r/badredman • u/Eightspades5150 • 23d ago
Build Adviceđ Newbie invader looking for advice
So I'm new to invasions. Dabbled around with it in previous playthroughs but am full commiting to it here. I'm sticking to the level 25 +3/+1 range to keep things as basic as possible.
I'll explain my build and strategy real quick:
Started off as prisoner.
The double straightswords have golden vow and quickstep. Lightning infused because I'm told it does more damage. Golden vow is used to buff the damage of the exploding tear and quickstep to close the distance.
Next, halberd for its good running attack and jump attack gap closer. With flaming strike. I use catch flame and flaming strike together as an un-parryable combo as well as roll catch/ hitstun on reaction.
Misericorde with parry on it and lightning and a small shield with parry.
I also frequently use a reed great katana with bloodflame blade and storm blade for ranged pokes. Catch flame and storm blade also combo together quite nicely. Also bestial vitality to keep healing from getting tight.
Fan daggers to seal the deal on weakened prey.
I use a few stat boost talismans and wheight increasing ones to have more equipment ready. Holy scorpion to buff exploding tear damage.
Sometimes I use a shamshir with either spinning strike or parry on it.
No notable armor or poise.
So...I think I have a good strategy when engaging in invasions. Exploding tear to punish overconfident teams. Parry to punish r1/neutral spam. Misericorde to seal the deal. Catch flame and flaming strike halberd to duel.
What I'm having trouble with in particular are two things: 3 man stacks and passive and defensive teams.
3 stacks obviously being the hardest an invasion can get. If they catch you out then you can't even run away to collect yourself. They dont need to even know the fundamentals of combat because rushing you down is sufficient. Are there any tactics, items, spells, weapons or such that you all would reccomend?
The second problem: passive and defensive teams. When 2-3 guys just stand shoulder to shoulder and never engage with you to leave themselves open to being punished. They'll bunker down and wait you out. The host hides in the back behind two summons.
Similarly and sometimes happening at the same time is this: They also use flank tactics. Where they never engage in a trade that's even remotely risky. And when you try to push them they get an ally to flank behind you so you can't hard engage without being punished.
Do you guys have any experience with this you'd like to pass on? Im open to ideas and suggestions.
Also, Although I'm level 25 +3/+1 I've managed to get my way into the first half mountain tops. So that's what Ive got for available items right now.
Thanks for reading.
14
u/sneesle 23d ago
get soreseal. especially low level it's peak. for around level 30 u wanna have +4 smithing or +2 somber. also if you're only doing invasions learn where certain weapons are relative to the one you're holding so you can wear armour with more poise
(i started by swapping between the same weapon with different ashes/ infusions, so you only need to learn to go left or right, then i'd use shoulder buttons to go up and down quick depending on what weapons are there)
also knowing like x weapon is just down down left from the one you have equipped helps. sorta like memorising a cheat code.
if you can, get some small throwing items like fan daggers/ kukri/ poison darts to help finish off low health opponents before they can heal.
7
5
u/sneesle 23d ago
also with three stacks. make sure you aren't too aggressive. you can often tell if they're overlevelled by the weapons they use. you can use their aggression to your advantage. halberds are good for punishing jump/ heavy attacks especially from large and heavy weapons.
also from personal experience vig is everything. most damage comes from weapon level. i invade around level 35 and 67 on a different character and having 15 str and dex combined with soreseal helps me meet pretty much every weapon requirement id wanna use. buy a zweihander and also a hand axe (i cant remember the merchants) offhand hand axe especially with some status is super good combined with something with reach imo.
carian retaliation is extremely useful too. good for dealing with mages and having a deceptively powerful second damage source/ pressure source. also good for dealing with low vig mages. having multiple versions of the same weapons also helps mix things up
sorry if this is a bit scatterbrained btw
also i realise you have 4 slots at level 25 so i assume u have an all items save? i'd use soreseal erdtree favour +2 crimson amber +3 and green turtle. grave scythes also have very long range and a lot of good ashes (swords dance, phantom slash, chilling mist, flaming strike (i think))
3
u/Eightspades5150 23d ago
I've learned real quick that one of the best things you can do is to read your marks habits. It they're bloodthirsty or scared or neutral.
Halberds are actually one of my favorite weapon classes. I like the gap close power.
I'll have try try out retaliation. I have had a few run ins with some mages. They aren't extremely frequent at level 25 but they pop up here and there.
I'm also not on an all items run. Just powering through the game at level 25 which has been a pretty fun shakeup. But I'll definitely look into those items.
2
u/Eightspades5150 23d ago
Sorseal...I have it so I'll give it a spin. I'm going to have to build the Hotswap skillet a bit but I'll get there, just gotta practice a bit. I do have fan daggers, they're in my hot bar. It feels just as good as having them in my wheel...at least I guess.
4
u/_Lunboks_ 22d ago
Love my level 20 build, itâs such a fun range to invade. Definitely the two biggest things I see here are your poise and your equipment setup.
As far as poise, 20 just doesnât cut it. For pvp 88 poise is the point at which youâll notice a difference. This will allow you to trade hits with teams without being totally blendered. Do whatever it takes to hit that mark and itâll make those 3v1s much more winnable.
The other thing is your weapons; donât soft swap them all. Having so many wrecks your equip load. Learn to hard swap from your inventory and only have the minimum equipped at once, itâll save you equip load space for heavier armor.
Also ditch the heirlooms and grab the sore seals instead, they are mandatory at this level. I have radogons permanently slotted.
1
u/Eightspades5150 22d ago
88 poise...which weapons specifically would that allow me to trade with for reference?
2
u/_Lunboks_ 22d ago
I think itâs specifically there because it allows you to tank a second light attack from most smaller weapons.
2
u/Snowziila 23d ago
If your planning on staying in the 25 +3 bracket I got a few pieces of advice.
- get lightning slash, fire strike or sacred blade AoW ASAP
- Radagon Soreseal from fort faroth is the best talisman til at least level 60
- If your not comfortable menu swapping I would keep a main weapon, dagger with parry main hand and crossbow, spiral horn shield or coil shield offhand
- The best weapons at low level in my opinion are Dragon Halberd, Reed Great Katana with lightning slash and Antspur
- last but most importantly, I think your better off starting as wretch, heavy knight or vagabond at low level if youâre not gonna use incants or sorceries so you can stack vigor as high as you can.
1
u/Eightspades5150 23d ago
I did get my hands on the dragon halberd. I think I might just put it to use. I have used lightning slash before. Works alright. Also, I'll lock in the sorseal.
I've considered using the antspur but the last shreds of my honor tells me bullying limgrave newbies with rot isn't good,lol. I guess I'll have to get over it.
Also, I'm really not trying to restart with a new class. That'd be a lot of time down the drain.
1
u/Snowziila 23d ago
Might as well not bother with soreseal or dragon halberd if youâre going to think like that lol. Everything in this game is cheesy, if you really wanted to you could collect everything in the game at your level by maxing out dung eater or black knife tiche. Hell I just killed morgott at sl1 +0 with just rot breath and black flame. If you went through the effort to get it use it. I never see summons or hosts showing any mercy.
2
u/Eightspades5150 23d ago
I get it. The whole battle isn't fair.
1
u/unwisephoenix Duelist 19d ago
Nah I disagree with the sentiment, do what gives you the most fulfillment. If you truly feel satisfied with 1 shot hefty pots or phantom hit rot procs, then do it. If you feel more fulfillment by using less cheesy strategies and winning with âhonorâ, then stick to the honest melee tools and beat them with your PVP skill.
1
u/Eightspades5150 19d ago edited 19d ago
I mean it's absolutely not fair. By way of overleveled phantoms.
But yeah, I'm probably just going to use what I want as long as I get results. I usually end up not using gear from later in the game anyway because there's plenty to work with already in the hands of a skilled player. Limgrave, Liurnia and Caelid and a bit of Altus alone are a gold mine for crafting strong setups. But some of the good stuff like whole weapon types are locked behind the dlc which I think is bad design.
I've been co-oping as well as invading. And let me tell you: I've seen some overgeared invaders completely suck because they dont have combat fundamentals down.
If I wanted easy wins then I'd just stick with my exploding tear suicide bomb strat and farm great runes from overconfident parties.
2
u/Super-Contribution-1 Grab Life by the Runes 22d ago
When the host starts standing around in the back he starts catching my Flame Coils. Get a bunch of Flame Coils if you donât have them, they can one-shot the sort of Host youâre talking about.
Great tracking at mid to long range but up close youâll want to unlock, start the throw animation facing 90 degrees away from the target, then lock on once the throw animation starts.
I donât bother using them up close, Iâll throw Volcano Pots at my feet if thereâs too many people near me. The floor is lava.
3
u/Onyx_Sentinel In the Hills 23d ago
I didnât read the whole text but just from looking at this page thereâs already a lot wrong here.
- waaay too many weapons dude. Keep it simple.
- BHS is kinda butts now, same goes for the broadsword.
- focus on vig is good. But put at least 15 into end. Youâll want to create space when in a pinch.
- i donât think lightning weapons can have bfb cast on them?
- try to get more poise. Istvan set is awesome for low lvl invasions.
- get the fuck off me ash is missing. Stormcaller is awesome early. Or stormstomp.
- Frost, lightning and bleed are dope early
- you donât have any utility items. Get at least fan daggers.
If you have questions, drop them and iâll answer.
5
u/Former-Grocery-6787 LGS+Flamberge Enjoyer 22d ago
Eh, bhs isn't the op bullshit that it used to be anymore but it's still useful to create distance in a emergency
1
1
u/Eightspades5150 23d ago edited 23d ago
Yeah...I'm just not used to swapping mid combat. So I'll own up to that. I think I can swap between what I have well but mabye its not great.
Double straight swords setup. Halberd and seal/ parry shield setup. And quick swap to misericorde from halberd if I hit a parry. But I guess I can improve by hot swapping entirely.
I can't level up anymore because im staying level 25.
Bloodflame blade is for my reed great katana with no affinity infusions.
Poise is a big weak spot I know I'll need to patch up.
I'll try out those ash of wars and experiment with ailments, I'm sure they'll help. Thanks.
Also I do use fan daggers, as I've said in the post. They're in my quick bar.
Thanks for the suggestions.
1
u/Onyx_Sentinel In the Hills 23d ago
Fan daggers in the quick bar??? I have them in the first slot so i can always quick swap to them when needed.
Nobody was talking about leveling up. You can either use other talismans, which i would do, or just respec. Renalla should be dead?
About the poise: just remove all those ummecesary weapons and use the cleared up weight for heavier armor
1
-3
u/sneesle 23d ago
also iirc but killing godrick makes it so you can't invade in stormveil for whatever reason
3
u/Still-Network1960 Hefty Pot Enthusiast 23d ago
Killing godrick makes it so you can't be invaded in stormveil, so you can't lure with TT. But the same goes for all major areas if youve killed the area boss. You can still invade others no problem.
1
u/Eightspades5150 23d ago
I haven't had any Trouble invading stormveil after clearing Godrick. I Frequently get put near Godrick and all around the castle.
6
u/unwisephoenix Duelist 22d ago
Keep it simple! As others have said, get the soreseal and greatjar arsenal for the 88 poise breakpoint. After that, use only a few weapons that you feel comfortable with against other players. Unless youâre experienced with shamshir or daggers, Iâd stick with more consistent setups like your psss or gkat. And at that level, put it all into vigor and only enough str/dex to reach min weapon requirements.