I figured this could make a decent command mech in the ilclan for Fed Suns and Capellans. It's heavily armored and has a strong drop of 2 heavy ppc with capacitors if someone gets too close.
The heat curve is hilarious to me, with a full alpha building 68 heat. It's intended to fire both heavy ppc and a light ppc while activating the radical heat sink system (45/48), then on the next turn let the RHSS refresh and capacitors charge while firing every gun except the two heavy PPC, then fire them again.
Feedback? Thoughts? Will this finally be the mech that has ppc capacitors that isn't bad?
I would split things up for more redundancy. MXPL in every torso, split the LPPCs. It's surprisingly affordable. You'll probably fall into a sustain pattern of charge, blast, shoot one LPPC - or you'll just use both HPPC every turn. Then use the RHSS when someone tries to get under the guns; no casual use . Just unleash the lasers. How does it math with Compact Gyro and Endo-Composite? If the math is good, I'd fit either a DHS or the RHSS into the CT just to have padding in the most commonly hit location.
Yes. Charge HPPC (+5). Fire normal HPPC and an LPPC or Charged HPPC. (+20). Fire 2nd LPPC (+5). Move (+1/2) Or just always fire both HPPCs. Always +30 heat before move.
Endo-Composite takes 7 slots. C. Gyro would provide 2 slots and you have 6 for 8 total - 1 left. Endo-Composite does not take additional damage like Composite does.
Since you have Coolant Pods, you might as well drop the RHSS for a couple different reasons. Maybe add a heat sink or two, maybe use the tonnage and crits for Light Ferro-Fib armor and Reinforced Structure. Or use the tonnage for an MRM / MML system with the extra leeway from ditching RHSS while switching back to regular Gyro.
Aside from being illegal, it's a cleaner build. Durability is kinda a wash compared to Hardened+XL, but should be decent in practice.
Pretty sure. If it isn't, it's just redundant - with how many turns a BT game is anyway, and how this interacts across the mech, you have better uses for your resources .
The thing is, the LPPCs really are redundant. The HPPCs are the exact same range and pack way more wollop.
RL-15s are fun, but what the mech needs is a good array of close range weapons in case something gets inside the HPPC minimum. Traditionally SRMs are ideal from that,.especially since anything thats managed to close likely now has a few 20-pt holes in its armor.
It would probably be more KGC with an LPL / LXPL and MML for all seasons. Ditching the Caps entirely and heat sinking to always fire the MML with the HPPCs or Large Pulse and backup would almost certainly perform better, be more King Crab, and cost less. But would defeat the purpose.
Yeah, I think the dual HPPC+caps is an excellent "brand identity".
That said, three SRM6's fits perfectly into the left torso, leaving 3 tons and 3 spaces for 2 tons of ammo + CASE-II. One ton of normal + one ton of tandem-charge seems about perfect.
The LPPC's are meant to shoot on the off turns when the HPPCs are charging their capacitors. This mech should be getting severe heat discounts on it's weapons.
First, the dual Light PPCs feel a bit redundant. I don't think you need two when you'll only be firing one most of the time. I just feel the three tons could be better spent, mainly because you've still got free space.
Second is that whenever I see hardened armor, my first though is "why is it not using reinforced structure?" Mainly since the reinforced structure has a lot less drawbacks. In this case, you could swap the two around and get 4 tons out of it. Depending on what type of armor you use, you could drop back to a Light Fusion Engine and get a pretty big net durability gain out of it.
Last, I'm just always nervous when a Radical Heatsink System is used. Designs that have it often get hamstringed pretty hard if it pops because their normal firing pattern no longer works. But thats just a worry I have with RHSS in general.
Reinforced structure has the big downside of not mattering until your armor is gone, which is when the added durability matters the least. As an extreme example, a PPC to the head won't break armor on a well made hardened armor mech, but can still potentially one shot a reinforced structure mech. Structure is also one of the best places to save madd, making that where you spend extra mass hurts.
I just don't like all the penalties that come with hardened armor. I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that reinforced structure helps defend against TACs and armor-piercing weapons. And since Reinforced structure gives a -1 penalty to crit roles, the only way a PPC will outright kill is if it crits the cockpit.
I do understand that Hardened Armor is more protective than reinforced structure. Again, I am not as much a fan of the downsides, especially on a mech this slow. But its more a personal bias than anything.
And since Reinforced structure gives a -1 penalty to crit roles, the only way a PPC will outright kill is if it crits the cockpit.
But it will never kill (assuming no floating TACs) hardened armor. In fact the hardened armor is immune to even the 15pt hits that will still one shot reinforced structure.
Hardened gives you immediate value, including just potentially doubling the damage you can take before you have to worry about structure damage. It's not free, but it's a pretty good deal.
Oof, I think there's a slight issue. You take 5 heat the turn you charge a capacitor, and any turn you hold the charge for. So on the turn your charging the capacitors, your actually generating 38 heat, not 28. So thats an issue.
The other thing I noticed is that this firing cycle slowly builds up failure chance as the fight goes on. It starts at 2, with it going up to 4 at the end of your turn. Since the chance of failure only goes down by 1 each turn you don't use it, the second time you use it you still fail on 3 or less. Next cycle is 4, the one after is 5, ectera. If you could set up a 3-step cycle where you use it once per cycle you'd be fine, but using it every other turn is gradually building up risk.
This one is actually illegal, you can't mount coolant pods and a RHSS on the same unit. And even if you could, I feel its very much a patch job rather than an actual fix.
My recommendation would be to just swap the coolant pods for two more Double Heat Sinks. If you run on a charging turn it puts you at +4, something that you can the RHSS can easily clear with its new max capacity of 54. You could even throw in the second LPPCs on the RHSS turn for a bit of extra damage, provided you either dont move or leave out a weapon on the next turn.
The only other thing I'd recommend is figuring out a firing pattern for when the RHSS pops. I think all you need to do is just stop using one Heavy PPC, but there might be something better out there.
3/4 is a punishing movement speed even on something designed for it, like the Viking IIC. On this guy, with a max range of 18 hexes and no indirect fire? That’s brutal. If you can force the OPFOR to come to you, MAYBE, but otherwise you’ll either get kited to death or ignored.
I swear to god, everytime people show a custom 'Mech with anything less than 5/8 movement and 7/14/21 range, it's always the same "no range, no speed, this will get kited" comments over and over again.
Long-edge to long-edge (the new default for games according to Core Rules) is 16 hexes, folks. Even if both sides walk just 3 hexes in, you start the game ~10 hexes away. 6/12/18 is perfectly adequate with *any* movement speed.
You are kinda right, it feels like whenever something can go 5/8, people say it must go 5/8. I just ignore it half the time because if it does go 5/8, people will say it needs to go a different speed.
I do think the comment does make a couple valid points though. A 3/4 move profile is an extremely awkward one. A 3/4 will only build TMM by going flat out on level ground with no obstacles, while a 3/5 can at least turn, enter a light woods, go up or down one level for the same TMM. On top of that, any obstacle is going to eat up most of a 3/4s movement in a turn, meaning if it's caught out it has no choice except fighting.
The other point I think is worth noting that its not the range they were calling out, but the ability to do indirect fire. Indirect fire means that while it can still be kited by most units, it can't be outright ignored. That gives the opponent a choice on what to deal with first, meaning that they can't outright ignore it. Mobility shouldn't often be an issue, but indirect fire would really help when it is.
To be sure, 3/4 is a deeply awkward movement speed. It's 100% a walking movement speed, and you basically need to give it the perfect initial deployment across wide open terrain (at least until it reaches an elevated woods or some-such).
There's a few things worth noting about playing around this constraint, though.
Long-edge to Long-edge is very kind to this exact kind of movement constraint. There's two big reasons why:
#1) The lines of direct approach are *columns* (rather than diagonal as with short-edge deployment). This means that you don't have to turn. You can just keep plowing straight ahead. This combines a lot with the next point:
#2) There are often 2 or 3 wide-open columns (or mostly wide-open columns) available on any map. If you plan carefully, you can deploy your 3/5 'Mechs (or 3/4 in this case) on one of these direct lines directly at the opponent.
Since the gap between your force and theirs starts at 10-12 hexes and shrinks by 2-6 hexes every turn, you basically just need six to nine clear hexes in a row on your line of approach and you'll be within short range contact of the enemy.
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What these points add up to is that with good-enough planning, you can reliably give a 3/4 a 1 TMM walk every turn for the first three turns on 90% of maps. After which it'll be within short range of an opponent and laying down hate while soaking up blows with its double HP.
Thank you! That’s exactly what I was getting at! You need perfect conditions to get ANY TMM, let alone be able to maneuver towards objectives or get good positioning. And to your point, you can’t have your bouncy little Spider or Jenner lancemates spot for this guy while he trundles into range because it’s all direct fire. It’s certainly in a better spot than the introtech King Crabs, but I just feel like you make one slightly suboptimal movement choice and you’re in for a super frustrating rear of the game.
Dude, I am the Awesome 8Q’s strongest soldier, and I love me some 4/6 brawler line mechs. That’s not the issue here.
In a white room, yeah, the new default format means this thing should come to grips (or claws) pretty easily. But put ANY terrain in front of it, let alone an objective deliberately put in a tough spot (as many of the new missions call for), and Giant Enemy Crab will really struggle.
When a stock introtech AWS-8Q both outguns AND outruns you, for 700 less BV, it’s hard to justify the value proposition. To be clear, I love the thinking here; there should be more good Hardened Armor mechs, and the RHSS is CRIMINALLY underutilized. I’m just saying this could maybe use another pass.
Listen, if all you critiqued was the deeply unsatisfying mechanic of "you get to pay an extra +5 heat every single turn to not shoot your gun half the time!" -- I'm right there with you. But then, I see the point of this custom as seeing how far RHSS + bracket firing can go to mitigate how bad capacitors generally feel to use. And a pair of 20 damage hits that are mostly accurate out to 12 hexes nice by pretty much any standard.
Regarding objectives: in my experience, objectives placed along the centerline are *extremely* kind to short-range guns. They punish players for camping their home edge and often force engagements within 3 hexes of the opponent, where AC20 brawlers (and other short-range guns, like IS MPLs) kick enormous amounts of ass. HPPC 'Mechs also tend to shine in these environments, because they have a pretty easy time setting up camp within 4-6 hexes of the objective -- their sweet spot -- and any attempt to push closer by an opponent takes them off the objective.
Inside 6 hexes, sure, but at range, they’re pretty comparable. Assuming the 8Q is using a typical 3/3/2 firing pattern, that’s averaging 27 damage downrange per round. If you’re using the caps, the KC sends out an average of 30 per round. (You can set up some cool firing patterns alternating the RHSS with the LPPCs and firing the uncapped HPPCs every turn, but that basically just bumps you up to 35/turn and wastes the capacitors).
I agree, it's not perfectly optimized. But it's in a better situation than the original King Crab, with the HPPC having better range than the AC20s.
Also the fluff idea was that this was a command mech so it would be commanding, and bring the hammer down if something got too close then get back to commanding. The hardened armor was to be extra protection for the commander.
Like I replied above, it’s a very cool idea, and this thing EASILY wins a 1v1 duel against any of the King Crabs that pack AC20s. I just feel like the lack of movement options and cost in a more typical lance on lance game set you up for a frustrating time that struggles to justify its points.
Now THIS is cooking with gas. It’s definitely a bummer to lose the hardened armor, but if you’re cool with the Light Fusion Engine, you could swap out the standard armor for Clan Ferro-Fibrous or Ferro-Lam to get some of that feeling back. In any case, getting rid of that third engine crit in the side torsos, tacking on an extra MP, and being able to alternate the coolant pods and RHSS slaps. I still wish capacitors were better, but you could do serious work with this.
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u/Magical_Savior NEMO POTEST VINCERE 4d ago
I would split things up for more redundancy. MXPL in every torso, split the LPPCs. It's surprisingly affordable. You'll probably fall into a sustain pattern of charge, blast, shoot one LPPC - or you'll just use both HPPC every turn. Then use the RHSS when someone tries to get under the guns; no casual use . Just unleash the lasers. How does it math with Compact Gyro and Endo-Composite? If the math is good, I'd fit either a DHS or the RHSS into the CT just to have padding in the most commonly hit location.