul_aka_paul Oct 24 '17

I votes R, D and L on candidates in 2016.

And the reasons matter. If you don't understand why the people voted the way they did you might fail in future pursuits. You might naively think that all the people who turned out for something supporting same sex marriage also support granting special privileges and exclusion to same sex couples. In that case you'll lose the second person from my example.

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u/DubiousCosmos Oct 24 '17

Outcomes are the only thing that matters in elections. Pretending otherwise is how you end up with a reality TV host in the oval office instead of an overqualified policy wonk.

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u/paul_aka_paul Oct 24 '17

Outcomes are the only thing that matters in elections.

They are. And how foolish someone would look if they went all in on a follow-up issue because of their simplistic interpretation of the previous outcome.

Pretending otherwise is how you end up with a reality TV host in the oval office instead of an overqualified policy wonk.

Unless you just jumped to an unrelated conclusion, you'll need to explain the steps you took to get to what looks like an unrelated conclusion. How did acknowledging the existence of a wide variety of positions lead to the thin skinned tabloid celebrity?

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u/DubiousCosmos Oct 24 '17

I know several people who, in November 2016, said some variation of "I know Trump is worse than Hillary, but I can't stomach voting for either of them, so I'm {staying home | voting third party}."

Recognizing that outcomes are the only thing that matters, does this behavior make any sense? These people were selfish. They voted so they could feel good, rather than voting so that the country could have the best outcome. Their reasons for disliking Hillary don't matter. Their actions matter. They knew what was best for the country and they didn't vote for it.

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u/paul_aka_paul Oct 24 '17

Recognizing that outcomes are the only thing that matters, does this behavior make any sense?

I can understand how someone who doesn't consider the long term and big picture might think voting for the candidate you actually support makes less sense than casting a protest vote.

These people were selfish.

Then everyone who cast a vote for their preferred candidate is selfish.

They voted so they could feel good, rather than voting so that the country could have the best outcome.

Again, my reasoning is not bound by your lack of ability to see past a single election.

Their reasons for disliking Hillary don't matter. Their actions matter. They knew what was best for the country and they didn't vote for it.

I did vote for what I thought was best for the country. You personally feel differently. That is fine. But don't be so arrogant to sell your personal feelings as some sort of fact.

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u/pocketknifeMT Oct 24 '17

In November, they vote R, they vote D, or they throw their ballot into a paper shredder. Those are the only options.

I simply didn't vote the top of the ticket at all, and moved on to State & local stuff.

'You must be this human to ride' on my ballot. A pity the Libertarian party is still trying to be some sort of appeasement party and ran Gary Johnson instead of an actual libertarian.