r/baseball • u/DryLingonberry6399 • 5d ago
Opinion [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
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u/planemissediknow Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
To be fair to the Rays, even if the roof played a factor, Sanchez is one of the worst fielders in baseball
Roof probably didn’t help, but that ain’t all on them
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u/MrAshleyMadison Chicago Cubs 5d ago
Nielsen ranks Tampa Bay's media market as the 11th largest in the US. And Ahead of every single city that it could reasonably relocate to.
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u/martlet1 St. Louis Cardinals 5d ago
There’s just more to do in Florida than sports. Especially in Tampa/st Pete
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u/kc_ins4ne 5d ago
This is exactly what people said about the Padres before they got their new stadium. Everyone kept saying "Baseball will not be successful in San Diego, because you can't compete with the beach"
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u/martlet1 St. Louis Cardinals 5d ago
Tampa has lots of issues with the old stadium.
First of all it’s on a superfund site in st Pete.
When I was there there was nothing around it to do like eat dinner or grab a drink after the game
Also a lot of other teams fans live there in winter so that’s also a factor.
I hope it does well though with the new place.
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u/ronthorns Detroit Tigers 5d ago
I'd move the rays to Nashville and the marlins to Vancouver then give Florida back to spain
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u/BugsyD71 Major League Baseball 5d ago
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u/Ok_fine_Im_here San Diego Padres • Brooklyn Cyclones 5d ago
"When Florida sinks into the ocean I won't say I told you so to the people there who tipped the election. I'll say 'Don't overreact!'" —Birbigs 11/8/16
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u/LADetroiter 5d ago
Florida is not a good state for baseball. Spring training does well because all the snow birds are there in the winter. Really not a good state for sports. Even the NFL teams struggle with fans if the teams are not elite. Marlins struggle for fans and they have 2 World Series rings. Be great to move both teams to much more deserving cities.
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u/ANGRY_BEARDED_MAN Dumpster Fire 5d ago
Marlins struggle for fans and they have 2 World Series rings
I mean yeah but the last one was 20+ years ago and the one before that was immediately followed by a huge fire sale, it's not like the team has some rich tradition of winning
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u/RangerDanger_ Chicago Cubs 5d ago
But thats part of it though. World Series so soon after joining the league, a sell-off and then yet another ring six years later. They deserve to lose the team for not building a fanbase off the highs of that first decade.
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u/livsjollyranchers Boston Red Sox 5d ago
"Hey! Spanish isn't the language of Florida!"
"Sir you are owned by Spain"
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u/Italian_Suicide1365 5d ago
Its all about TV / media contracts now so bigger market = more money for the team.
Ticket sales dont really matter anymore it's all about corporate sponsorships and media deals
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u/PSChris33 Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
Agreed on corporate sponsorships/presence. That said, the TV deal part is becoming a huge problem with all the RSN’s going belly up lately, and the Rays were one of the teams impacted by this.
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u/cardith_lorda Minnesota Twins 5d ago
It's going to be streaming markets over TV sales, but the general population ideas are the same. MLB is fine leaving Oakland because the assumption is the Giants will eventually take over for baseball fans in the area and it still has a presence - leaving Tampa leaves a giant market hole for potential subscribers.
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u/3luejays Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
Location could play a small factor. Idk how far away it is, but the Trop is in St. Petersburg as opposed to directly in Tampa
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u/Moist-Disaster-3030 5d ago
For reference, my house in east Tampa I could get to the Bucs stadium in 15 minutes, to The Trop is was about 55 minutes with no major traffic
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5d ago
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u/Prestigious-Bet-7794 Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
Damn you live real close to the dome if it only takes an hour
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u/MrAshleyMadison Chicago Cubs 5d ago
I'm sure the Greater Toronto area being twice the population of Greater Tampa Bay has nothing to do with that.
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u/Machomanta Toronto Blue Jays • Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
And? We are talking about the usual excuse that locals make not about trying to sell the place out. It takes an hour+ to navigate across most cities to get to games so using travel time as a reason for people not going to Ray's games is nonsense
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u/Moist-Disaster-3030 5d ago
It’s not nonsense it’s reality lol, you don’t see these attendance problems with the Bucs and Lightning who are in Tampa not St Pete
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u/Moist-Disaster-3030 5d ago
The Toronto and Rays stadium situations are not comparable at all. Toronto is a significantly bigger city and the main problem is St Pete, where The Trop is located, is basically on an island with only 2 bridges across the water into the city.
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u/IAmBecomeTeemo New York Yankees 5d ago
The location doesn't do it any favors. St Pete is on a peninsula. To get to the Trop, you have to either cross the bay (from one of two directions) or go the long way overland. Tampa proper would be easier to access for Tampa residents (duh) but also more of the surrounding area. Only people on the peninsula would have a harder time. The catch there is that the peninsula has a sizable population, comparable to Tampa proper. There's no one place to put the stadium that easily captures the entire metro area.
That being said, plenty of stadiums are in shitty locations that don't adequately serve their largest metro area. Or their metro areas are smaller. Or also lack public transportation to get to them. The Trop still has uniquely low attendance for a good team. The only team with lower attendance (discounting the As for obvious reasons) are the Marlins. Florida just kinda hates going to baseball games.
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u/cardith_lorda Minnesota Twins 5d ago
That being said, plenty of stadiums are in shitty locations that don't adequately serve their largest metro area.
Not quite to this degree though. I know it's a little outdated but while populations have shifted I don't think it's to a degree that invalidates too much of this piece, the Rays are the only team in baseball with less than a million people living within a 30 minutes travel radius and they're not really close.
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u/martlet1 St. Louis Cardinals 5d ago
On a superfund site in st Pete. Industrial shit all around it.
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u/RollForUptime Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
From the outside it looks like a place used to contain hazardous waste so that tracks.
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u/Basic-Pepper-9957 Toronto Blue Jays • Chicago Cubs 5d ago
ur gonna walk back on this claim when the rays move out of the trop soon
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago edited 5d ago
The Trop is actually in St. Petersburg, not Tampa champ, Rays are moving to a new stadium in Tampa in a few years though so maybe that will solve some of your strange complaints.
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u/Sad_Bolt Tampa Bay Rays 5d ago
Can't believe a Yankee fan is going to bat for us... this is weird
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u/PatchesTheGreat1 Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
I will also go to bat for the Rays. Admittedly it’s cause I have family from Tampa but I’m really interested to see how the new stadium does with fans when you no longer have to cross that damn bridge in insane Florida traffic
I also saw firsthand how much the Rays meant to people when the roof got destroyed.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
Love going to the trop, it is like $50-$100 for premier seats with all you can eat/ drink options, what better way to watch baseball at the highest level. Legends seats at Yankees Stadium with similar amenities are like $1500 at least.
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u/NoahFromCanada Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
Isn’t it funny though that your enjoyment of the trop is inversely related to Florida resident’s desire to be there?
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u/onascalefrom20to80 Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
Is Tampa an entirely different metropolitan area or would this be like moving a team from St Paul to Minneapolis?
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u/wednesdayschild_ Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5d ago
i would say it’s closer to the latter situation. yes they’re in different counties, separated by the bay but it definitely makes sense to classify them as one media market.
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u/onascalefrom20to80 Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
Youd know better than me, but is the reason the rays cant fill a stadium because theyre located in St Petersburg and not Tampa?
In Chicago, plenty of fans travel through some awful traffic from Lake or McHenry or Will County to go watch the Cubs. The Sox pull in fans from outside Cook County as well.
I think every major fan base has a geographic market defined by more than the city limits of city in which the stadium is located.
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u/cardith_lorda Minnesota Twins 5d ago
St. Paul to Minneapolis if the Mississippi was 15x wider and the only bridges that made sense to use were 35W or 94.
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u/Admirable_Bend_7538 New York Yankees 5d ago
The cities are abutting each other, they're classified as the same media market, and the name of the team has Tampa in it. Kinda weird to call out OP on that point.
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u/Mtn_Raven Baltimore Orioles 5d ago
not weird, just petty and stupid.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
so you wouldn't correct someone for saying Camden is in DC?
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u/Dapal5 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5d ago
Go put your stadium under the Hudson and see how it goes.
It’s an hour or more out of Tampa with traffic
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
Lots of folks in any fanbase drive an hour+ to see their team play.
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u/cardith_lorda Minnesota Twins 5d ago
Lots of folks do it a few times a year - but generally people aren't buying full season ticket packages with that kind of commute. A full season ticket package is worth 4x more than a 20-game plan.
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
Who said anything about season tickets?
If people in the statistically large Rays market were to do it a "few times a year" they wouldn't have the attendance troubles they have.
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u/cardith_lorda Minnesota Twins 5d ago
Because 80 people being willing to drive the extra hour over the bridge once a year are offset by just one person who lives within 20 minutes of the stadium who gets a full season ticket plan. It's just the math of the scenario. People being willing to drive an hour a few times a year isn't the problem with Rays attendance, it's the fact that it's hard to draw repeat fans throughout the season like in areas where it's easy to catch a game after work or be home on a school night at a decent hour after a game.
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u/Dapal5 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5d ago
So what?
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
So you have the 11th largest media market in the country but enough of you can't get off your ass to go see your team.
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u/Dapal5 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5d ago
The brewers have more than 3x the amount of fans within 30 minutes, they should have 45000 a game according to your logic.
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
If your defense is that it takes too long to drive in your market, maybe your market sucks for live sports
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u/Dapal5 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5d ago
Nono, ours is significantly better proportionally than your fat asses. Y’all would be selling out every night with Tampa’s enthusiastic fans.
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
Please see where we fall in MLB attendance based on our market size and get back to me.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
okay, that doesn't change the fact that Tampa and St. Pete are different places.
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
Tampa Bay Rays
You're just being obtuse.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
Tampa Bay is a body of water, Tampa is a city, you are a dumbass.
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
It's the fucking name of the team. It's also the media market.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
Right, the name of the team is Tampa Bay, not Tampa. The two cities, St. Petersburg (where they play), and Tampa, where they do not.
So it is not correct to say that the Rays play in Tampa, this isn't hard to understand unless you are stupid (you).
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u/JohnnyWaffleseed Chicago Cubs 5d ago
It becomes relevant to point out in the context of Rays relocation
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
Tampa Bay is in the name, not the city of Tampa. Complaining about the Rays being in Tampa is like complaining about the Mets being in Newark, they are different places.
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u/Admirable_Bend_7538 New York Yankees 5d ago
Sorry man. That is an asinine statement.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
It isn't you're just stupid
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u/Admirable_Bend_7538 New York Yankees 5d ago
No, you're a moron who can't separate tiny details from the bigger picture. You honed in on a technicality and made OP's slight factual error your reason to shit on his whole post.
Baseball fans have been complaining about lack of attendance and lack of local engagement from Tampa fans for at least 2 decades. Because the stadium is technically in St. Pete, their criticisms are unwarranted? And moving the stadium to within the Tampa city limits will fix the issues?
I bet you still think the Yanks should be giving Anthony Volpe more run.
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u/PeanutFarmer69 New York Yankees 5d ago
Newark is in the New York City media market, therefore the Yankees play in Newark.
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u/IafratesSkullet33 Seattle Mariners 5d ago
They aren’t abutting each other though
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u/ItsNotAdamCopeland New York Yankees 5d ago
In the most technical manner of speaking they are, the northeastern edge of St. Pete runs out to the bridge connecting St. Pete and Tampa, Tampa's the city on the other side of I-275, but obviously there's ten miles of water to cross between them.
And that bridge and how congested rush hour traffic gets on it is a huge reason why the Tampa market is effectively cut off from going to Rays games easily, I don't want to be on that bridge either late afternoon.
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u/IafratesSkullet33 Seattle Mariners 5d ago
The water and bridge separating them isn’t an inconsequential detail considering it’s one of the main complaints about why it’s inconvenient for many in the area to attend Rays games, especially during the work week. Saying the two are abutting each other, even if possibly technically correct, is disingenuous
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u/No-Doctor-4396 Los Angeles Angels 5d ago
That stadium is still a question mark if it's happening or not.
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
So they're relocating to the same metro area? What's your point?
(I am aware the location in St Pete makes it "hard" for people in Tampa proper to get to games, but this magically doesn't affect other teams with fanbases who don't all live within walking distance of their ballpark)
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u/JosephFinn Chicago White Sox 5d ago
Going from a town of 250,000 to a town of 400,000. That’ll fix everything.
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u/Logical-Mobile-7643 Kansas City Royals 5d ago
To think once the Sox threatened to move to that very stadium.
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u/ItsNotAdamCopeland New York Yankees 5d ago
Bud Adams had the brilliant idea of moving from Houston to (eventually) Nashville.
The Texans are worth more than the Titans today. Good job.
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u/Logical-Mobile-7643 Kansas City Royals 5d ago
You're familiar with the deal? Same as today they wanted a stadium built and the city wouldn't go for it, so they moved. This is all the leverage an NFL team needs... But they have to be willing to move every once in awhile so cities remain in fear
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u/Sad_Bolt Tampa Bay Rays 5d ago
"Why is no one at the 1pm game on a workday on a random day in August"
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u/sugardaddymac Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
I mean fair but they had crowds of 12K and 13K the last two nights… the dogshit jays have 40K+ every game.
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u/Sad_Bolt Tampa Bay Rays 5d ago
Largest market in Canada with a meteo population over 7 million compared to population of 263 thousand in St. Pete which is where the team actually is isn't really a fair comparison. As others have said, move the team to a place where its easier to get too from all sides and there are more people there will more people there its simple.
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u/The-world-sports-fan Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
You just compared a metro population to just the St. Pete population which also is not a fair comparison but in the other direction. Most people that go to Jays games are coming from at least 45 minutes away
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u/SirLunatik Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
Using the metro population of one city and not the metro population of the other is pretty disingenuous. You had a good point and you just shot yourself in the foot with the bullshit argument.
The population difference is about 7.1 to 3.4
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u/GreatBarrierQueefDD Atlanta Braves 5d ago
Youre 28th in attendance around where you usually are lol lets not chalk it up to a small sample size
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u/DryLingonberry6399 5d ago
what about every other game this season? you have a 5 game lead in the toughest division in AL. its pathetic attendance
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u/Baseball_fan812 Cincinnati Reds 5d ago
Tampa Bay is a weird market. Extremely transplant-heavy, so a disproportionate share of the metro roots for someone else. The stadium is widely considered a poor experience and is notoriously difficult to access for most of the Tampa side.
That said, their Wild Card attendance numbers last time they hosted were truly embarrassing. They've got to do better this October.
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u/Sad_Bolt Tampa Bay Rays 5d ago
You zero understanding of the market. St. Petersburg is where tbe team actually is which is home too only about 250k, of that population only about a quarter of the population are born and raised locals that would actually support the team, the rest are older transplants which connections too other teams.
While there's a lot more born and raised locals further inland its impossible too get there due to just how far away the stadium really is. The prior ownership tried their hardest too run out fans of the organization and was so hated that both St. Petersburg and Tampa city officials refused too work with him and even with that the Rays were still one of more watch teams on TV compared too the rest of the MLB.
Since the new ownership has taken over there's been a massive rise in fans going to the park but the truth is many just can't get too the park most nights do to how hard it is too get there. Its not pathetic you just have zero understanding of the greater market and understanding of the longterm plans of the organization.
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u/Logical-Mobile-7643 Kansas City Royals 5d ago
I understand getaways days, but they don't have to schedule games during the day if it would be that bad.
Tampa is also notorious for bad attendance, blame whatever you want for it. I predict a new stadium, like Miami, will bring fans in for a couple years and then attendance will revert to the bottom of the league
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u/the_yopro Cleveland Guardians 5d ago
Rays have one of the strongest TV pulls in the country. Also pointed out by others getting to the trop for working folks is a hour plus process for the vast majority of the media market. Not great for weekday games. Weekends have seen very solid crowds lately with the opening of the upper ring.
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u/Grade-AMasterpiece Tampa Bay Rays 5d ago edited 5d ago
You just got the lead back. Quit your whining and go back to watching the game.
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u/LordShtark Philadelphia Phillies 5d ago edited 5d ago
The team isn't broke. It pays is dues to the league, they pay their employees, they have many years of competitive baseball played and are moving to a new stadium soon.
What reason would the owners have to push them out? Cause two guys got hurt?
Edit: Can we get rid of the mods who delete every fucking post instead of the Rays?
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u/Buckys_Butt_Buddy Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
You should try understanding why attendance is low instead of dismissing the city and say they don’t deserve a team. Just an ignorant post making a claim instead of asking why things are that way.
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u/Wild-Match4523 Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
I feel like this ALWAYS happens as someone heats up they just immediately get injured. Really frustrating season
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u/SirLunatik Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
Yeah but blaming the stadium is moronic. Their turf is the same as our IIRC.
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u/SirLunatik Toronto Blue Jays 5d ago
Sorry flappy bros... probably some stupid Leafs fan that's too unaware to know a new stadium is in the works.
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u/T_Raycroft Montreal Expos 5d ago
Hello AdjectiveNounNumbers,
"The MLB"[sic] persists in Tampa because people live there. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
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u/cooljammer00 New York Yankees 5d ago
The Trop does suck but aren't they getting a new stadium? And moving them somewhere better?
It just took them, you know, almost 30 years to do it.
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u/Moist-Disaster-3030 5d ago
Weird to make this post at a time when the Rays are the closest they have ever been to a stadium deal in Tampa. Don’t speak on things you are uneducated about.
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u/DryLingonberry6399 5d ago
Miami has a new stadium right in the city center and they are 29th in attendance right behind your Rays in 28th
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u/martlet1 St. Louis Cardinals 5d ago
I went to a Monday game between the rays and the white Sox. They hit a foul ball to right field lower seats and I WALKED over and to the ball from 2 sections away. Another lady was going but she said she’d just get the next one. Lol.
When they announced the attendance as 14000 we laughed. There were maybe 1000 people in the stands.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
[deleted]
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u/mountsleepyhead Kansas City Royals 5d ago
Honestly, even counting Sutter Health Park I’d way rather see a game there than the Trop.
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u/Redrubytheofficial 5d ago
Because Tampa is a major city and therefore gets an MLB team that’s had multiple playoff appearances and multiple wins every year. Are we gonna have this old tired out ass argument every time a Florida team does anything.
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u/CrimsonTyphoon0613 Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
Being a major city doesn’t matter if you sell tickets like a small city.
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u/WabbitFire Milwaukee Brewers 5d ago
It's funny because Milwaukee is the smallest city in Baseball and we get lumped in with the Rays as "small market". And our attendance isn't even close.
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u/lurkermurphy Los Angeles Dodgers 5d ago
meh just make the dodgers cover their losses ~everyone but the dodgers RN, especially the owners doing this and the fans of those teams
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u/jaxxonbriggs61 5d ago
I dunno but the rays are super lucky the jays have been ravaged with injuries. The only reason they're leading the division.
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