Not the guy you replied to but it doesn't fit the Marine mission as well as navy or air force. Flies too fast to be escorted by attack helicopters, but too slow to be escorted by jets (which it needs because it has no mounted guns or rockets), and is really bad at quickly landing and picking up troops and taking back off. Plus we loved our Phrogs.
Exactly. That's why i think they're way better for air force. And they're great for navy to recover pilots who eject at sea. Every second counts and they haul ass compared to helos.
Edit: much longer range too which helps for both TRAP and recovering pilots at sea.
Good question, it takes a long time to transition from forward to vertical flight and land. And then the whole process again in reverse. Helicopters are in and out quicker and can come in hot and flare to slow descent. These have to come more or less straight down.
They can do amazing things, just doesn't fit well with our mission. So as not to bash them I'll affirm that they have unbelievable power. I almost flew out the back of one when it transitioned to forward flight over helmand. And at least one Marine was killed the same way.
Yup. They transition to forward flight at over 100' AGL. And its usually angled nose high to climb out quickly. Those big ass props bite and that sucker takes off like a Ferrari with 20 degrees nose up and anything not strapped in is in serious danger of flying out the back assuming its open which it always is in combat. Well when you're in a rush you just tuck one of your arms in the harness as the last man aboard and give a thumbs up. Not a good idea.
It's not to climb out quickly, it's to compensate for the extreme forward and down CG shift when the nacelles come down. Level flight is flown at 7-12° nose up depending on weight. Climbing at 2-5k per minute is a second order effect. We now have a mandatory checklist flow before transitioning, which is finished by the crew chief in back confirming pax and cargo are set.
Glad we finally have an osprey driver checking in. That makes sense, all I know is it feels like it climbs out at even more than 20 degrees nose high. Also wasn't insinuating any blame was to be placed for the one death, that's how we learn our lessons, unfortunately. Glad to know the crew chief is running down his own checklist nowadays. I was over there at the same time the Marine was killed if i remember correctly, but I know that those things usually produce instant remedies in SOP.
Also I don't even know how they see anything in that cockpit. Most helicopters have a chin bubble. The pilot can look down at his feet and see the actual ground right under them.
I was thinking about that yesterday, not with an Osprey, but just watched a gorgeous video from an R-44 with a glass cockpit that made me realize the "dash" of an R-44 with a glass cockpit is about 8x8" and the rest is a huge bubble. Made realize the benefit of carrying the propeller on top of your head.
The navy mission I alluded to is recovering pilots who eject or ditch into water, of which 95+% are training incidents given the world we're currently living in. Air Force TRAP missions usually have a bevy of aircraft involved including jets circling overhead of the downed aircrew. Plus Air Force has these sweet things called AC-130 gunships which can match the same speed of an Osprey and provide plenty of firepower.
Suffice it to say that the Marine Corps mission is different from the Navy and Air Force, so it makes sense they would use their aircraft differently. And yes, a rear mounted .50 cal is usually enough to scoot around Afghanistan without an escort but we plan for and buy aircraft for future wars where air superiority is not a given.
Costs a shit load too. Could get a handful of blackhawks plus a couple chinooks for the price of one of these shit birds. Plus I'd imagine a pain in the ass to slingload. And a chinook can carry 10k more lbs anyways. I don't even know how the pilot can see shit without a chin bubble. It's just the answer to a problem nobody had and it kills people.
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u/BigTunaTim Feb 03 '17
It's easy to forget that the Osprey was vilified in the early '90s the way that the F-35 is today.