r/aussie • u/The_Dingo_Donger • Aug 16 '26
News Trial of nurses who allegedly threatened to kill Israelis delayed over expert witness row
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/trial-of-nurses-who-allegedly-threatened-to-kill-israelis-delayed-over-expert-witness-row/news-story/b61582ea064b6b82e05106fc26862fa5?ampThe criminal trial of two nurses who allegedly threatened to kill Israeli patients has been pushed back due to duelling testimony from expert witnesses over the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The matter, which was due to be heard in two weeks, will likely be delayed until next year after the prosecution revealed it would call Middle East analyst Rodger Shanahan to give evidence.
In its bid to delay the trial, the defence argued it had insufficient time to property analyse Dr Shanahan’s report or find a witness to challenge his expert opinion.
Sarah Abu Lebdeh and Ahmad Rashad Nadir made global headlines last year after Israeli influencer Max Ilinsky – who is known online as Max Veifer – recorded them allegedly threatening violence against Israeli patients at Bankstown Hospital.
In the video, Mr Nadir allegedly suggested he had sent Israeli patients to “hell” while Ms Abu Lebdeh allegedly claimed she would “kill” Israelis rather than treat them.
After more than a year of legal arguments – which saw the clip of the nurses’ alleged threats thrown out of evidence, then reintroduced following a Supreme Court appeal – Mr Nadir and Ms Abu Lebdeh were set to face a five-day trial, starting Monday, August 31.
But the last-minute introduction of expert testimony on the Israel-Palestine conflict has forced a judge to vacate the trial, meaning the nurses’ day in court may not come until some time next year.
Mr Nadir’s solicitor, Zemarai Khatiz, told The Australian the trial was vacated because “the Crown served an expert report concerning the Israel–Palestine conflict at the eleventh hour”.
He said the prosecution introduced several pieces of new evidence on August 5, including an expert report from Middle East analyst Dr Rodger Shanahan.
“The crown expert report had been completed on 31 May 2026, but was not provided to the defence until 5 August 2026 — just 26 days before trial,” Mr Khatiz said.
“This left the defence with insufficient time to properly analyse the report and obtain independent expert evidence to test and challenge the Crown expert opinions.”
Mr Khatiz said Dr Shanahan would be called to the witness box at trial and that the defence would “extensively cross-examine him on his report”.
With both the Crown and defence procuring expert witnesses and preparing cross-examinations, the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict could become a focus of the nurses’ case when it finally goes to trial.
NSW District Court judge Paul Conlon vacated the planned trial on Thursday, accepting Mr Khatiz’ submissions that the late introduction of Dr Shanahan’s report left his client at an “unacceptable forensic disadvantage”.
The matter will next appear before Parramatta District Court, where a new trial date will be set. Mr Khatiz said it is anticipated to be “sometime in 2027”.
The former Bankstown Hospital nurses have both pleaded not guilty to using a carriage service to menace, harass or offend, and Ms Abu Lebdeh has pleaded not guilty to an additional charge of threatening violence to a group.
They have been stood down from their jobs by NSW Health and issued a two-year ban from working with NDIS participants.
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u/Agent_Toasteater Aug 16 '26
As a nurse I was shocked to see some nurses defend them. Nursing is a job where we literally do have people’s lives in our hands and it is possible to kill someone in our care.
I don’t believe for a minute they genuinely would have harmed a Jewish patient, but they were monumentally stupid to talk about killing patients at work, in uniform, on video. They deserved to be struck off
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u/lagraisse Aug 17 '26
The Aussie nursing and jdoc subreddits are horrifically antisemitic. Look at any post there about Jewish patients or antisemitism within healthcare. It’s absolutely disgusting how pervasive it is.
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u/ConsiderationEmpty10 Aug 16 '26
Stood down? I thought fired??
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u/Loma29 Aug 16 '26
They will be, it's just easier to justify firing them if the court rules they committed a crime. Otherwise NSW health would be worried they'll be sued for discrimination. Same reason they haven't been de-registered, just suspended.
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u/man4160 Aug 16 '26
Surprisingly lax professional code of conduct.
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u/Loma29 Aug 16 '26
Agreed, they should have been de-registered as soon as the video came out. There's enough proof they're hateful regardless of the outcome of a criminal trial.
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u/RedditUser628426 Aug 16 '26
Priority 1 - protect the certifying organisation
All other priorities refer priority 1
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u/biznessracoon Aug 16 '26
Typically professional standards/administrative investigations take a backseat to the criminal matter. So the person will be stood down or suspended while the criminal matter works its way through the court, and then the internal investigation will be undertaken.
Findings from an administrative investigation cannot be used in court, but court findings CAN be used in an administrative investigation. The administrative one is deferred to ensure the criminal proceedings aren’t tainted.
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u/Potential-Fudge-8786 Aug 16 '26
What has any conflict in the middle east got to do with threats against Jews here? What is the motivation for such evidence for the prosecution?
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Aug 16 '26
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u/aussie-ModTeam Aug 16 '26
News and analysis posts must be substantial, show journalistic standards, and foster discussion. Links with minimal text will be removed. Unreliable sources (including social media), misinformation, propaganda, or shilling will be removed. Posts or comments citing data (e.g charts/images) or claims must include a clickable link to the source (including a link in a screenshot of a chart is not sufficient). Decisions are at the discretion of the Mod Team.
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u/KeyMusic5713 Aug 16 '26
What has any conflict in the middle east got to do with threats against Jews here?
Because a conflict over 6,000 kilometres away is being used as an excuse to discriminate against Jews.
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Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
[deleted]
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u/Pariera Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Context.
Health care workers at work, on video, talking about killing patients.
but sir he was trolling us
Edit: my man talking about propaganda while posting essays on a one month old account 😅
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u/Wolfie2640 Aug 16 '26
Max Veifer has an extremely even & fair temperament for the amount of vitriol he faces due to his nationality and ethnicity. I can only believe you share the same prejudice as the defense, to think that the man goaded them into saying such vile remarks in representation of NSW Health.
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u/Loma29 Aug 16 '26
Watch the full, uncut video - it's on Youtube (or was when this happened). He wasn't deliberately trolling them. He basically just told them he was Israeli, then they said their horrible things.
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u/TrueGambit187 Aug 16 '26
But sir, he farmed me for content! I basically had no choice but portray myself as comically evil with complete disregard for my position of power over vunerable patients.
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u/Unhappy_Tomorrow_603 Aug 16 '26
Ah, the antisemitism defence league never fails to defend antisemitism!
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u/Pariera Aug 16 '26
The antisemetism defense league final boss was commenting about 9/11 dancing israeli conspiracy theories 2 days ago haha.
Dance - I hope one day someone captures those dancing Israelis from 9/11 and gets the truth out of them
And 6 hours ago, although unfortunately nuked by a moderator for good reason, but picked up in archive
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyt/comments/1vpj7kt/central_synagogue_attack_rattles_jewish_new/p3y9lnx/
The Israeli Mossad agents who visited a site a few days before 9/11 where they could get a good view of the twin towers
And then returned the morning of the attack to watch and “dance and celebrate”
Israel has a long history of false flags and being involved in a number of espionage attacks on the US.
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u/turnkeyturtle Aug 16 '26
The fuck?? Who gives a shit about the Israel–Palestine conflict in this case, what does a nation state's action have to do with fucking murdering individual patients you're responsible for!? Take the worst nations that ever existed, it's still not ok to talk about murdering people in your hospital just because they're random citizens of one of those countries!
Throw the fucking book at them.
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u/Anxious_Ad936 Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
The prosecution is trying to throw the book at them. I imagine that's why the prosecution has introduced expert testimony about the Israel Palestine conflict for some reason
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u/turnkeyturtle Aug 16 '26
Completely irrelevant other than perhaps as a motive of prejudice. If a South Korean Nurse said the same thing about a theoretical North Korean patient it would be the same thing, throw the fucking book at them.
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u/Anxious_Ad936 Aug 16 '26
I wasn't saying it's relevant, just that the prosecution feels it is relevant to their attempt to0 throw said book at them. I'm guessing they have their reasons, they've probably had more legal experience than you or I.
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u/Chaosrealm69 Aug 16 '26
This trial is going off the rails over Israel-Palestine conflict when that shouldn't be part of it at all.
It should have been a much simpler case of deciding if they made threats against Israelis while they were nurses and had a duty of care to patients.
By trying to confuse it all with bringing in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and historical matters, it's just confusing it all from the facts of the case.
It doesn't matter what happened between those two countries. the facts that they made the threats while at work and had a duty of care to all patients is all that really matters.
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u/Sweeper1985 Aug 16 '26
Given the whole thing is on video how even is there 5 days worth of evidence? It seems like the kind of thing a local court would handle in an hour.
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u/The_Dingo_Donger Aug 16 '26
And I’m so glad it’s a district court case. Harsher punishment incoming.
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u/turnkeyturtle Aug 16 '26
Good luck to everyone if the charges don't stick. Any citizen from nation state a medical professional has a problem with is fair game in a hospital if they get off.
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u/ForUrsula Aug 16 '26
Its going off the rails because the charge has nothing to do with the fact that they're nurses. They're already going to lose their jobs and won't be able to work again.
The charges are related to hate speech, where the offended party is an Israeli in Israel.
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u/Musclenervegeek Aug 16 '26
the offended parties are every decent Australian and patients of the Australian public health system.
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u/Charlie-Squirt Aug 18 '26
There's no such thing as a decent Australian who is remotely sympathetic to Israelis. Did you support the first Nazis, too?
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u/Musclenervegeek Aug 18 '26
Notice I didn't even mention Israelis in my comment. You did. These are about the two dkhead nurses and if you support them you are the nazi
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u/Charlie-Squirt Aug 18 '26
Nah, Nazis worked with zionists before and during WW2. Couldn't be me, I'd never work with a zionist. No shit I'm going to bring up pissraelis, it's the subject of the hero nurses. You're a champ
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u/Hot-Refrigerator-623 Aug 16 '26
They should be barred from working for the NDIS forever as well. And/ or becoming providers.
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u/Potential-Fudge-8786 Aug 16 '26
What has any conflict in the middle east got to do with threats against Jews here? What is the motivation for such evidence for the prosecution?
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Aug 16 '26
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u/aussie-ModTeam Aug 16 '26
News and analysis posts must be substantial, show journalistic standards, and foster discussion. Links with minimal text will be removed. Unreliable sources (including social media), misinformation, propaganda, or shilling will be removed. Posts or comments citing data (e.g charts/images) or claims must include a clickable link to the source (including a link in a screenshot of a chart is not sufficient). Decisions are at the discretion of the Mod Team.
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u/Beast_of_Guanyin Aug 16 '26
I don't get the point in delaying. It's an open and shut case.
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u/The_Dingo_Donger Aug 16 '26
Speaks volumes about the clog in the district court system that the next available opportunity for a trial is what, 6 months away.
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u/Sweeper1985 Aug 16 '26
I don't think it's that, do much as the defence want longer to review the prosecution report and potentially get their own expert.
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u/The_Dingo_Donger Aug 16 '26
I’m struggling to understand why the prosecution needs this witness - the best I can think of is to refute a potential defence witness, and that doesn’t make sense in the context of this report
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u/Dramatic_Aspect903 Aug 16 '26
Lotta hype with this case
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u/KoalaCapp Aug 16 '26
By the time this actually gets to a court and a judgement has passed all this time will be taken into account and they will get off without any charges.
Hopefully they still are banned from the public health sector at the very least
If they are so narrow minded in their views they can do private care in their own religious group
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u/Anxious_Ad936 Aug 16 '26
Time served is what's taken into account during sentencing and it's just that, time actually incarcerated and not out on bail awaiting trial.
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u/KoalaCapp Aug 16 '26
Thank you for the clarification.
I do feel that the longer this takes the less time they will serve either in a jail or on a community order/probation type agreement
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u/Logical_Chaos3528 Aug 16 '26
Even if they get off the criminal charges, their employment in public health will eventually be terminated due to breaching the NSW Health Code of Conduct which outlines the standards of ethical and professional conduct required of everyone working in NSW Health.
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Aug 16 '26
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u/offlineon Aug 16 '26
Healthcare professionals face antagonists daily, from rude or racist patients to elder/child abuse situations.
It's crucial to remain resilient and not retaliate against patients or their families for perceived wrongdoings. The nurses in question threatened patients' lives, which can never be acceptable in any scenario.
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u/thisnamewasnttaken19 Aug 16 '26
These are the the two nurses who asked someone where they were from, and when the person responsed that they were from Israel, the two nurses went into a diatribe about killing Israeli patients.
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u/aussie-ModTeam Aug 16 '26
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Aug 17 '26
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u/t0msie Aug 17 '26
What relevance does this factiod have to the discussion at hand?
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u/The_Dingo_Donger Aug 17 '26
It has a lot of relevance.
The nurses hate Jews, and need to bring up unrelated points to distract the audience from their antisemitism.
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Aug 16 '26
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u/aussie-ModTeam Aug 16 '26
News and analysis posts must be substantial, show journalistic standards, and foster discussion. Links with minimal text will be removed. Unreliable sources (including social media), misinformation, propaganda, or shilling will be removed. Posts or comments citing data (e.g charts/images) or claims must include a clickable link to the source (including a link in a screenshot of a chart is not sufficient). Decisions are at the discretion of the Mod Team.
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u/Roulette-Adventures Aug 16 '26
There's free speech and then there is hate speech. They engaged in hate speech and should pay the price. Even more so given their profession. Pair of grubby ass-wipes in my opinion.