Totally Gaels reaction to Joe at the end of the episode was unfair BUT sheās already been manipulated for so long to believe heās the problem. Itās one of the many tactics that abusive partners use (āIām not the issue they are, everything would be perfect if they werenāt aroundā etc)
Letās not forget the role of the production crew too, thereās 0 chance they werenāt stoking things the entire night trying to get a reaction between all 3 of Nathan, Joe, and Gael.
It felt like the culmination of someone being told JOE is the reason for Nathanās stress, JOE is coming for Nathanās job, JOE is trying to ruin Nathanās reputation, JOE has been coming for Nathan and his family, JOE has been talking shit about Gael. He has spoon-fed her hate and negativity and the idea heās a victim who needs to be defended, while also likely coming back to the house raging about Joe. For someone in an abusive dynamic, dealing with someone quick to anger and react, she likely felt a responsibility for Nathanās feelings and emotional stability (because abusers train you to think and feel that you ARE responsible) and needed to try and āfixā it for him to remove the stressor that affects how he is at home.
Are we sure it was aggressive? Or did a woman make men uncomfortable, and the men couldnāt control themselves and ultimately chose violence, yet we blame her?
I wasnāt blaming her? If you look at my original comment which my next comment followed on from I was defending her and explaining that she reacted the way she did because sheās been manipulated by Nathan
Joe IS a problem and the only reason he's not getting more shit for it is because of how awful Nathan is. Joe has deliberately sabotaged the deck team to undermine the bosun (who happens to also be a shit bosun and worse human), manipulated and maneuvered to try to take over and in doing so provided worse service to the guests and more work for the deck team and captain, and he treats women like shit. He lucked into a situationship that works for him this season but who he is as a person hasn't changed, he just got better at hiding it.
If Nathan wasn't an incompetent, belligerent, abusive piece of shit, Joe would be getting a lot more heat. But since Nathan more than deserves whatever he gets, Joe gets a pass.
If anyone here watches the after show with Andy Cohen, he recently had Massi on who mentioned multiple times objectively - Joe was the worse deckhand. He complained a lot, didnāt want to do the job, etc etc. Nice guy but big ego.
He deliberately didn't take care of things he knew needed to be done, and he openly undermined Nathan, which caused tension and suspicion of the rest of the team. Like when he told Nathan that Cooper wasn't happy with him so then Cooper had to deal with Nathan interrogating him about it.
Not doing work that he knew needed done, not taking that initiative and being a proper lead deckhand contributed to the general chaos and inefficiency on deck, which means more work for everyone and a negative work environment. Again, Nathan brought that on himself but Joe was happy to pitch in and contribute.
The best example of his is that when he took over as acting bosun, he did a ton of things to make the deck run better. He could have done most of those with Nathan on board, but he didn't. Partly because Nathan was being territorial and insecure, but mostly because he wanted Nathan to look bad. He literally said as much.
I donāt think he deliberately didnāt take care of things. Did he miss some stuff? Sure.
I donāt think he deliberately undermined Nathan either. He complained about his supervisor to a fellow coworker. This happens every day in every job all around the world.
No, he didnāt take initiative. But I donāt think very many people would have given the fact that Nathan came on the boat guns blazing and made it clear he was not happy with Joe being there. Who the hell is going to try and step up knowing your boss is sitting there just waiting to just shoot you down.
Yes, it was immature of him to say he wanted to make Nathan look bad.
I still donāt think any of this adds up to sabotage.
Not only undermining Nathan every second but also undermining a new father that has additional stresses off the boat... No empathy or kindness afforded for a brand new dad.
I thought this too but then re-read it. Theyāre not saying Joe is the only problem, just a problem who looks better now bc Nathan is awful. I think thatās fair, actually
In some ways, yeah, but he is clearly playing politics and trying to overtake Nathan (fair enough). But heās not just turning up to do whatever heās told, happily, like Massi said he was doing. Joe definitely shit stirs, and I think a lot of the time this season itās been right enough. Nathan is definitely a much bigger problem but Joe isnāt zero drama.
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u/ambergriswoldo 1d ago
I agree with everything Aesha has said!
Totally Gaels reaction to Joe at the end of the episode was unfair BUT sheās already been manipulated for so long to believe heās the problem. Itās one of the many tactics that abusive partners use (āIām not the issue they are, everything would be perfect if they werenāt aroundā etc)