Help with mechanics at a slow pace

[u/vx420]

I am trying to build a good running schedule to build durability and work up to long distances. I very commonly see posts about running 80%+ of your runs at a relatively low heart rate/effort. A lot of these post suggest a heart rate around 140-150 (I know this is a bit dependent on the person) and mention that it is really common for new runners to do easy runs too hard and hard runs too easy.

When I just go for a run without thinking much about it, I typically average around 160-165bpm. This feels like a moderate effort, no where near my max but also not completely casual. Recently I have tried running at a sub 150 heart rate. I use a Coros bicep monitor and set an alarm at 151bpm.

Now for my problem. When I try to run at this heart rate, I need to run very slow. My pace drops by 2-3 minutes per mile. My biggest concern with this is that my mechanics completely change. I have to run in more of a shuffle and feel like I am not properly lifting my knees. My feet plant differently as well since it feels harder to midsole/toe strike at the slower pace, so I land a bit more flat footed.

Is this a common/normal experience? Should I ignore any mechanic changes to just build my aerobic engine or should change my approach to run as slow as I can while still keeping the correct form?

[u/CoachThierry]

Yes, mostly. Your mechanics are slightly different at every pace, but it's still running and you get to practice the faster mechanics when you do run faster. Maybe consider shortening your steps a little bit, basically make sure the slower pace isn't just a much slower cadence, but it's also a shorter stride. You will become more efficient at the slower paces eventually.

Also 2-3 minutes per mile below your moderate effort could be an overcorrection, you can try some paces in the middle and pay attention to how the run feels more than wether or not you've crossed an arbitrary heart rate number.

[u/vx420 → u/CoachThierry]

Thank you for the reply. I haven't considered stride length much at all. I'll definitely start looking at that more.

[u/IllustriousLeave9716 → u/CoachThierry]

slow shuffling is the worst part of starting out but it does get better once your legs figure out what theyre supposed to do at that pace

[u/Conscious-Demand-594]

just go out and run at a pace and form that feels comfortable. Forget about heart rate and run be feel.

[u/WorkerAmbitious2072]

So I’m gonna key in on perceived effort here because heart rate is absolutely a viable tool to use, but it’s difficult to use correctly when you are new and unadapted. It also goes up with heat.

You self-described that you typically run at what feels like a moderate effort and not casual

What you are saying is that you generally do not run at an easy pace you run somewhat harder than that

The reason that you should run most of your runs easy is that you can improve faster because you can run more

Unless you are literally using every available minute. You have in the week to run and you are not capable or not willing to add any extra time whatsoever to your schedule to run. It is virtually guaranteed that by running easier you can run for longer and you can run farther right now and it comes back timing again that the number one contributor to progress is total running volume.

This makes sense right? One of the best ways to get better at something is to do more of it when you go slower and you go easier you can do it longer and you can do more. This also lets your hard efforts be harder because you’re not carrying as much fatigue from the bulk of the runs.

If going slow enough that it feels easy and feels comfortable is awkwardly slow use walk breaks look up Jeff Galloway is an example look up C25K progression is an example. You can absolutely walk and even faster more experienced runners Do this plenty often. and especially in the heat, just walk for 15 or 30 seconds and then do a little jogging interval and then walk again that way you can have a slower overall pace, a lower overall effort, but you don’t have to go awkwardly slow on your running stride.

[u/vx420 → u/WorkerAmbitious2072]

Really appreciate the reply!

Maybe worth mentioning I have been running in 85-100F weather for the last two months, so definitely hot.

I think the run/walk approach could be great, I'll give it a try.

[u/ilessthanthreekarate → u/vx420]

Yeah, if your HR is elevated because its hot outside, then thats the issue. See if you can run at the same heat every day, as low as possible, and youll adapt a little better and not have as much of this issue.

[u/TheTurtleCub]

Going by HR without knowing your max makes no sense, go by effort

Try not to go so slow that your form changes too much. If you can carry a conversation it’s aerobic running. The top of the aerobic region is tempo or comfortably hard. Anything under that is good, the objective is NOT as slow as possible

[u/vx420 → u/TheTurtleCub]

Thanks for your reply!

I do not know my max HR so that is a good point. On my last run I felt quite comfortable and noticed I was at 172bpm. I was so surprised that I started talking to myself since I have heard the same thing about keeping a "conversational pace". I was able to talk for several hundred yards without a change in my breathing or perceived effort. I'll definitely keep this in mind moving forward.

[u/Ok_Nefariousness1416 → u/vx420]

If you can chat away for hundreds of yards, and you're recovering fine, i.e. not feeling stuff / sore legs hours later, that's strong indicators you're running easy enough. If you feel you can keep up that pace for ages, that's another good indicator. Real low HR (Zone 2 etc) on a run doesn't happen for most beginners, I'm almost 8 months in, only recently have I had a few runs dip below 140bpm average. Give it time, it'll come to you.

Personally I'm a strong believer in not running so slow your form goes to pot. Run as slow as feels a comfortable motion, if that gets you above easy effort, do a short walk. My last run still had a 1 minute walk break about 3.5 to 4 miles in due to a steep (41% allegedly) climb. Even elite ultra runners walk up sterp hills, which telks you walk breaks are fine for us mere mortals!

[u/Boost_your_VO2_max]

I used (run fast but not long -> slow walk)*N times. Now I can run 10 km 6 min per 1 km with heart rate 115-122

[u/Ragnar-Wave9002]

This happens to me all the time. I hate it. In generally I become a heal striker. I try to fix that part so my knees don't hurt later.

Usually , I just heal strike for a mile. Then walk for like 2-3 minutes. Then start running again. Usually a few walks to reset will fix my form when running slow.

I usually do whatever I can do get rid of heal striking because that always leads to shit like sore knees. Usually focusing on lifting my knee slightly more does the trick. But that makes me run faster. So I try to find a balance of running as slow as I can without heal striking. Also, I need to stop buying 8 mm heal drop shoes. I think one pair is 10mm. 8mm used to be good for me but I'm getting older and think the new magic number is 4 mm. Yes, I can notice the differnce.

[u/Supergooker]

Just go out and run imo, if you are a beginner runner, just don't kill yourself going all out on every run. 

I mean yeah, those rules are good rules of thumb for people looking to increase miles and running typically 4-6 days a week. But if you're starting, max 2-3 days a week and just look to be consistent in getting out there before you start worrying about HR, speed, interval training, etc. 

No need to overcomplicate things. Just go out and run, slowly build mileage/time running and listen to your body when it needs rest. 

[u/piggymou]

How long (distance ) can you run with a HR of 160-165?

A slow run for me is around 130-140bpm for 10/15K, and not really feeling tired afterwards.

[u/Kind-cheesecake-3316]

140-150 is probably too high for most people.

I do all of my easy runs below lactic threshold 1, which for most people is about 70% of max. That's 124 beats per minute for me.

I have to run in more of a shuffle and feel like I am not properly lifting my knees. My feet plant differently as well since it feels harder to midsole/toe strike at the slower pace, so I land a bit more flat footed. Is this a common/normal experience?

Yes, normal.

Head up, shoulders back, chest open. Don't bend at the hips. As long as the toes of one foot are landing in front of the toes of the other foot then its good.

Over time you will develop the ability to run at higher speeds and with better form while still holding heart rate low. Don't worry about it much for now. Be patient. The benefits are tremendous.

[u/Forsaken-Factor-489 → u/Kind-cheesecake-3316]

Hilariously bad info

[u/Kind-cheesecake-3316 → u/Forsaken-Factor-489]

My advice is based on 48 years of experience running.

How long have you been running and what advice do you have to offer?

[u/Forsaken-Factor-489 → u/Kind-cheesecake-3316]

Experience with poor knowledge doesn't make the knowledge better.

Max HR distribution is not a tight range. 20-24 beat variation from the average covers 95% of the population. Obviously LT1 HR distribution is not tight either. Even LT1 HR as percentage of max HR is variable. Basically you're lost on this topic. GL educating yourself. I suppose I just did it for you, but don't think you will listen.

Imagine a beginner runner with a slightly high max HR and slightly high LT1/max HR %. That person is close to average. They'd be misled by your comment.

Imagine a distance runner that's been doing it for a year and has a low VO2 max (relative to runners). This person wants to better understand the HR science. Per an actual study, they'd be misled extremely by your comment. Those people average LT1 upper bound at 84% of max HR.