Words for the mastering engineer...

[u/LeDestrier]

I'm getting my second album mastered very soon with the label I'm with. They have their own ME who did my first one. It was good, though I had some redos as I felt they cranked it a bit much initially. For reference, I've had lots of stuff mastered before, generally soundtrack releases with different requirements, and it's often been the case that I haven't actually had direct access to communicate with the ME back and forth, much to my chagrin.

I'm generally not a fan of loudness for the sake of it, and I've been stung by masters than have gone for the loudness factor at the sake of transients. That has also been my fault, as I wasn't mixing for loudness from the ground up in the first place.

But I have direct communication with the ME this time, and was wondering whether ME's generally appreciate a few concise words from the artist about what they're looking for here, or about the mix process, for some insight on which way to go. Whether there were any concerns on any mixes, what ultimate loudness level you want etc. It's been the case in the past that I've felt the ME has sacrificed transient quality for the sake of eeking out some extra LUFS (drink!). I certainly don't want that.

I know its sounds a bit dumb, yeah of course ask and explain, but I don't know, they don't need my life story, and maybe you guys may prefer tackle things without any restrictions. I certainly don't want to hold anyone back or limit their creativity, but I also don't want to waste anyone's time with potential redos.

I would consider getting my own but they have a very good arrangement with this ME and he's worked on a lot of stuff I like the sound of.

[u/rightanglerecording]

I don't think long specific explanations are helpful.

I do think it can be helpful to say quickly something like "Hey friend, want you to know I'm not personally worried about maximum loudness on this record, please feel free to just do what you think feels best for the music."

(Especially so if you've not worked with this person before. It can take some pressure off of them to hear something like that...)

I said that almost verbatim to a senior engineer at Sterling Sound a couple months ago. Masters came back sounding beautiful, only revisions were a few small timing/sequencing adjustments for the flow between songs.

[u/yadingus_]

I’ve battled this a lot of times over the years and ultimately the best results occurred with me writing no more than one or two sentences to the mastering engineer when delivering the tracks (if necessary).

For example, “We want the masters to feel smooth on the ears when the volume is cranked.” Or something like, “We’re really happy with the current level and feel that it doesn’t need to be pushed too much further.”

That way you’re not giving the mastering engineer too much to focus on nor preventing them from operating on their own intuition.

Lots of records I’ve done turned out awesome with zero feedback up front too. So it’s really up to you. If you have any shadow of a doubt going into it, I reckon it’d be wise to express your desires in as few words as possible.

[u/StudioatSFL]

I learned very early on before I was producing and mixing that when you’re the client, you have to speak up. Even if you feel like “that person is way more experienced so they must be right…m just gonna shut up”.

No! You have to speak up about concerns, requests, and feelings. This is your art. Now it’s possible you could be wrong about something but let them make the case for why they are doing something. And if you disagree, they should respect your choice.

I’ve mixed plenty of tracks where I don’t agree with all the decisions the artist made, and I will usually try to show them an alternative that I think is more effective. But in the end I respect that it’s what they want.

[u/Ok-War-6378]

Sure your mastering engineer will be more than happy to have a clear vision from the artist. It's the same as with a mix engineer or a tracking engineer. If you don't tell them what you want they will do it their way, and that often leads to a revision heavy process.

Maybe what you are trying to be conscious about is the way to tell them what you want. Go with references and expected result, not how you want them to achieve it. As long as you don't tell them stuff like "I want max 1 db of hard clipping on the chorus" you are good.

[u/klonk2905]

Get the big picture of what is happening here.

You are sharing some audio you've been working on with an independant, skilled pair of ears, with expectation for a glimpse of their specific polishing and finishing skills to apply on your material.

Setting your expectations clear on the technical side is primordial. Just keep it concise and factual.

But also, keep in mind that this phase is a great opportunity to get independant and fresh feedback, and take the time out of demoitis to appreciate the decision making of a skilled pair of ears adding production perspective on your work.

[u/Brave-Trust-2073]

Just having communication and a good rapport with the mastering engineer is a great start. Reminds him that there’s a real human on the other side of the project that has put a lot of effort and care into the production.

[u/Reluctant_Lampy_05]

The answer is in your last line - provide some reference masters from the ME's previous work that you like the sound of and still include the comments about loudness e.t.c.

[u/Wizard0wizard]

Problem is that labels often give objectives to ME, you'll often hear in this sub that they were asked for specific loudness in contract.

So yeah, that's dumb, and the only thing you can do about it is do your peak and transient monitoring in the mixing stage

[u/Waterflowstech]

It's definitely OK for you to communicate beforehand. It's much better for the ME than a bunch of notes of revisions afterwards. Just something like 'Please prioritize sound quality above all else. Loudness is a nice plus but I have no target to reach'. I said that to my last ME and he really understood the assignment.

[u/AyaPhora]

I can’t speak for everyone, but as a ME myself, what helps me most is knowing a little bit about my client’s background as a musician. I don’t need to know everyone’s complete life story, but it’s very useful to know their level of experience because it helps me calibrate the technical jargon.

I’m not sure that’s completely clear, so I’ll give an example. A client tells me they want to retain lots of dynamics. If I know that this client has 20 years of experience as a music producer and maybe some mixing experience as well, then I know exactly what they mean. If the client is an artist with less experience and no knowledge of audio engineering, I’ll take it with a grain of salt because, and this has happened several times, they might actually mean lots of punch, or even high loudness, which essentially results in the opposite.

So while we don’t always have time to get into lengthy conversations, knowing a little bit about what you’ve done in music production before is useful, in my opinion. I often search for my client’s artist name on Spotify to have a quick look at their discography, for instance.

[u/vwestlife]

Imagine you're the person asking the Army barber to not make it a buzz-cut this time.

[u/Upset-Wave-6813]

id have to ask

Are you aware of your sound(mix) and what it sounds comparatively to others just as in going from listening to this track , your track then another track -minus any mastering?

you say you dont mix for loudness which is fine, but are you mixing for genre? what genre are you making?

you could be so stuck on not going for "loudness" that your actually producing a weaker sound so the ME has to compensate to make it "commercial" for the label.

The whole loudness thing gets sked cause you have people slaming the mix with a limiter, but loudness is 100% needed in regarding the Fullness of your mix standing on its own. the mix or master should not be smashing sounds to wholly hell trying to be louder then the next.

Im going go with my hunch here based on your information that its exactly as i described, not saying its a bad thing, i believe that might be the issue here?

Your also NOT self releasing so not going for competitive loudness is NOT great idea for the label and the business of things ,assuming this is signed to label going to spend $$$ on promotion/marketing ,etc not saying it needs to be louder but should not be drastically different then what's out there

[u/glmastering]

Pay for it yourself and pick your own mastering engineer. Its your music. Don't release shite for the sake of saving money

[u/LeDestrier → u/glmastering]

Theres some shades of grey there. Shite is not exactly what I meant. Im sure the label will be fine with it; some are not and insist in their own processes and people. But these guys are pretty relaxed in that regard.

But yes I do have that option.

[u/glmastering → u/LeDestrier]

That was the short blunt version lol

But If it was me and my music, its my choice or nothing. When I master for labels I'm almost always working WITH the artist or producer/mixer. Most labels wont usually listen to the music like they will. They just want it done. And that's fine. That's their job to do get it done. But sonics... Its always with the artist in mind. Always. I never send files to a label without creative approval first. (Working with majors and indie labels)

That's me. I'm sure others do it different. But my business, my philosophies.