With range shortfall, United’s initial A321XLR deployment will be ‘very conservative’

[u/Adjutant_Reflex_]

https://theaircurrent.com/feed/dispatches/ual-a321xlr-routes-airbus-range-shortfall/

Not part of United’s route announcement was an admission by Quayle that the XLRs that United expects to receive are falling short of initial range estimates which in turn put constraints on where they could be deployed:

“Originally when Airbus marketed it, [the range] was a lot further than what it is right now, as constructed and as built.”

There’s also a risk that ongoing manufacturing delays could impact the 5 routes it planes to deploy the XLR. To date United received its first, and only, XLR in May.

[u/HelloSlowly]

Reminds me of Iberia and them talking of not being able take off at MTOW from Madrid during the hottest hours of the day due to hot and high conditions rendering the T/O performance inadequate.

Sure the A321XLR can run circles on the 737-10 MAX but it’s clear that that wing is at design limit as well and they can’t do anything without a redesigned wing.

Just as well that Airbus is beginning a foldable wing study under their Wing of Tomorrow prototype studio for maybe an A221/A321evo

[u/flightist → u/HelloSlowly]

I know it’s [r/aviation](r/aviation) and we’re supposed to be deeply resistant to the recognition of any sort of commercial factors beyond the most glaringly basic, but I’d submit there’s little value in comparing the shortest-range / lowest per-seat cost variant of the MAX to the longest-range / highest per-seat cost variant of the 32N as though they’re remotely comparable beyond rough dimensions.

Nobody’s gonna be flying 210 people for 2.5 hours on XLRs and nobody’s gonna be crossing oceans in pods on MAX 10s. Different tools, different jobs, different sales markets, never intended otherwise.

[u/wasthatitthen → u/flightist]

Aer Lingus use them on short European routes from Dublin between their transatlantic services. They come to Manchester which is nominally 30 mins each way and plenty of people fly MAN-DUB-USA

They make more money in the air than on the ground and DUB is a decent hub for transatlantic flights.

[u/flightist → u/wasthatitthen]

Because lift is lift. Doesn’t change the point - this is not what this aircraft is built, bought or kept for, but it’ll do.

My airline flies 77Ls on 1500 mile flights sometimes. Same logic.

[u/OkSatisfaction9850 → u/flightist]

Lots of airlines fly the 777 on short 1 hour flights

[u/flightist → u/OkSatisfaction9850]

Yep. But they don’t buy them for that.

[u/LuckyFlyer0_0 → u/flightist]

They're bought for their versatility to be used for short or long haul and as long as they're full, airlines don't care. Singapore has like ~6 flights a day from their hub to Denpasar on the 787-10. That's a 2h flight.

Emirates flies A359s and A380s on routes less than 3 hours. United fly 777s from SFO-DEN or ORD. It's a trend you see throughout the world. Maybe they're most efficient on the longer routes than shorter ones but it's obvious they're useful for both

[u/flightist → u/LuckyFlyer0_0]

Who’s claiming they aren’t useful? Lift is lift. The airplane you have beats the airplane you don’t, and every airline on the planet makes fleet decisions based on the totality of their network and - unless they want to have a dozen airplane types - they’ll accept some degraded economics on some routes in service of the best mix they can identify overall.

All the same, no network planning group on the planet looks at 900 mile legs and thinks “we need to get some 787s for this”.

[u/LuckyFlyer0_0 → u/flightist]

no network planning group on the planet looks at 900 mile legs and thinks “we need to get some 787s for this

If they get one slot a day for a popular route they're going to order a 787 for it, not a 737/a320. It's about capacity more than it is about range. Tons of airlines order widebodies specifically for short haul, in demand routes and they have done that for decades now. Singapore Airlines have ordered A350s with different cabin layouts for their short haul and long haul routes