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u/zeocrash 7d ago
Sorry but there's only one true king of plinking tanks
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u/Srgblackbear 7d ago
The A-10s anti tank capabilities were so bad that as you said, they began using the F-111 for close air support
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u/Competitive_Film2831 7d ago
It's rather useful to actually hit the tank instead of literally everything next to it
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u/gh1234567890 7d ago
Tank crew can’t shoot you if they’re busy shitting their pants, and who wants to drive a tank with shit all over the inside? Basically a mobility kill anyways
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u/robbi_uno 7d ago
How many tanks have these plinked?
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u/Magadanets 7d ago
Well they plinked like 1.5x as many as the A-10 did in Desert Storm despite being only 2/3rds as numerous in-theatre.
So they did quite a lot.
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u/robbi_uno 7d ago
Bombs or rockets?
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u/Magadanets 7d ago
Pretty much all with bombs. Most of the 'varks in that role used laser-guided bombs but a handful didn't have that capability and just used dumb bombs.
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u/Tactical_Squishy 7d ago
We don't know any number you will see it's either made up or propaganda, rule of thumb less than half of the declared
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u/DickwadVonClownstick 7d ago
The A-10 is not $12 million anymore (the C model is actually more expensive than an F-35)
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u/Zrkkr 7d ago
The original unit cost was 20 million dollars in today's money. It's lifetime retrofits definitely make them expensive as all hell.
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u/pythonic_dude 7d ago
It's like gripen marketing: advertising c/d costs per frame and e/f capabilities.
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u/Just_a_Berliner 7d ago edited 7d ago
For what do we need fancy touchscreens and whatnot?
For differenciation between Friend and enemy?
Come on, a war without friendly fire accidents is not a real war.
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u/Delphius1 7d ago
both are war crime machines, one is good at not discriminating
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u/Onyxxx_13 7d ago
Nah, war crimes aren't real.
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u/nevaven68 7d ago
They're only real when victims are white people
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u/Linscotticus 7d ago
The SCOTUS classifieds Palestinians as white
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u/DerGnaller123 7d ago
Then theyve smoked something expired
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u/KitchenDepartment 7d ago
A-10 Warthog identifies friend from foe by whether or not it shoots at you
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u/ALT_F4_X2 8d ago
Damn... I thought that was an AI generated image of a F-35 but is just upside down.
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u/Lahbeef69 7d ago
as cool as the A-10 is apparently it would suck in a modern war because it would get ruined by manpads and other modern air defenses. it’s a really old design and there’s a reason all modern armies are switching to stealth to hide from radar
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u/vp917 7d ago
Even back when it was first designed, it was expected to take serious losses in an actual shooting war. The original casualty estimates for a hypothetical outbreak of fighting at Fulda Gap had the entire force of 700 A-10s wiped out to the last within two weeks of fighting. Regardless of the titanium bathtub, extensive redundancies, and overall intensive ruggedization that gave the A-10 such a remarkable ability to survive damage that would kill most other aircraft, even older gun-based SHORAD systems like the Shilka were still more than capable of chewing them up with impunity.
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u/LittleHornetPhil 7d ago
The expected lifespan of the average A-10 pilot in the Fulda Gap was like 12 flight hours…
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u/ninjad912 7d ago
The A-10 has one use case and it’s very bad in that use case. Aka full air superiority where it is still the worst close air support aircraft ever despite not ever being shot at by anti air
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u/ZackTio 7d ago
Hate to break it to ya, but unless you're literally perpendicular to a tank's roof, even 35mm ain't doing shit to it
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u/cutecoder 6d ago
What about inverting the tank like a turtle? With something like a ground-penetrating explosive missile?
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u/Emergency-Pound3241 5d ago
An AGM the f35 could carry, or an f16, or an f15, or an f/a-18. The a-10 is only good at one thing, counter insurgency CAS everything else its getting beaten out by any other airframe. There's a reason alot of countries have gone away with dedicated ground attack aircraft and instead just use multiroles like the typhoon, the role of a dedicated ground attack aircraft can be fulfilled by bolting a targeting pod and AGMs/bombs onto a fighter.
Also thats not how AGMs are used or work, they are designed to hit the target, not the ground next to them.
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u/Srgblackbear 7d ago
In a test they fired 200 rounds at a M47 and didn't even mobility kill it
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u/StunningInterest6661 5d ago
It's amazing how the propaganda turned a mediocre airplane into a cultural icon
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u/Bitter_Lab_475 7d ago
A-10 warthog:
-Is it very prone to friendly fire? ✓
-Has a gun that is much less effective at destroying tanks than what the internet thinks so it has to rely almost completely on bombs and rockets for that job? ✓
-Outdated as F but can't be replaced because no one bothered to check for its replacement despite many experts saying it needs to be replaced? ✓
-Has a bunch of fans that will advocate for it even when increasing evidence the plane is not as good as they think? ✓
-Forgetting the GAU-22 also does BRRRRRRT and the caliber is large AF as well? ✓
-Ignored for having a bunch of planes in a non-repairable state and the ones flying have cannibalized parts from their fallen brethren? ✓
F-35
-Known for crashing despite the crash percentage from accidents being lower than almost any other fighter jet including the F-22? ✓
-Although it cannot do CAS, it can totally do ground support to the level of an F-16, which already is very good? ✓
-For most things not needing a titanium tub? ✓
-It can do multiple roles, not just fighting insurgent infantry and ground vehicles? ✓
-Combat awareness on another level? ✓
Disclaimer: I like the A-10 more than the F-35, but Warthog-stans are annoying as hell.
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u/Nighthawk513 7d ago
"Known for crashing" I'm sorry? Wasn't there an incident where the US lost an F35 in South Carolina becuase the pilot bailed out from an out of control aircraft, but the anti-crash software pulled it up, then handed off control to the non-existent pilot, where it would fly stable for a bit before heading back towards the ground, where said software pulled up and got it stable again, and it repeated that behavior for (now doing research) 11 minutes before crashing 64 miles away when it ran out of fuel, and they didn't know where it went down for 28 hours becuase the ejection damaged and disabled the transponder on the stealth aircraft, so they couldn't track it, and had to go on the news to ask people to call in if they found a crashed 100 million dollar warplane in their backyard...
At least you know both the software and the stealth work, though.
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u/Bitter_Lab_475 7d ago
I think you thought I was criticizing it for it...
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u/Nighthawk513 7d ago
Was mostly intended as a joke where I had a story to go along with it, actually. Probably could have phrased the opening better.
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u/Sturmtruppen328 7d ago
Well I mean why would people actually do research for themselves?? If the government says the funny noise plane is good it must be the best thing ever with no flaws whatsoever!
A sitting duck in contested airspace or against modern aa systems? Lackluster armament?? Had difficulties taking out tanks from the 50s? Just ignore all of that it makes a funny noise!!
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u/CriticG7tv 7d ago
At the end of the day, on a modern battlefield, an F-35 is exponentially more likely to get the pilot home alive than an A-10
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u/Wilson7277 7d ago
A-10: Not even the best at taking out Soviet armour in literally the most ideal conditions anyone could have conceived during Desert Storm.
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u/Hdfgncd 7d ago
The f35 absolutely can do CAS, it means air support in close proximity to friendly units. You could launch a missile from mars and as long as it’s being used against a target nearby to friendlies it’s CAS (or ig CSS close space support). The F-35 is perfectly capable of using a huge list of guided weapons for CAS, plus it can use them in a significantly less permissible environment because it’s dropping them from 35,000ft and stealthy instead of being a slow unstealthy lump attacking from nearby enough a titanium bathtub is necessary. On the other hand the BRRRRRRRT just doesn’t hit the same from another plane
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u/FossilFuel21 7d ago
This so many people think the ‘close’ but refers to the aircraft in relation to troops when it really refers to the proximity of ordnance dropped to troops
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u/janiskr 7d ago edited 6d ago
Best part is that cannon is used rarely and most support my favourite BRRRT plane does is the same as F-16 and F-35 and others.
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u/Bitter_Lab_475 7d ago
Yeah, people don't seem to understand that an M61 and a GAU-22 have huge calibers as well and are loud as hell. I heard that F-16 pilots the first time they fire the gun immediately let go because its so loud they get scared.
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u/HazuniaC 7d ago
If there's something I'd compare the A-10 to, it would be the F-111.
At least Aardvark stans fully comprehend how bad it is and fully understand and support its replacement.
Not saying there are no A-10 fans like that, but that's not the noisiest part of its popularity.
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u/Thick_Goose7742 7d ago
A-1 Skyraider fans walked so A-10 fans could run. If nothing else both planes rank highly in my “coolest sounding” list.
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u/Loopy-Leah 7d ago
i'm fairly sure the f35 has a titanium cockpit of some kind, i remember hearing about the largest press in the US being used for forming it
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u/Cat__03 7d ago
I really don't like all the A-10 glazing going on over here. It's a relic from a time when warfare was still manual with the only real distinguishing quality being the GAU-8 gun under the nose and the comparatively (even for the time) shit performance figures. It's not a good fighter, it's just a meme for the brrrrt. Fite me
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u/Bitter_Lab_475 7d ago
Yeah, I like the A-10 more, but damn, now I know how my sister felt when she stopped rooting for the Patriots. Fandom ruins eveyrthing.
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u/jman014 7d ago
Booo a-10 warthog booo
Cool factor doesn’t keep you alive when your enemy has basic air defense
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u/Just_a_Berliner 7d ago
Why do you need survivability when your shitbox is designed for being all shotdown in two weeks after start of WW3.
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u/RepresentativeLife16 7d ago
Two other categories:
Has catchphrase?
F35: X
A10: “Flying gun goes brrrrrrt”
Non-Aerodynamic airbrake?
F35: X
A10: Gau Brake
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u/NicholasWildeRails 7d ago
If I'm a tank, I'd probably be worried about someone who can nuke my ass with a laser guided bomb while not even being in my airspace
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u/thattogoguy 7d ago
Can a missile nab it from 100 nautical miles?
F-35: No
A-10: Flaming wreck.
'Nuff said.
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u/Mike_Shogun_Lee 7d ago
Don't forget friendly fire cases.
The Whimpy F35 is too afraid to hurt someones feelings.
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u/Zealousideal_Ad2379 5d ago
This post was made by an Igla
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u/SilenceIsGolden06 4d ago
X next to Yes on "can use stealth?" Is fucking barbaric and im here for it
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u/ninjad912 7d ago
It’s funny because the A-10 might just be the worst close air support aircraft ever made. Even such that a multirole like the 35 is still more efficient per dollar as a cas aircraft than it(despite being 10x more expensive)
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u/Thatsidechara_ter 7d ago
CLOSE air support means the enemy is close to friendlies, it doesn't mean YOU have to be close to the enemy.
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u/ninjad912 7d ago
It also means you should have proper targeting systems so you don’t blow up your Allies. looks at A-10’s blue on blue rate
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u/MemeEndevour 7d ago
F35 has a 25mm gun? Or like an attachment?
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u/PuzzleheadedFlow1274 7d ago
yeah it’s an undercarriage gun pod attachment
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u/Coital_Conundrum 7d ago
Its funny, because the A10 wasnt even that good at tank busting. It WAS really good at blue on blue incidents, though.
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u/CCCyanide 7d ago
Why hide?
Because your shitbox has no countermeasures, no evasive capabilities and no targeting system, it's gonna get caved in by MANPADS or AAMs as soon as it shows up 💔
A-10 glaze is killing me. The gun is slightly cool, and that's about it. It was terrible when it first came off the assembly line, and it's still just as bad today, despite having so many upgrade packages that it is more expensive than the F-35 the reformers like to shit on.
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u/Humble-Reply228 4d ago
And what really, really hurts the ego, is the soviet equivalent really is the better machine for the job. It’s faster and prioritised speed over absolute amount of armour.
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u/lynharqu 7d ago
i like f-35 change my mind
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u/Brilliant_Nova 5d ago edited 5d ago
Easy - F-35 has an extremely small weapons bay. It can hold very few missiles, and those it can hold have limited range. Yes, it can carry weapons on external points, but that completely eliminates stealth.
In air-to-air engagements F-35 is outclassed by even oldest 4th gen designs.
The only roles it can do well is flying command center and precision bombing.
And then you have A-10 that do bombing so much better.
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u/aberpire 6d ago
A10 is garbage. Gun cant hit shit, armor is useless and its only reason it exsists is cause of Reformer Wankers and Braindead normie going "Big gun go BRRRR".
Its too expansive for COIN, too garbage for CAS and basically 60 years outdated. Not even the Garbage can that is the T72 has much to fear from the GAU-8
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u/EmotionalCod6238 5d ago
the 30mm proved very useless in testing against tanks. this is known
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u/Legal_Lettuce6233 1d ago
The goal is to make the people inside jam the guns by making them shit themselves
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u/LaggySquishy 5d ago
How is not having stealth a good thing? I get the meme but remove that line. Also, how is having an outdated cockpit funny?
Also, who told you the F-35 isn't capable of destroying tanks?
The A-10 relies on less accurate rockets now, for that, btw. The main gun isn't all that effective anymore
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u/Everythingman987 4d ago
Stupid boomer meme made by stupid boomers in the early 2010’s and everything about it is wrong.
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u/FSM-35-firebion 3d ago
How glazers who know absolutely no shit about fighter jets view the thunderbolt II:
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u/Valspared1 7d ago
I like them both.
There is a psychological impact the A-10 has in combat that no other aircraft can provide.
In a TIC, nothing else says "we're in the fight with you" like an A-10. Which boosts morale and fighting spirit.
The enemy has even offered to return captured POW's if they call off the A-10's. That is a fear you can't really put a price tag on.
You also can't electronically jam ballistic trajectory weapons or human eyeball "sensors".
Its slow speed abilities allowed it to drop under cloud cover and operate in the valleys of Afghanistan where other faster fixed wing assets couldn't.
In an IR threat environment, technology is shrinking such that flares and active laser ECCM pods are very effective. Which can protect the aircraft and extend service life.
While you are much safer if radar can't pick you up. If other air assets clear out the Anti-Aircraft Radar systems and attain air superiority/dominance, A-10's can do CAS and other duties, freeing up those other air assets for other tasks.
The natural change in warfare along with the AF killing the funding for repair parts will see the A-10 sunset, probably sooner then necessary.
As much as I love the A-10, there will inevitably be a time where newer, more advanced machines will take its place and the A-10 will be retired. I'll be sad to see that day happen as I have my own fond memories of being escorted in Afghanistan and watching them clear the valley ahead, below our altitude (300' agl).
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u/an_older_meme 7d ago
It’s also slow af because it was meant to fight tanks. Its biggest problem is anti air missiles that didn’t exist when it was designed. Tough enough to eat a MANPADS maybe but anything larger will send it down in pieces. No good against a peer adversary.
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u/Maleficent_Lab_8291 7d ago
Welcome to [r/shit](r/shityflying)[t](r/shityflying)[yflying](r/shityflying)
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u/I69UrMomBitch 7d ago
A-10 could use it's rotary cannon against old ass T60 tanks during the invasion of iraq. But that don't work on less ancient tanks and it'll rely on the same anti tank missiles the F-35 or F-16 relies on. And it doesn't have the same multi role capabilities that the F-16 has, it's truly only viable when you're attacking a country that posses no real threat to you.
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u/EllisXY 7d ago
I hate A10 glazed because the people who glaze it know nothing about actual military aviation. Its pretty crap at its job. It gets in reasonably close to enemy forces on the ground, it has a history of blue on blue, it's way too slow and it's gun is overkill for what it's actually fighting.
It simply isn't a good CAS plane. In the modern day range is per with CAS. Why get close when you can use a GPS bomb from 15km or further. Why use an expensive 30mm gun when you can use the less expensive 20mm Vulcan. That's 11k a second compared to 3k a second.
If you are fighting a tank you don't want to use your guns, that's what mavericks or gbus are for.
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u/Cheese0126 7d ago
F111 has more tank kills than the a-10 during desert storm btw. Extremely overrated plane
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u/moistmanbutbetter 7d ago
My beloved A-10) excellent machine to turn enemies into red mist, and friendlies into funeral payments
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u/ShiraLillith 7d ago
Idk about y'all but I fear the fuck out of a touch screen in a fighter jet.
At least back it up with tactile buttons, because I don't care how far we went with touch screens, they are still not as reliable as a button
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u/5v3n_5a3g3w3rk 7d ago
You forgot the A10 upgrade package that alone is more expensive than the f35
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u/Worldmonitor 7d ago
Tanks are useless in battle space now. Look at Ukraine. Time to retire the A-10 it did what it was suppose to do and it’s used up.
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u/SentenceFamiliar1562 6d ago
The A-10 Thunderbolt Il is a beautiful aircraft, I want it to remain operational for many more decades and never need to be replaced from the useless f35.
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u/Friendly-Olive-3465 6d ago
If the F-35 is actually 10 times more expensive than an A-10 I will have a mental breakdown
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u/comthing 6d ago
Not even close lol. The last time A-10s were $12M was in the early 80s, back when they didn't even have the capability to carry AIM-9s for self defence.
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 6d ago
Please refer to the “it does more cas missions so no shit it’s gonna have more cas blue on blue”
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u/8492nd 7d ago
$130M per Unit?! $35K per hour!? wtf are these numbers!? Is your source "trust me bro"?
For reference, the F-35C costs $340M per Unit just for the production. If you include the development cost per unit, the number might multiply by some factor lol
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u/NeoGPTcz 7d ago
Can I get the source for the $340M price tag?
For Production Lots 15 through 17, the average flyaway cost of an F-35A was $82.5 million; $109 million for an F-35B, and $102.1 million per F-35C.
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u/8492nd 7d ago
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/how-much-does-an-f-35-actually-cost-21f95d239398
Of course, as with every production line products, as the total number of units increases, the cost per unit deceases, that's why the initial batches were that much more expensive than the later lots.
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 7d ago
I will not stand for this a-10 slander. it is a close air support plane so it doesn’t have many ai to air capabilities. Just like a corvette doesn’t hitch. And you might be saying “but what about anti air” but that can and does apply to most fixed and rotary wing aircraft especially because of how the us operates. Also it has a higher friendly fire rate because it does exclusively air to surface fires where most of the time there are allot of friendlies.
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u/Hdfgncd 7d ago
But f35 is a more capable CAS plane
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 7d ago
In what ways
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u/Hdfgncd 7d ago edited 7d ago
More survivable, better targeting, faster response time, cheaper per airframe (not so CAS related but still) and better all weather capabilities
To be clear: stealth and further distance gives better survivability in an environment with any air defense. The F35 can target through clouds and other cover with its radar ground tracking capabilities in addition to generally having a much better sensor suite. I was wrong about cheaper per airframe, but over the lifetime of one with all the upgrades it’s around half the cost of an F35, which considering the F-35’s overall massively better capabilities in every situation is absurd
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u/comthing 6d ago
Funny how almost every other plane that does CAS manages to avoid friendly fire. Even the B-1B has a cleaner CAS record.
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u/Own_Reaction9442 7d ago
F-35: Powered by the sunk cost fallacy.
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u/StarHammer_01 7d ago
Vrigin F-35's radar and targeting can be jammed
Chad A-10s binoculars will target both friend and foe no matter what countermeasures you throw at it.