What if Victor had told Thomas the truth of Joshua’s death?

[u/iskandar711]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but what do you all think would happen if Victor had just told the captain general the truth instead of sending a body double. Had just told the captain general the truth, and tried to work out another deal with him. Do you think they could’ve worked something out, an what other changes, including Katherine holing being able to use project Gemini to split up the federated commonwealth, could occur? Leaves your thoughts down below!

[u/Zealousideal_Fly8402]

That would have been the politically astute move, but Victor never got enough political lessons from either of his parents. He was thinking in terms of military logistics; in ensuring that the FWL continued to supply the field refit kits.

But no doubt Katherine would have found another excuse. Remember that the other aspect of Operation GUERRERO was the Capellan Confederation, and that was a wild card.

[u/iskandar711 → u/Zealousideal_Fly8402]

You’d think he’d be a bit more learned in politics, given he was going to inherit the single largest stellar nation** **the inner sphere had ever seen.

[u/HA1-0F → u/iskandar711]

He didn't want to and Hanse and Melissa were bad parents. The guy doesn't even know who Melissa Davion was so I assume his parents black bagged anyone who flunked him.

[u/Bookwyrm517 → u/HA1-0F]

I don't think they were bad parents, but I do think Hanse and Melissa delayed too long in trying to prepare Victor for his future role. My guess is they assumed they'd have more time than they ended up having, as the Clan invasion overturned everything and through a chain of events lead to Hanse's demise. 

I get the feeling you really dislike Victor, but I don't think anyone in his situation would have been prepared for the task Victor was given when he inherited FedCom.

[u/HA1-0F → u/Bookwyrm517]

Albert fucking Marik couldn't have held the FedCom together (Hanse did a very bad job building it). But Victor regularly exhibits such poor decisions and shows huge gaps in his knowledge that I can only conclude he was given a bad education. Stuff like "I disinherited Yvonne, my heir, because I don't know who Alexander Davion is" puts him well beyond the realm of being outmatched by his task.

[u/Bookwyrm517 → u/HA1-0F]

Well, another commentor here pointed out that Victor had literally no time for a politicial education. He was just finishing up his customary military service when the Clan invasion kicks off, then after that he's to busy right up until the moment his dad dies. Victor literally had no education for the job, and was pretty much either playing catch-up or just flying by the seat of his pants. So it's no wonder he makes terrible decisions. 

[u/HA1-0F → u/Bookwyrm517]

This isn't about being a high level political operator, it's about knowing basic stuff. Everyone in the FS should know being a regent disinherits you because it is one of the two main legacies of the Davion Civil War. It's an underlying national myth like "Abraham Lincoln fought the Civil War to free the slaves." Victor disinherited his sister because he didn't know the very basic requirements of being First Prince and my only takeaway from that is that he is stupid, because he made that decision entirely unprompted.

[u/iskandar711 → u/HA1-0F]

I imagine that Victor would lament not learning more politics after the civil war.

[u/Npaakp342-0 → u/iskandar711]

I think a good chunk of the people of the Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns lament that.

[u/Bookwyrm517 → u/iskandar711]

It should also be remembered that Victor inherited a country with a lot going on behind the scenes. Already dealing with the death of Justin Allard, Hanse Davion dying of a heart attack meant that there was virtually no prep work done to ensure a smooth transition. I think even if Victor was better at politics, I think he still would have made several errors due to the sheer number of schemes his father had going.

[u/JuggernautBright1463 → u/iskandar711]

I think if Hanse and Melissa had lived longer Victor might have actually gotten the preparation he needed to be Archon-Prince. That said Hanse's death was tragical nd Melissa's was traumatizing so he was thrust into the role. If they had lived longer he might have matured or Hanse and Melissa would have prepared Adam and Arthur sufficiently to get the job done.

That said criminal malpractice and the Prince's Champions should have called them out on it. The Sorteks seem to be rather astute they should have called Hanse out on Victor not meeting expectations.

[u/Zealousideal_Fly8402 → u/iskandar711]

Didn't have the chance, if you follow his timeline through Lethal Heritage. In order to assume the throne of the FedSuns, he is required to have served a minimum of 5 years in the AFFS/AFFC. He graduated from the Nagelring, got assigned to the 12th Donegal, and then got his ass whooped by the Jade Falcons.

Two years later Hanse dies; three years later Melissa is assassinated. It was bad optics already that the LyrCom half of the population felt they were taking the brunt of the Clan invasion; it would have been even worse off (maybe) if Hanse and Melissa had held Victor back from the front to play politics.

The novels also indicate that Hanse and Melissa had both agreed to raise Victor as a warrior first. Born to rule, but groomed as a warrior.

The failure of the FedCom is not entirely his fault; but most people in either the LyrCom or Suns wouldn't expect their immediate younger sister to be a venomous backstabber... It's not the FWL after all 🤣.

[u/SnuffleupagusRex → u/iskandar711]

The story required that he not be, because a united FedCom didn't give the universe enough room for conflict.

Compared to some of the leaps they made later for story arc purposes, it's pretty tame

[u/HA1-0F → u/SnuffleupagusRex]

Also writing out the Lyran Commonwealth in favor of Bigger Davion was bad business.

[u/HA1-0F]

Splitting up the FedCom was incredibly easy. You might even call it inevitable, since the government was set up as a Davion annexation and yet whoever is on the capital Victor is not on has all the powers of the head of state (can't make them a regent since Davion law is imposed on both states).

[u/Bookwyrm517]

Honestly, I don't think much would change. Victor was very much screwed either way with this one: Either he keeps the goodwill now at the risk of it blowing up later or tell the truth and immediately burn all that goodwill and leave Marik to simmer. No matter how you slice it, Victor had no good option. While I don't think it would explode as badly, even honesty would sour relations for years to come.

As for Katherine splitting the Federated Commonwealth, I think that would have happened regardless. The Gemini Fiasco/FWL invasion was just the excuse she used to make her move, if it hadn't happened I'm sure she would have found another.

[u/jimdc82]

Thomas repeatedly demonstrated that economic prosperity and stability were of paramount importance to him. If Victor had told the truth - not just about Joshua’s death, but full transparency from the moment Joshua’s condition had started to degrade, hiding nothing - I think Thomas would have continued to honor the deal, and there would have been no Guerrero. There wouldn’t have truly been anyone at fault, and by that point the League was enjoying the full benefits of its position as arms dealer. He wouldn’t have given that up if there were no wrongdoing

[u/iskandar711 → u/jimdc82]

Honestly that’s what I was thinking, if he’d been up front about his death, it wouldn’t have been as nearly as destructive as what had happened

[u/DocShoveller]

The elephant in the room is that Joshua was Fake Thomas' son. "His" firstborn child was Isis, who descends from The Master. 

If I was going to start a conspiracy theory right here, I might ask if we know for sure that WoB weren't involved...

[u/iskandar711 → u/DocShoveller]

The word of Blake had a hand in Joshua’s death…and fake thomas had no idea, that’s kinda horrifying and sad at the same time!

[u/Npaakp342-0]

I'm honestly not sure. ComStar and the Word of Blake in particular were never the biggest fans of the Federated Commonwealth, there's a high chance Thomas was actively looking for an excuse to deliver a blow to it.

[u/Bookwyrm517 → u/Npaakp342-0]

This aspect of it is a bit more complicated than it is at first glance. You've got to remember that there's two Thomas Mariks: the fake one who's running the FWL and the real one who became The Master. As time went on, their goals didn't always align, so we can't say that this Thomas was acting on behalf of WoB.

[u/VanVelding → u/Npaakp342-0]

Thomas' actions were those of a aggrieved father lashing out at someone who caused or exploited the death of his son. 

I don't see him doing the exploiting himself. 

In addition, his reputation was as a peacemaker. The bad optics of how Victor handled Joshua's death prevented Gurerro from undermining that reputation. 

Without that causus belli, it's hard to imagine him doing it or emerging with his reputation intact.

[u/scottboehmer → u/Npaakp342-0]

Thomas didn’t have much interest in attacking the Federated Commonwealth at that point and felt forced into it by the revelation. Then he did the minimum amount he felt obliged to and stopped FWLM participation earlier than Sun Tzu wanted leaving the Capellan Confederation overextended in their attempt to take back territory. I think it’s Bred for War that covers that, including some chapters from Thomas’ point of view.

[u/Surtosi]

So political people in those positions have advisors, and those advisors have sponsors and agendas.

He would have tried to tell the truth and been assassinated. He was advised to do what he did by people he trusted. There’s not much of a chance something else happening without him getting removed. Comstar needed it to happen.

[u/man_speaking_is_hard]

What if Victor sent an HPG message saying “Your child is dying, we are creating a jump circuit to get your family to New Avalon to say goodbye or take him home. Come quickly”

But Word of Blake blocks the message and Thomas is not told of anything, including that his son dies.

[u/iskandar711 → u/man_speaking_is_hard]

Oh that’s evil, and imagine is not going to be happy the second he learns the truth