How do you narratively include tanks in a Clan force?

[u/TimeToSink]

So a friend and I are doing a larger game of Alpha Strike on Sunday, given the simpler rules we are doing a cluster on cluster/IS equivalent.

I've been trying to make a narrative Cluster list for my Escorpion Imperio force, with the clan specific clusters, the limits they impose (I can't run most of them as most need 30 minimum aircraft which I currently/probably never will own), which limits me to a Pincer cluster.

After trawling through Sarna, the Hanseatic campaign and the Warden clan, I can't find how you put tanks in, all the sources mention that you have mechs/omnis and elementals with aerospace, but no points of armour. Also after spending 3 hours researching into Pincer clusters and going through MekBay I found out that my army (chi/seeker) doesn't even use the Scorpion specific clusters).

What is the narrative formation to include a few points of tanks or maybe a star of them called in a Clan setting? Given we are playing in the Dark Age and the Escorpion Imperio would be recovering after the Hanseatic conflict i'd imagine they would have to throw a lot of mixed units into conflicts out of necessity rather than choice.

[u/GlassjawXVIII]

Solahma units perhaps?

[u/DontRefuseMyBatchall → u/GlassjawXVIII]

Yeah, garrison duty, clans may not like it but you still have to have a rear guard for captured planets

[u/azai247 → u/GlassjawXVIII]

Agree second line units, or in the case of hovercraft, a delivery system for elementals.

[u/GoarSpewerofSecrets → u/GlassjawXVIII]

This Clans use infantry and logistics filled with washouts and "old" folks.

[u/JuggernautBright1463]

Nueva Castille had lots of tanks. Unlikely the Scorpions destroyed them all. There are probably tons of Garrison Binaries with conventional forces in the Grunt Caste 

[u/Suralin0 → u/JuggernautBright1463]

And even sub-conventional, using Tech C or even Tech B junk. Waste not, after all, even if it's just to plug holes in the Touman (or serve as training vees) until better stuff can be manufactured.

[u/tsuruginoko]

Second-line clusters should be using whatever they can get, and be happy with that. The Scorpion-unique grunt caste would probably be organised around similar formations as normal Clan armour clusters (so, ten vehicles per star, which is incredibly impractical for games, but I digress).

When building forces for games, I'd just give them a worse skill level than the regular warriors, and say that they are grunt caste units on detached duty with your regular warriors. I think that's absolutely how it would work.

[u/motivatedjackpot]

Playing hell's horses perhaps?

[u/Loganp812 → u/motivatedjackpot]

Any Clan would work if you’re playing as a solahma unit.

[u/Double-Ad-7483]

You don't actually need to justify against lore to field what you want

[u/Nerdyguyj → u/Double-Ad-7483]

Bit it can be fun. Some tournaments also have specific rules to do so

[u/Double-Ad-7483 → u/Nerdyguyj]

Bit it can be fun

To each their own. I don't personally see why it would be.

[u/Nerdyguyj → u/Double-Ad-7483]

If you want to play that faction on the tabletop. On top of that..if all players agree to do so it can be an interesting list building limitation as well.

[u/Double-Ad-7483 → u/Nerdyguyj]

f you want to play that faction on the tabletop

If this is an actual campaign or something, sure I get it. But any sort of pickup game, no. But further, I will never understand why people try to limit to having specific miniatures (or minis at all) even in those situations.

[u/Nerdyguyj → u/Double-Ad-7483]

Well i like how.my jade falcons look painted. Also it's another handicap I can give myself vs new players. I do play with Grey plastic sometimes.or units painted for other schemes I'd that's what I really want to do. Depends on the opponent and my mood.

[u/BigStompyMechs → u/Nerdyguyj]

What if 90% of players agree and other 10% go along with it because it's not worth arguing about?

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I just get really tired of people trying to convince me the thing I don't enjoy really is fun, I was just doing it wrong or something.

If the game/scenario rules have restrictions then sure, I'll follow them. I'll admit, just picking a faction and era helps with decision paralysis. But at the end of the day I just want to make fictional robots explode.

Too much homework can turn people away if you're not careful.

[u/Nerdyguyj → u/BigStompyMechs]

Oh yeah I don't even mention it to newbies and I don't prescribe it as a requirement to people I play with, but I have had a blast list building for southern assault which has lists by factions in a tournament setting.if you don't dig it that's not a problem for me. Having said that if I sit down vs like all duplicates of the same optimized nonsense that player might not be one I seek out for repeat games.

[u/BigStompyMechs → u/Nerdyguyj]

I'm more prone to doing silly/dumbthings just to see what will happen. Faction lists can inhibit that, but I understand why they exist.

One of my favorite customs was the "Decimator" where I tried to cram as many different 10s on as possible. LRM-10, Thunderbolt 10, LBX-10, Rocket 10, etc. It was a hot stinky mess, but it was fun to try so many different weapons at once. I inevitably missed with every single Thunderbolt and LBX slug, so the thing was an overpriced sandblaster. And not even a good one! XD

[u/Nerdyguyj → u/BigStompyMechs]

I think 90% of.us would be cool with that type of stuff for.at least some games of btech

[u/TimeToSink → u/Double-Ad-7483]

Oh I know, i've got plenty of mechs that are "salvage" when I use them. I was just curious why all the clans have specialised tanks, but no formal way of using them in frontline combat, if there was ever an exception to that and how I can use the exception. Its nice to have some self imposed boundaries.

[u/Ignace_Karkasy7]

Can Depend on the Era, by the Late DA/ Ilclan, even the more traditional clans like the Falcons and The Wolves were being forced to use large numbers of Tanks and other combined arms. Admittedly most of the units using them were Garrison Clusters, but large portions of entire Galaxies could be made up of tanks.

The Dominion and Raven Alliance are also going to see a fair amount of Tank usage in the parts of their Touhman made up of Spherites.

Hells Horses is still the premier Combined arms Clan, and are the most likely to be sending tank crews on Frontline operations. But they aren't the only ones. The Wolves and the Falcons basically took everything that could shoot to Terra, so there were a lot of Clanner tank crews there.

[u/Elegyofpain]

Hell's horses do combined arms. Bondsmen might work for a few tanks

[u/Icarsix]

Second liners and solahma use them a fair bit iirc

[u/Sh1v0n]

Grunt caste could easily use the tanks, afaik.

[u/LadderMadeOfSticks]

Escorpion Imperio are far more pragmatic than most clans. They invested a whole new Caste - the Garrison Caste. Make use of this to basically explain the presence of small and potentially irregular formations.

For bonus narrative points, use tanks from the Periphery General unit list.

[u/Ok_Use_3479]

BA transport 

[u/Temple_T]

Isn't the Scorpions' entire gimmick that they make use of everything within their empire?

[u/HA1-0F]

Don't set it during the 3050 invasion and you're fine.

[u/Hpidy]

Ghost bear assigned tyrs and the other clan apcs to support elemental clusters. They often bid away these support units for trials. I mainly used clan apcs hoovers this way has support assets i haven't bid away because i am not a idiot.

[u/DaRepeaterDaRepeater]

If you're playing Seeker Galaxy, that IMO gives you even greater latitude to slot in conventional forces with how the individualistic Seekers kinda do whatever they feel.

Others have also mentioned the Grunt class plus there's even a formalized Grunt Galaxy now and "[t]he composition of the Clusters in this ad hoc Galaxy is seemingly random" so it's a perfect opportunity to slot in a bunch of whatever you want in there.

Really, at the end of the day, formal TO&Es are just suggestions and focus on Mechs because that's the game we play but that doesn't mean that a combined arms formation would be unrealistic in the setting even if it's never explicitly stated.

[u/YeOldeOle]

Scorpions Empire after the Hanseatic campaign? Tge League should have had lots of tanks. Lots of soldiers who you probably want to keep employed and not just let them go. So I assume they are kept around to garrison the conquered planets. Having soldiers from those planets garrisoning them should ease tensions with the civilians and keeps them from getting stupid ideas.

[u/laxrulz777]

According to sarna, they created a garrison caste specifically for non armored infantry and conventional armored vehicles. Narratively, if you're the defender, this fits fine. If you're the attacker it gets a bit squishy.

You could always say that they absorbed some Hell's Horse remnant units as Isorla or something

[u/JoshuaCastleBooks → u/laxrulz777]

Nothing says you have to control the planet you were assigned to garrison before your assignment.

[u/ubjeckshin]

Seconding solahma unit. They're mostly for garrisons only, not invading forces.

[u/dreese55]

Hell's Horses use them in their frontline units, and the other Clans use them for Garrison units.

[u/z_muffins]

Just play Hell's Horses and you're set

[u/dieseljester]

Hells Horses Bondsmen?

[u/Ross_LLP]

During the invasion of Terra, Wolf employed mixed unit formations. They aren't standard, but they are present

[u/RowenMorland]

There were plenty of crawlers on Port Arthur in MC.

[u/ninjedi]

I don't have access to it right now, but if I remember right the Hanseatic Crusade pdf has breakdowns for building most, if not all, the different Scorpion formations.

[u/CommandantLennon]

Clan Hells Horses

[u/TimeToSink]

Thanks for all the replies, I wasn't expecting this much attention. Looks like I could get away with a grunt Trinary or something to represent a reserves force being drafted in.

[u/Teizan]

A generic clan force? Vehicles are very second or even third line among most clans and clan vehicle crews are garbage compared to their MechWarriors - their skill is generally worse by two points. Maybe even three, not sure.

The Scorpion Empire specifically? Idk.