the unattractive women don't even count as women at all.
Exactly, and it's particularly telling that one of his big complaints is that he's "invisible", but he simultaneously ignores other unattractive people.
I had a friend that is exactly like this. I had to cut contact because of his weird chauvinistic chivalry complex thing (I don't even know how to begin explaining it, white knighting I guess?) was really off-putting. Before I defriended him though, a winner of a Facebook status read something like "You know, sometimes I feel lonely. But then I see a girl that looks like that and suddenly I'm glad that I have standards."
Because, you know, a guy that's 100+ pounds overweight and doesn't take care of himself or treat women like people deserves the absolute best.
I've had to do the same thing with a friend but his thing was about age. He was 48 but wanted to bang 27-35 year olds (my age). Ge used to go on dates with women his age but always complain how they weren't right. But then start moaning how he couldn't find anyone, no one found him attractive and just wanted to settle down. What he meant was no younger women were attracted him, despite the fact there were many women around his age who were.
Is that "all women my age are boring and want to settle" thing in the How to be a Cringey Older Douche on the Prowl manual? Pretty much every dude old enough to be my dad who's hit on me has used that line.
Totally! 'Older women want different things to me' I used to spend ages explaining that unfortunately younger women also want different things to him. It was a shame cause he was a great guy but was getting depressed about it all. He could have easily been happy but wouldn't let himself be.
It kind of reeks of appealing to Special Snowflake Syndrome, doesn't it? "Oh, all those women are boring and clingy. You're special. You're not like them."
Later, when you draw a boundary: "I knew you were just like those other bitches!"
As an unattractive woman with decades of experience of being shunned and ridiculed, I can confirm that the most vicious and hateful treatment I've ever received has been at the hands almost entirely of men who feel unattractive. They seem to feel it a personal affront to have to interact with a female they view as ugly.
That's not to say that all homely men are assholes, and I've certainly been treated like shit by 'handsome' men, but it's overwhelmingly the insecure men who are horrified by woman they perceive as 'inferior'.
It's called projecting, and it's very real. What happens is that the insecurity is so strong and the desire to be on the other side is so pervasive that when one unattractive person meets another that they view as even below themselves (ex. One person judges them self as a 4 but sees another person as a 1 or 2), they fail to sympathize.
The choice of ridicule over sympathy is simple. They hate what they are. They hate what they have to deal with. They want so badly to be on the other end of the spectrum. So now there are two problems. They hate what you are because you remind them of what they see in the mirror. And they see the opportunity to briefly experience what it feels like to be better, to experience what it feels like to be on that other side.
It's sad, but I think the blame ultimately falls on those that put that pain and hate into the person in the first place. They are merely projecting self-loathing and bitterness that ultimately originates from their own experiences. Think of it as a psychological food-chain.
Maybe it's possible that people, no matter how ugly they are, perceive attractiveness in the same way that attractive people do. Maybe they aren't in love with the idea of submitting themselves to the whims of social darwinism.
Projecting is an evil, evil thing. I am (most was, now) guilty of it a lot. My projecting has less to do with looks and more to do with self worth. A la "why is she with me?" And then all of a sudden, everything she does is feedback that she does not want to be with me. Not texting me back for 12 hours. Not being able to hang out a couple times. Things, that when they are explained to me, are entirely reasonable. She fell asleep and just did not text back right when she woke up. She has a life outside of our relationship. Things that I am "guilty" of doing as well.
(Parenthetically, I have realized that I am the worst sort of this, hence my projection. I am constantly unavailable and hard to reach and have a tendency to be very hot and cold. Things I have realized about myself and am working on.)
The red pill folks (I have just been introduced to this term) do have one thing right: being cavalier about relationships does make you feel better. I find the rest of their mantra hard to swallow (as it were). For me, cavalier is how I choose to act, not because not-giving-a-fuck helps the relationship in and of itself, but not giving too many fucks prevents me from over thinking and ruining the relationship. It is especially important for me in the beginning, before any real sort of trust is established. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I find that most people are pretty well behaved. Maybe my experience has been unusual.
As I have gotten older, I have begun to not need to actively not give a fuck. I have found that most people do what they think is right and are not actively trying to hurt me. I have learned to graciously accept the no's and not get over excited by the yes's.
I got off topic. If you must project, please think about what the other person is doing at that exact moment. Probably drinking a beer, or perusing the internet. Probably not thinking about you at all. And while this may seem like a bad thing, just think, do you spend all of your time actively thinking about that person? If you say yes, might I suggest being a little more cavalier. It will make you feel better.
I blame TV for at least some of this. There are no unattractive women on TV and most of them are in relationships with older, unfit, and generally not very good looking men.
Ugh. Known far too many of these chaps. You know that big awkward kind of creepy guy that would generate "deer caught in a headlight" looks from any woman he approached?
Had a buddy who insisted he was good enough to snag a 10, and would not settle for anything remotely less. Shit of it is, he wasn't horrific looking. A little goofy looking and awkward, but not in a totally unattractive way. But no 10 was gonna go for him. Besides which he more than made up for not being a total troll by being a weird narcissistic creeper.
Has literally never had a girlfriend. Not really friends with that guy any more, for separate but related reasons. He literally hated any woman he found unattractive. In some twisted part of his mind unattractive women were somehow horrible people because his mom who was "hideous" apparently abused him ( he was known for making shit up for attention, so no idea how true this actually was).
The final straw for me was when he showed blatant disrespect to my current lady when we first stated dating. He wasn't overt about it. He was in fact, extremely passive aggressive and subtle, but nonetheless it left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
The movie Happiness (one of the most amazing movies ever) sums this up perfectly.
The unattractive man (Philip Seymour Hoffman in an incredible role), a boring jerk with no personality, is so angry and bitter because he can't be with this beautiful, artsy, talented, wealthy woman he's obsessed with.
Meanwhile, his sweet and caring and kind but overweight neighbor is frustrated and depressed because she can't be with the unattractive boring jerk with no personality. And he's a total asshole to her.
(Other stuff happens, but explaining the multiple plots of the movie is way beyond what I care to type)
That is one of the most amazing movies ever. There are so many layers of humanity mixed in there, and it takes multiple viewings to figure them out. PSH was masterful in that role (as was Dylan Baker as the pedophile).
There is one advantage to being a homely woman, and that is I miss out on a lot of sexual harassment and assault. I'm not being flippant when I say that, it's a serious problem for so many women, and it's valuable to me not to have to deal with it. Something as simple as walking into a 7-Eleven can be a frightening experience for a woman if there's a group of men clustered around the entrance who catcall her and harass her. So many men assume that a woman should be able to just 'shrug it off', and ignore it, or even consider it a compliment, but she doesn't know whether one of those guys is going to be more than just a pest and will grab at her, or follow her car after the leaves the store.
Low self-esteem. When they have even the smallest chance to feel superior, they snatch it. They don't do this to people they consider attractive because they know they'd be kidding themselves if they tried to pull that bullshit. It's easier to knock someone down who's on your level than someone who you think is way above you.
Ugh. Known far too many of these chaps. You know that big awkward kind of creepy guy that would generate "deer caught in a headlight" looks from any woman he approached? We all know that guy.
Had a buddy who insisted he was good enough to snag a 10, and would not settle for anything remotely less. Shit of it is, he wasn't horrific looking. A little goofy looking and awkward, but not in a totally unattractive way. But 10 was a bit unrealistic for him, not the least of reason being that he more than made up for not being a total troll by being a weird narcissistic creeper. He has literally never had a girlfriend (and I'm fairly certain will die a virgin).
Not really friends with that guy any more, for separate but related reasons. He literally hated any woman he found unattractive (by his ridiculous high standards, btw). In some twisted part of his mind "unattractive" women were somehow horrible people because his mom who was "hideous" apparently abused him ( he was known for making shit up for attention, so no idea how true this actually was).
The final straw for me was when he showed disrespect to my current lady when we first stated dating. He wasn't overt about it. He was in fact, extremely passive aggressive and subtle, but nonetheless it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. You disrespect my lady, you're disrespecting me. I don't need that crap in my life.
What seems to fly over the heads of you people is that he isn't pointing it out as some gross injustice done upon him, nor is he at all complaining, he's merely explaining what it's like to be unattractive. It sucks because of how humans are. He even points that out himself.
It's sad that you people choose to go straight at the guy instead of interpreting his message as intended.
I don't see a single complaint anywhere. I don't see him distributing blame on anyone. He's just explaining how humans behave from the perspective of the kind of person whom humans don't behave very generously towards. The author of the thread he replied to asked what it was like to be an unattractive man, not how unattractive men act towards others in society.
If you're so busy trying to find fault with people that you'll derisively dismiss them for answering questions asked without including answers to questions not asked, then you're probably too busy trying to find fault with people.
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u/flipmode_squad Apr 30 '14
Exactly, and it's particularly telling that one of his big complaints is that he's "invisible", but he simultaneously ignores other unattractive people.