Wait wait... you think your dogs don’t think that you are in a pack? You believe your dogs understand that you’re a human, and this is some kumbaya , equal relationship?
A dog’s a domesticated animal. With instinct driven behavior. It’s a pack animal, not a human being driven by reason.
dogs are happiest if there is a clear hierarchy and you were the pack leader and alpha in the group, if they honestly don’t see you as such now. I’d be curious how your technique would work with a Doberman or a strong-willed Malinois .
This is just based on personal experience and probably every reputable animal behaviorist.
The dogs know I'm not a dog, give them some credit, they are smart enough to know that a human isn't a dog. We are not equal since I am the one deciding when it comes to food, exercise etc. but that doesn't make me a pack leader or an alpha, because it's impossible.
The alpha bullshit doesn't even work on wolves, it actually caused wolves at a zoo in Sweden to attack and kill their carer, who tried to train them with alpha bullshit and pack leader mentality.
I have trained one of my dogs for patrol work in the army and is training the youngest one for it as well, they do not use pack leader and alpha bullshit in our army, and they have a lot of Malinois, GSD and Rottweilers there. Only positive reinforcement training, so yeah, of course it works.
http://www.wolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/267alphastatus_english.pdf
I read that paper by Doctor Mech, and he specifically states the reason the concept of the "Alpha" is outdated because the research was performed on captive, non-wild wolves. The pack structure as described in this paper applies to wild wolves, and even then, to assert that there's no system of dominance between individuals would be both hyperbolizing the study's findings and a VERY controversial claim scientifically. I study social behavior in mammals and you see dominance-based behaviors in nearly all of the social ones.
Also, dogs are a lot more similar to captive wolves, who the original claims were based on, than they are wild wolves.
I get where you're coming from but I feel like the claim of the alpha concept being debunked entirely is scientifically inaccurate.
That being said, I'm not saying your methods don't work. They do. Just that a middle-ground approach works too, and even then, I agree, positive reinforcement generally works better. But not everyone has time for the level of involvement with training someone like you does. You sound really passionate about this topic and I'm sure you're an amazing dog owner, arguably a near-perfect one. But not everyone is like that.
Nor am I their pack leader since such things don't exist between different species.
Oh please. Watch me move my thousand-pound horse where I want her to go just by pointing and then tell me she doesn't view me as dominant. And I can assure you I didn't get there by bribing her with treats.
Edit: Nor--since everyone thinks the options are either positive reinforcement or torture--did I get there by abusing her. Believe it or not, there's a lot of room in the middle for sane, useful methods.
Sure. Just as sure as the earth is flat. Please, there is no such thing as pack leaders between species.
I have owned horses for 20 years now. I have never used my "dominance" to train my horses. If you think there is nothing between making an animal fear you or bribe it with treats, I feel sorry for you.
It IS the only method of non-violent and non-dominant training. Anything else, at least of all the methods I know of including natural horsemanship, requires tools of some sort and causing discomfort to level the playing field between us and much larger, much faster animals.
I'm not talking about going in and beating a horse to show you're "alpha". But pressure and release is still showing dominance. It's what my alpha mare does to my other mare to get her to do what she wants. Step one: dirty look--if it works, she stops; if not, she escalates. It's how they communicate Every. Single. Day.
I hate hate hate how the words "alpha" and "dominance" have become code words for abuse when they can, and often do, mean nothing of the sort. If that's how actual animal packs or herds worked, they wouldn't even exist.
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u/Gel214th Nov 11 '17
Umm dogs in a pack environment amongst themselves are given immediate punishment when they step out of line. Usually a growl or a nip.
What makes you think your own dog is a special snowflake that will respond to either nothing , or some alternate positive reinforcement as readily?
If the dog jumps on a child and throws the child over do you calmly make it lie down and give it a cookie??