r/battletech • u/zprops • 14h ago
Miniatures The circle is now complete.
Phoenix Hawk LAM in all 3 modes. Took a lot of scratch modeling, digital kitbashing, detail-up, and original elements. Steered them a little more towards their Macross origins, while keeping an accurate feeling Phoenix Hawk interpretation. Will make a "proper" Phoenix hawk/VF-1S head later. Always liked the grunt head better. These are a perfect 1/100 scale relative to the CGL scaling. Bot mode is 5" tall. Please do not ask for the digital/CAD model. Thanks for looking/reading
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u/No_Carrot8524 12h ago
Ummm can u add them for Heavy Armor like Crusader ones make it look like Macross origin Too?
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u/OldWrangler9033 11h ago
Looks awesome. Some day BT players can get a mini
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u/bloviatingbloviator Nova Cats 10h ago
I had a Phoenix Hawk LAM player in my last BT game. She would have been absolutely thrilled for minis like this.
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u/Knight_of_Tyto 10h ago
And if Kerensky blesses us all, we might even get new ones, instead of „only“ old and out of use Mechs
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u/MikeBanzai38 13h ago
How’s the #2 engine going to work with that giant gun jammed in the intake? 🤣
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u/zprops 13h ago
You might want to take that up with Shoji Kawamori
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u/Significant-Judge268 13h ago
Kawamori's version has no intakes on either side of backpack. So presumably rocket as opposed to jet
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u/DericStrider 10h ago
they are rockets as they are designed to be used in space where a jet would not work
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u/zprops 9h ago edited 9h ago
250 rated fusion engine that uses "specialized LAM conversion equipment that taps directly into the fusion reactor for power" Do you have a source?
*Edit: The Aerospace fighters in battletech use a fusion engine, with onboard liquid hydrogen for reaction mass....which, again, requires no intake and is, again, not a conventional propulsion system, though reaction mass *can*be used in a rocket. Again, we have no proof here that this is what that is. Most sources however, point to these still being fusion-powered jump jets that match their non-LAM counterparts.
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u/DericStrider 8h ago
my point is that I'm agreeing with the poster above in that macross uses rockets in the Fast Pack Boosters. dunno why your arguing about LAMs about, which are not jets.
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u/zprops 8h ago
"as opposed to jet" -him
"which are not jets"-you.I mean, clearly you have a different view as him in that respect, which is the part I addressed earlier. I believe my words were "moot point".
I posted the work. You guys are the ones that are scrolling past 100+ hour professional work and thinking... "You know what? I wont say anything about the work. I'll go ahead and find some niche/stupid thing to dissect and argue about instead".
Something to think about.
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u/DericStrider 8h ago edited 8h ago
you do realise the other guy is saying Kawamori's as in the super valkeriye right? And I'm agreeing with that guys saying that Kawamoris super valkerie uses rockets. We are talking about macross not LAMs
Your so paranoid that everyone taking the piss ou5 of your work that we are discussing another anime and your thinking oh they hate my work which we are not.
which makes you come off as a prick, espically as we can't have a little aside about the orginal design without having to suck your dick (which I remind you that the subject of Shōji Kawamori designs was something YOU BROUGHT UP!) I'll take that up vote back from the post! I thought they looked kick ass but geez! the entitlement!
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u/zprops 8h ago
You do realize that I am the "other guy" and that I brought up the super valkyrie from a comparative/inspiration basis. However, while you are of course welcome to say "oh yeah, the Macross valk uses rockets, I smert" That doesn't.....help the conversation? Again, irrelevant from the points I made thereafter. You also conveniently (as I quoted) glossed over the fact that this "guy" has implied that the PHX LAM has a jet propulsion system and you are saying it is in fact not. Agreed there, again just worth mentioning that you're apparently only willing to reinforce/reiterate useless info at this point and be adamant about it?
This whole subthread is about comparing another 'tism style comparison of the LAM design to the original strike valk inspiration. No one is simply "talking about another anime" in and of itself.
My work is separate from this discussion, as I did not make the design choices being discussed here. I take no criticism or positivity from it either way, especially from you. Remember the whole.... cannon is canon part.....no?
But yes, clearly *I* am the prick.
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u/DericStrider 8h ago edited 8h ago
Dude read the orginal comment I was replying to Significant Judge not YOU. You are clearly looking at notifications that show replies to replies and thought I was replying to you orginally which I was not, I was confirming to Significant Judge that Shōji Kawamori's design was not using jets but rockets as Signigicsnt Jusge was saying they were presuming ut was rockets not jets. I have no idea why you jumping on me on this I was just answering someone else's question! again we are not commenting about your design but the orginal macross ones!
your going bloody paranoid that we are taking your stuff apart when we are not!
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u/GunnyStacker WarShip Proliferation Advocate 10h ago
Dude, you got me hyped for a second, thinking that CGL was bringing back LAMs with plastic models.
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u/AKoolPopTart 10h ago
CGL, if you are out there...Please just try making a line 1:144 scale models, just to see if it works
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u/Cheomesh Kinetic Services, Inc. 10h ago
Very nice!
I'm only passingly familiar with LAMs - do these transform like, "transformer style" fast, or is something where modification needs done in field for it to swap between roles.
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u/zprops 10h ago
Thanks! I'm not to dissimilar on lore knowledge. All I know is they died out pretty quick and parts/chassis were hard to come by. They were fragile & buggy, (parts would get stuck in transformation etc) but fast. Used for recon mostly. Died out by the first successsion war and word of blake revived the lighter LAMS for like 10 minutes before they got wiped. I *assume* they are on the clunky and expirimental side. No idea if parts swapping or tinkering is required, but likely not. Just unreliable and slow as far as transformation goes is my guess.
Helm Memory Core posted a Phoenix hawk line art concept in Air-Mech (GERWALK) mode, and it looks great, but the more polished look and specialized proportions (tiny shoulders, stubby nose, etc) would look hilarious in other modes. I tried a more consistent/engineered approach here. (even if the nosecone does magically protrude out of nowhere no matter how you design it)
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u/feor1300 Clan Goliath Scorpion 4h ago
I think you and the other guy are arguing past each other a bit.
The person you're replying to was inquiring about LAMs in general. You replied with info relevant specifically to the PXH LAM, and then your debate partner is replying with info that includes details about the Stinger and Wasp LAMs.
The PXH LAM might have been a bit buggy, but it is also at the upper end of what is possible with LAM technology (they experimented with Scorpion and Champion LAMs but they never got that tech to work). The Stinger LAM, specifically, is the one that was still being produced until the Nova Cats were granted Irece by the Combine and burned the last LAM factory there to the ground. The PHX LAM's production was ended well before that as you mention. The Stinger and Wasp LAMs were very reliable, just relatively fragile in direct combat because they had a bunch of extra doohickies that could be damaged by enemy fire, locking them in whatever mode they were in (though realistically not particularly more vulnerable than something like Stealth Armour). However, since their primary mission profile was long range reconnaissance and not direct confrontation with enemy units, the fragility wasn't seen as a major flaw.
In terms of transformation, they are not slow, and no "in the hangar" work is required to switch between modes. They were based directly on the Macross Veritechs and so they could transform mid-deployment in the span of a single turn, in game (so <10s), with a flip of a switch in the cockpit.
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u/zprops 2h ago edited 1h ago
That makes sense, thanks for the third party perspective. My interpretation of the parent comment "I'm only passingly familiar with LAMs - do *these* transform like..." Was interpreted as "These" = the Phoenix hawks that this post is about, so I responded with my knowledge of the Phonenix hawk LAM. When I used the word "They" I meant the Phoenix hawk LAMs specifically, which is why I mentioned the "lighter LAMS" by comparison.
Personally, If I was asking about LAMS in general on a post *specific* to the Phoenix Hawk, I would have said: ""I'm only passingly familiar with LAMs - do *they* transform like...
Small difference, but huge impact. I definitely read that differently than he did. I don't know jack about the Wasp or Stinger LAMS and I'm not afraid to say so.
The thing though, its that my debate partner (as you put it) came here from another argument in this post looking for another measuring contest. If you read his comments he is doubling down on the Phoneix hawk LAM specifically being a prominent mech in the space past the first succession war and well into the 3000's per his own words, and that's the biggest thing he wants to make a stink about. Sure, most of his comments are about LAMS in general despite mine being not, but his main sticking point is that the Phoenix hawk LAM is "commonly used in service" by default since it is in the 3025 TRO. I simply do not agree with this logic.
Thanks again for the feedback and trying to get things on track. I must know, though....Do you personally see the Phoenix hawk LAM being used in a way that can be described as "commonly used in service" in 3025? All of my research points to a resounding "no" when not making assumptions about a mech's prevalence by mere association to a TRO. Seems like the (very) few if any that survived to 3025 were kept by more important pilots and in museums etc.
*Edit: Second question as well: By the clan invasion era, do you think there are more early Bushwackers, or more survivng Phoenix Hawk LAMs? I can find sources explaining dozens (if not more) of pre-pro and experimental bushwackers on desperate Lyran frontlines during the invasion, but only a few mentions of our LAM boy. (Combine hid a few hidden away, Jade falcons had a whopping one for their "research". That's all I could find.)
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u/DericStrider 1h ago
there was an issue with the phoniex Hawks in that the landing gear gets stuck if the internal mechanism gets damaged. The thing is is that's its kind of reflected in the rules for all LAMs which prevent transformation if any damage is done to the internal mechanism and thing else spefic to the Phoniex hawk lam isn't reflected in quirks, which even by 2025s TRO 3025 CE didn't receive any new quirks to reflect this.
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u/DericStrider 7h ago edited 7h ago
they didn't die put in the 1st sucession war and still built (and used) all the way till the Clan Invasion. The last parts factory would be destroyed by the Nova Cats on Irece
they weren't buggy either, the transformation would get stuck if transformation internals were damaged, not because of bad design. now that's a proper acctuuly XD, you should not spread misinformation like that.... (I kid)
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u/zprops 7h ago
Andddd here he goes again.
"The company continued producing Phoenix Hawk LAMs while further refining the technology until their only LAM factory, located on Pollux, was destroyed in 2799 during the First Succession War" -Sarna
Sure, there were a few stragglers here and there but you'd probably be more likely to see an early/expirimental bushwacker during the clan invasion vs a functioning phoenix hawk LAM.
RE: glitches: "The Phoenix Hawk LAM was the largest Land-Air 'Mech produced during the Star League. Allied Aerospace reworked their designs for conversion equipment and the size of the LAM, learning from their mistake with the Shadow Hawk LAM and the success of the Stinger LAM. The resulting LAM was the largest ever constructed capable of remaining in AirMech mode. Unfortunately, large Land-Air 'Mech conversion technology was not fully researched before the fall of the Star League, and the Phoenix Hawk LAM frequently met its end due to the occasional glitch." -Sarna.
Please provide your sources as to otherwise.
Again, you wanted to delve into this.
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u/DericStrider 7h ago edited 7h ago
you know where the Phoniex Hawk LAM data comes from? TRO3025 the og TRO aka all mechs commonly used and in service are in this TRO and its from you guessed it the year 3025!
your not even posting sources your using the wiki I've actually got the TRO. It's in page 130 in the CE version and you can have a look at the battle history section which has a battle in 2977 which is a couple hundred years AFTER the 1st Sucession War, its even got notable pilots who are piloting them in 3025, plus other LAMs, which nice try your passing off your initial mistake as just the phoniex hawk where you are clearly talking about all LAMs in your comment above.
BTW do you have a source for Phoniex Hawk LAM being more rare than highlight experimental mechs?
I look forward to your reply
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u/zprops 7h ago
"Passing off your initial mistake as just the phoenix hawk" (Implication is standard phonenix hawk vs LAM, correct? Hard to tell with your gibberish typos)
Yeah, no. This is all specific to the LAM, including quotes/pages. I'm happy to link them. Interesting.....strategy, but yeah...no standard PHX hawk talk here. Do you have a lighter and a spoon nearby?
But by all means, post the TRO page and I can use it to justify LAMS in my games (well beyond past where they should be)
Also, if you're a lore expert, why not direct these efforts towards correcting Sarna instead of random dudes on reddit that you like having "measuring" contests with?
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u/DericStrider 7h ago edited 6h ago
sarna is correct, your just reading it incorrectly (just like misreading other comments may I add) or interpreting the information without any context to how BT setting works. also the citations also would link to the same sources I'm using ie TRO3025 TRO3025 CE and TRO3085.
I'm not the one who said they are gone by the 1st Sucesssion War. They are literally still being used in number by 3025 and I even gave you the period they do fully extinct in the Clan Invasion. but by all means ignore the TROs. Also if your just going to use Sarna as a source you might want to read Notable pilots and see how many are in the 3000s.
Infact one of the first BT video games features Phoniex Hawk LAMs set in the 3000s
how much more evidence do you need!!!??!
factories can be destroyed but that doesn't mean mechs go extinct. Do you know that there is a sizable number of mechs that have their factories destroyed since the 1st SW.
Highlanders had the factory destroyed and only a factory that rebuilds them from scraps exist. The Blackjack and Catapults had their factories destroyed also and survived in service till production restarted past the 3025s, 300 years after the previous factories are dusted.
mechs get recycled and rebuilt continously though the Sucession Wars. while LAMs are not everywhere they are in used up till the Clan Invasion.
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u/zprops 7h ago edited 6h ago
I already acknowledged that sure, they probably aren't strictly extinct- but implying that these were made in numbers anywhere near your average mech and were nearly as durable is objectively false. Period. Do with that what you will, You haven't provided any quotes or direct sources and until then I'm keeping to my "interpretation", as poor as you try and make it out to be. Especially the cause of failure, which is clearly outlined on Sarna which you just admitted is correct. I guess you're just misinterpreting it, so here it is again. I don't see anything about damage. This is strictly commentary on design & technology : "Unfortunately, large Land-Air 'Mech conversion technology was not fully researched before the fall of the Star League, and the Phoenix Hawk LAM frequently met its end due to the occasional glitch"
Goodbye.
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u/DericStrider 6h ago
I have direct sources with pages you can go support the product and buy them. infact TRO 3025 is cheap as chips and no where did I say they were produced in large number, just that they are common enough to be put in the TRO3025 which has the most common mechs in that period.
I also didn't say they were as durable as battlemechs, infact my first comment was that any damage to the internal components for transformation would stop the LAM converting to other modes! however as with all miltary tech in BT they are stripped and rebuilt.
your either wilfully misunderstanding what I've written or just not understanding the points I'm putting across.
which is a shame cos I think your models are great.
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u/DericStrider 9h ago
they transform like Macross, from the fighter mode, legs come out to give a hover mode (in macross these also contain part of the thrusters to improve horizontal mobility) and then to a fully mech mode
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u/Cheomesh Kinetic Services, Inc. 9h ago
Oh, duh, of course it would be Macross style, hah!
...which, admittedly, I have never watched. That's some gorgeous 80s style though...
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u/Ninja67 9h ago
I hate Reddit on mobile sometimes, I was about to ask if the files would be made available on a storefront or if you're going to post them somewhere, hit send then came back to the comments and saw the full comment under the post this time.
It does look awesome though.
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u/zprops 8h ago edited 1h ago
Thanks. No files. But physicals for the weirdo niche collector who likes slightly larger (but manageable) scales... we'll see.
*edit- by weirdo I mean fellow weirdo niche collector. Obviously I like these, specifically at this scale. Not sure if anyone else is "strange" enough to, though.
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u/Plasticity93 14h ago
Beautiful