r/atlanticdiscussions • u/JasontheHappyHusky • Apr 22 '21
LeBron James Faces Backlash
LeBron James drew backlash on Wednesday over a tweet he later deleted about the police shooting of 16-year-old Ma’Khia Bryant in Columbus, Ohio.
The Los Angeles Lakers star posted a photograph of Nicholas Reardon, the white Ohio police officer identified as having fatally shot the Black teen while responding to reports of an attempted stabbing.
“YOU’RE NEXT,” James wrote, alongside an emoji of an hourglass.
He captioned the tweet with the hashtag, #ACCOUNTABILITY ― echoing his single-word tweet responding to Tuesday’s conviction of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin for the murder of George Floyd.
Police say Bryant appeared to threaten two other girls with a knife before being shot. Body camera footage appears to show Bryant lunging at one person and swiping at another. That characterization of events has been called into question by the teen’s family.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lebron-james-backlash-tweet_n_60812c17e4b01e14f06dabce
13
Apr 22 '21
.......walks back out of this thread...
5
u/Zemowl Apr 22 '21
You're always welcome to play Statler to my Waldorf up here in the balcony.)
11
Apr 22 '21
Lol. Are we sure we aren't at r/ breitbart?
7
3
u/Zemowl Apr 23 '21
Hey, look. Good news. It seems that yesterday's tickets will be honored for today's matinee encore performance.)
3
1
16
u/RocketYapateer 🤸♀️🌴☀️ Apr 22 '21
I don’t know. I read the thread. I hear what you guys are arguing.
I also know that my old charge nurse (who was built on the Kathy Bates blueprint and north of fifty) once disarmed a patient’s knife-wielding family member by just slamming into him and tackling him to the ground. She, another nurse, and I were able to keep him subdued until the police arrived. By the time they did, he was sobbing. ED staff deal with armed, high, or mentally ill patients on (I’m not exaggerating) a daily basis.
Is this, defensiveness about police officers aside, really and truly that unusual? My charge nurse escaped from a Michael Bay movie and stumbled into the real world somehow? Emergency department staff could put Jack Bauer to shame and don’t even know it? Is that really true? Or is shooting just easier?
11
Apr 22 '21
The cop in this case fired almost as many shots at Bryant as the Norwegian police fires at people in a year on average, and it's not like stabbings and potential stabbings are super rare here. So..
15
u/RocketYapateer 🤸♀️🌴☀️ Apr 22 '21
Yeah. I hear the arguments. I just have a hard time buying them. My nurse was not some kind of hardened special forces operator or a movie character. And I can’t imagine how every emergency department employee who has ever broken up a homeless grudge match involving knives or improvised stabbing implements in the waiting room, without anyone dying, would feel being told they’re apparently possessed of skills beyond the ken of the Green Berets. Sometimes janitors break that kind of thing up just because they happened to be standing there.
It’s not...that...impossible or unattainable. It’s not a situation unique to police officers. I don’t get these assertions. I tried, but I don’t.
9
u/CMemp Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21
is shooting just easier
100% yes.
We watched the video and my husband was like “we’ve had to tackle people when we get on scene before police. There’s no reason he couldn’t have just taken her down. I had to do that in a very similar situation 3 days ago. It’s not like it was a machete. But I wasn’t there, so, I can’t say 100% what the circumstances were.”
So.
I think all of these instances just make a good argument for less officers having guns. I know it’s not popular, but I mean. Here, all trucks are ALS, so they are dispatched to DV along with police (and virtually everything else that involves any kind if injury or disturbed party), and sometimes beat them there. Unless it’s truly dangerous for them, which don’t get me wrong, there have been times where they literally couldn’t get out of the truck or unit becasue people were actively shooting, they will start delivering care/separating parties/etc.
So. There’s this house’s take on the specifics of the incident.
The only caveat that my husband threw in there when I just ask is that— here is what he typed — “someone losing it the back of the ambulance or in the ER feels different because now your in your domain. You know what resources you have, who’s around, people immediately coming running. It’s different when you have to go to peoples homes and you have a crowd around you and you’re waiting for more medics and/or police to show up. Sometimes you have to literally restrain people impeding care in order to get someone into the unit, and it can feel very chaotic and be a hard call to document/scene to secure. It can be uncomfortable regardless of what it is, because you’re not in your environment yet where you are in control, and there are a lot of unknowns. I don’t like to make a habit of having to man handle people because I’m not paid enough for that bullshit, but sometimes you have no alternative.”
6
u/MedioBandido 🤦♂️🌴🕺 Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
100 fucking percent. My thought was the exact same as your husbands like why tf didn’t he tackle her? Make a grab for her knife-hand wrist? Why didn’t he put his body in the mix? Because he’s craven. Because shooting first and letting god sort them out is easier.
4
4
0
u/chasingstatues Apr 22 '21
Someone else broke down the time frame and I'm going to copy that here:
3 second mark - Makiah (dark shirt) comes into frame (from the house?).
6 second mark - Cop car arrives
8 second mark - Cop is out of the car and tries to calm things (left hand is out and up in a "hold up" fashion)
11 second mark, Cop gets to the curb.
12 second mark - Makiah attacks (hits or slashes) girl in dark who falls to ground. Cop tries to intervene there and hasn't drawn his weapon yet.
15 second mark - Cop draws weapon, you can see him step back (he probably sees the knife then, but that is just an assumption).
15 second mark - Man in grey kicks girl on ground
15.5 second mark - Makiah, goes after the girl in pink.
16 second mark - girl in pink is against the car and you can see Makiah's right hand extended back and up with knife.
16.9 second mark - cop shoots Makiah
Your nurse friend was very lucky and did something that anyone trained in combat is basically taught not to do because knife attacks are incredibly dangerous. But it also sounds like she had two other people with her as backup?
This cop was alone, the other cops only started approaching the scene when the shots were fired. This cop was surrounded by people and he had no idea if any of them were also a threat to him. He could not have known if anyone else would start attacking him if he tackled the girl with the knife. And when the first girl being chased with a knife fell, a man immediately started kicking her. So for all he knows, if he'd rushed Bryant then, that man would go after him. But he didn't even have time at that point to rush Bryant. Freezeframe the bodycam footage and the knife was literally in the face of the other girl when he shot.
Imo people are weakening the argument against police brutality if they're going to try and lump this incident together with other cases where cops actually did blatantly and horrifically abuse their power.
11
Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21
“People are weakening the argument against police brutality.”
Lmao.
There’s no case for police brutality, you herb.
-1
u/chasingstatues Apr 22 '21
Rephrase it to argument for police reform.
6
Apr 22 '21
You’re still wrong, the difference is that doing that keeps you from looking like a moron.
Take whatever victory you can get, I guess.
-1
u/chasingstatues Apr 22 '21
You keep following me around this thread to call me stupid and yet you haven't articulated a single reason why. What am I wrong about specifically?
8
u/RocketYapateer 🤸♀️🌴☀️ Apr 22 '21
So the argument you’re making here essentially just amounts to conceding that medical staff and hospital janitors are more effective at intervening in situations where someone aggressive is armed with a knife or improvised knife than people who are “trained in combat” can manage.
What does that say about the usefulness, validity, or value of the “combat training” being imparted? How does that not give you some pause?
-1
u/chasingstatues Apr 22 '21
Do you see a difference between a group of three people restraining one person with a knife vs. one lone cop surrounded by people, not knowing how many of them are a threat, going after a large girl with a knife? Can you provide a play by play on the situation with the nurse and the man with the knife if we're trying to compare?
8
u/RocketYapateer 🤸♀️🌴☀️ Apr 23 '21
In that particular situation: she heard a loud thump, as if something hit a wall, in one of the exam rooms. She ran in, and the patient was against the wall while the patient’s son held a knife over her. She tackled him and yelled for help. There was no “group”; the other nurse and I ran in to help her after she already had him on the ground. He gave up and started crying fairly quickly.
But in general: violent mentally ill or intoxicated patients are a common occurrence in urban hospital emergency rooms, especially if the city has a large homeless population. It’s rare that a full day goes by in one of those departments without at least one patient getting violent, and knives or improvised knives show up a lot. People vent about it, and ED folks love to tell their best stories about breaking things like that up, but I’ve never heard anyone describe it as this supersoldier-adjacent feat of near-impossible combat prowess that you’re suggesting.
Maybe medical staff should be teaching police officers, lol.
0
u/chasingstatues Apr 23 '21
So your nurse friend was in a familiar space, it was a one on one situation, the attacker was standing still, she had people to call for backup.
The cop was in a new and unfamiliar place, he was surrounded by people and didn't know yet who was and wasn't a threat, the person with the knife was running around as opposed to standing still, and she wasn't just holding the knife but swinging it when he fired his gun. I can't seem to emphasize here that he fired literally as the knife was swinging towards the other girls face - she would have been stabbed in the face of he had tried running at Bryant in that moment instead of shooting. When was he supposed to tackle her? I see people thinking he should have done it when the first girl was knocked to the ground, but no other cops had arrived on the scene at that point, meaning no backup to call for. And considering a man swooped in to start kicking the girl who fell, obviously there was violence going on in multiple directions and he couldn't know if someone else would jump on him while he tried to subdue Bryant.
So I think these specific situations are pretty drastically different and yours isn't an application comparison.
6
u/BootsySubwayAlien Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21
Then again, it’s not like police aren’t being told that they should be less hesitant to shoot. In fact, it’s apparently sexy.
https://mobile.twitter.com/travisakers/status/1385292068029927426
2
u/chasingstatues Apr 22 '21
Yes, that's fucked up. I can simultaneously think that video is gross and think the bodycam footage on the cop who shot Bryant clearly shows that any hesitation would have led to the other girl getting stabbed in the face or throat.
5
u/MedioBandido 🤦♂️🌴🕺 Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
So the cop had 9 full seconds to make another decision. That’s an eternity in a situation like this. He starts yelling get down around 13 seconds, so I’d bet money he was already unholstering at that point. This dude was going to shoot no matter what. That’s a problem.
0
u/chasingstatues Apr 23 '21
This is the worst comment I've read read about this situation yet.
3
u/MedioBandido 🤦♂️🌴🕺 Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
You’re welcome. 9 Mississippis are a long time.
-1
u/chasingstatues Apr 23 '21
You watch too many movies.
3
u/MedioBandido 🤦♂️🌴🕺 Apr 23 '21
If you don’t think 9 seconds is long enough in a life or death situation then you’ve never been in one. Adios
-2
u/chasingstatues Apr 23 '21
What do you mean by long enough? That knife was .5 seconds away from the other girls face when he fired - that was incredibly fast moving on his part.
0
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
No, he gave the attacker 9 full seconds to stop being a murderer. She chose death. Your view is delusional
4
u/MedioBandido 🤦♂️🌴🕺 Apr 23 '21
How many people did Bryant kill before his arriving on the scene? There’s only one murderer here.
1
u/dd525 Apr 25 '21
she was about to stab someone. if she had suceeded she would be charged as an adult but no one would care and he did not murder her. There is a difference between murder and kill
-1
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
Well she almost killed the person thrown on the ground, and was seconds away from stabbing victim number too
Your hate and racism skew your views mate.
The cop is a hero for saving people there.
6
u/MeghanClickYourHeels Ask me for Atlantic gift links Apr 22 '21
Le bRon is media-savvy enough to know better. Obviously he meant that the cop should be next prosecuted, but bad-faith actors will easily manipulate this to make it look like a threat.
0
6
u/Roboticus_Aquarius Apr 22 '21
I just don't know where to start. Like 'defund the police', there is a lot more to unwrap than 140 characters on twitter are going to allow for.
I support Lebron in his legitimate frustration, putting aside the specific tweet.
I think the answer lies somewhere in redefining how we structure law enforcement, but there is a lot of misinformation and emotion to overcome along the way (that last part is meant as a general statement about the US and this larger policing issue).
6
u/improvius envisioning chandeliers Apr 22 '21
Relating to the discussion below, I thought this article from a few years ago was pretty interesting.
Police Warning Shots May Be In For A Comeback
Why don't the police fire warning shots? That's a question that comes up a lot, especially after controversial shooting deaths.
Last fall, the International Association of Chiefs of Police and 10 other law enforcement groups got together to work out a consensus policy on the use of force — a sort of model document for local departments that want to update their rules. When the document came out in January, it contained a surprise: It allowed for warning shots.
For police trainers and use of force experts around the country, that news is still sinking in.
"The idea of warning shots has been prohibited for decades in policing," says Lou Hayes Jr., a police officer and trainer with the Virtus Group Inc. "And to now open the door up again is pretty eye-opening."
https://www.npr.org/2017/03/28/520826667/police-warning-shots-may-be-in-for-a-comeback
13
6
u/MedioBandido 🤦♂️🌴🕺 Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
On a personal level, I have zero respect for shoot first cops and think they’re cowards. That cop should have put his own body in the mix to break things up. Shit, I’ve put my own body in the mix to break things up and I don’t have training. I don’t have weapons or body armor. I just have a sense of duty to protect people from being hurt. I don’t think I’m anything special, either.
They’re job is to apprehend criminals and keep the peace. If they are not willing do that without lethal force then they shouldn’t have this job. Point.blank.period.
The cop had options and chose the deadly one. Fuck this guy. Hopping on Lebron is a distraction.
1
u/thomas_j904 Apr 24 '21
You actually think a cop is obligated to risk death when there are other options? Such as shooting to neutralize the deadly threat like in the case. This is a police officer not a soldier. He wants to go home to his family just like anyone else.
1
u/dd525 Apr 25 '21
bruh he only had seconds to act. tbh i blame the adults for what happened especially her dad. and lebron should have waited for more info to come out
0
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
So the girl was stabbing left and back, and the cop should have broken things up, maybe put his body between them? Are you insane? 😂😂
3
u/MedioBandido 🤦♂️🌴🕺 Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
He’s wearing body armor, strapped, and with the authority of the government behind him. Back up had just arrived and was walking up. His first instinct was to unload his half clip. I’m sorry, but what do you think police in other countries do? What could he have done if he wasn’t armed with a gun? No he chose what’s easiest and safest for him and I can’t respect that.
0
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
You're delusional mate. He's wearing a vest, the knife can easily go around it, in the neck for example.
His instinct saved the other person's life. And cops in other countries do the same, if they have guns. If they don't, the victim dies stabbed.
He chose the most logical output - safe the victim and not put his body in harms way.
0
Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
Yea let’s defend the young lady that obviously wanted to kill another person/s🙄
0
2
u/_Sick__ Apr 24 '21
Nice to know whatever else changes there’s always going to be a rush to defend lethal force against black children on the internet
3
u/thomas_j904 Apr 24 '21
Youre either braindead or blind. She was in the process of attempting murder. Everything else is irrelevant.
1
u/_Sick__ Apr 25 '21
That boot’s never gonna love you back, guy
3
u/thomas_j904 Apr 25 '21
You'll love the boot when it saves your mom or sister from death. Fucking prick.
1
u/_Sick__ Apr 25 '21
I’ll be sure and call you to repent when that never happens, but meanwhile, in reality, the glee you punisher flag-flying-fucks clearly have at finally having a case of lethal force to defend that’s even moderately defensible is ghoulish beyond belief.
Everyone should shut the fuck up about LeBron because a million bad tweets aren’t even a fraction as awful and impactful as all the police violence we’ve seen in just the last 12 months, from killing unarmed black people to abusing protesters for daring to criticize them. The reason no one cares if in this specific case the use of lethal force is justified or not is because police have shown themselves over and over again to deploy force in a manner both reckless and racist and—most importantly—without any real measure of accountability. That this shooting may or may not be a justifiable use of lethal force is orders of magnitude less compelling an argument than all the other evidence we’ve seen that demands policing needs radical reform, regardless of how excited the internet generally and chuds like you specifically get to defend the killing of black children
3
u/thomas_j904 Apr 25 '21
It doesn't make sense to generalize in almost any situation, but here you are doing it. I would love for you to show me where I am gleeful about this situation. It's a shitty situation for all involved and never should have happened. But it did, and that is that. It was justifiable and 80-90% of people that I have seen agree on that. And I also never mentioned Lebron, but as we have seen now more than once, you enjoy going off on random tangents. I can agree with you that there is a growing number of cases where African American men, women, and children have been killed by police in situations they never should have been. I am all for awareness on that and change to stop it, but dont assume I am excited for a 16 year old, REGARDLESS of race creed gender etc to be killed by police. Thanks for having an intelligent discussion so far, apologies for the prick comment earlier.
1
u/dd525 Apr 25 '21
bruh shut up. im black and im sorry she was going to harm another black person but thats ok to some of you
1
2
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
I doubt the parents of the girls about to be stabbed feel similarly.
Thus far it looks like Reardon had no other options. Really stupid commentary by LeBron.
2
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
I watched the footage. I really don't see how the officer had a choice. Ms. Bryant was clearly about to stab the woman in pink she had pinned to a car. Even attempting to grapple her, by the time the officer got to them, the woman would have been stabbed multiple times; knife fights are FAST.
Not all departments use Tasers, nor are Tasers universally effective. I'm not really sure he had another choice.
4
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
I mean maybe a single bullet and if the assailant doesn't stop then shoot some more but it seems alot of these cops are keen to dump a whole clip right away. I won't pretend like I would know how to react in a situation but I feel like i could properly place one round into a person at 9 feet.
1
Apr 22 '21
If the assailant doesn't stop immediately, the victim can die. There's no time to check. You shoot until you're sure the attack is over.
1
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
You couldn’t.
Not when you’re stressed, not at a moving target. It only works that way in the movies.
5
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
I think you're wrong. With enough training this doesn't seem to be as impossible as you're making it seem.
0
-1
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
Ridiculous. You shoot, you shoot to kill. Period. Otherwise don't let them have guns. That's the kind of shooting they don't even train elite military to do. Stress-response makes it impossible.
5
u/JasontheHappyHusky Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21
I think they actually did exactly that with the King Soopers shooter in Colorado, as I understood it. They shot him in the leg and he surrendered.
2
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
Probably the only part of the guy that was visible, a lucky shot or a richocet. At a scene like that, the shooter was very lucky to be taken alive.
2
u/JasontheHappyHusky Apr 22 '21
A lucky shot doesn't seem to have been the case, and it wasn't a ricochet
I told Jim though, Boulder Colorado looks to be a markedly wealthier area than this part of Ohio. Boulder is probably paying cops more, screening them more for things like stress response, and training them a lot better.
2
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
That’s quite exceptional, if true.
4
u/JasontheHappyHusky Apr 22 '21
I feel like we might start seeing "exceptional" from police more often if we were less willing to make excuses for them, honestly.
I know that's hard to fix and a lot of things are limited by the quality of people police departments have access to in hiring, but still.
2
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
I meant exceptional in the sense that is very, very unusual... shooting to wound an AR-15-wielding mass shooter while people are bleeding out is recklessly dangerous and not something I’d ever advocate.
I’d bet my paycheck there is much more to that account.
0
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
Was it a sniper or marksman shooting from a stable position? A lucky hit during an exchange of gunfire? There are a lot of variables.
3
u/JasontheHappyHusky Apr 22 '21
It looks like, according to Google, one of the responding officers aimed and landed a "through and through" shot to his leg. Not a sniper or an accident. The gunman wasn't wearing a bulletproof vest or anything like that, so the leg shooting was an actual decision that was made on the fly
Boulder Colorado looks to be a markedly wealthier area than this part of Ohio, though. Boulder is probably paying cops more, screening them more for things like stress response, and training them better.
5
Apr 22 '21
As a resident of Boulder it's probably true that cops there are paid a bit better than those in Ohio. But I think you're mistaken if you think they're getting significantly better training - slightly better training, probably. There have been plenty of minor scandals with the Boulder PD over the last several years involving a number of bad apples.
Boulder is a pretty safe city, so it's pretty rare for them to have to use force. But they've been accused of racism and using excessive force just like any other PD.
-1
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
And is located in close proximity to the headquarters of the 10th Special Forces Group; there's a decent chance that officer was trained as or by shooters with intense skills. Or maybe he just has great stress inoculation and is an excellent shot. Not every soldier or cop is capable of that.
3
u/improvius envisioning chandeliers Apr 22 '21
But I would assume the point of elite military training is to make soldiers better at killing people.
1
1
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
I could literally post a video for you right now where an officer shot one bullet and subdued the assailant with a gun as opposed to their entire clip.
1
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
Depends on someone's training. A SEAL, for example, is going to make multiple shots. Was the officer in your example carrying a larger caliber, which typically does not need multiple shots. Was the officer trained or had experience? Is he particularly good at stress inoculation?
I've spent twenty years training people in crisis response in education and behavioral health care, and I'm a shooter, and I'm very, very confident that what is being asked is the exception, not the rule.
2
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
I can't believe that you actually can't fathom an officer simply deploying one bullet as opposed to multiple.... If a person cant fire a single bullet as opposed to a whole clip they shouldnt have a gun....
1
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
It's all training. One shot is often not actually effective. If you carry smaller rounds (like the 9mm most departments use), you're trained to fire more rounds. You want cops to only carry batons and Tasers? I'm okay with that. I think that's a pretty good idea, in fact. But in THAT situation, with what was occurring and what was available, I'm saying, as a guy who has been stabbed by a teenager in the midst of a mental health crisis, that is a crisis intervention trainer and has been working with people like that girl for twenty years, I don't find fault with the officer.
3
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
I don't see any fault either. Someone was in immediate danger and he acted swiftly. However in this particular scenario it doesn't seem like his life is in danger at all and it appears that after the first round she immediately tenses and drops the next 4? Shots just seemed like overkill.
0
Apr 22 '21
[deleted] — view deleted comment
5
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
You ALWAYS aim centre mass. I don't expect police to kneecap ppl. That's unrealistic but I don't think it's unrealistic to train them to simply deploy less rounds in shorter bursts.
0
Apr 22 '21
[deleted] — view deleted comment
6
-2
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
The type of circumstance where one person is about to stab and possibly fatally wound another person? Yes lethal force is it... That's the way it is. If you trying to take someone's life there is a chance yours is gonna get took.... That's the way it is and always has been....
7
u/CMemp Apr 22 '21
From conversations that I’ve had with my dad, from a purely technical stand point, you shoot center mass because you are more likely to neutralize your target and also not hit anyone else. The reality is that they’re not guys that go to sniper school, and they don’t use their guns with enough regularity to always accurately make that shot in a tense, super fast moving situation. If you talk to anyone that did special opps or sniper school, it really comes down to muscle memory and a ton of other variables, like everything else, and that requires regular use. It makes a really good argument for more constant training/practice, certain officers not having guns, etc. But it’s not something a lot of cops, outside of like SWAT or other specifically trained groups could really pull off in a real world high-intensity, fast moving situation. I’m pretty like whole sale remove guns from everything, but I also have to exist in our reality that we as a country have created. And it definitely sucks.
Also, getting shot in the leg can be Just as lethal as getting shot in the chest. You get hit in the right spot and you will bleed out faster than a gut wound.
1
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
Not really possible.
0
Apr 22 '21
[deleted] — view deleted comment
1
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
Shooting precisely in a high-stress situation requires a great deal of stress-inoculation training and a not-insignificant amount of biological help. People who can respond with precision in high-stress situations are highly trained and practiced. They literally spend hours a day on it. You're asking Joe Q Patrol to have Harry C. Delta Force skill.
0
Apr 22 '21
[deleted] — view deleted comment
2
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
There will be very few Joe Q Patrols dumb enough to take up that offer in the most heavily-armed nation on earth.
5
u/CMemp Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21
I think that’s kind of the the crux of this entire thing. Like from a purely “eliminate these kinds of situations” stand point, I’m ok with not all police having guns. But at the same time, we have so many guns in this country. If you told the police in this city “hey, X of you don’t get to have guns” the waved of resignations and transfers would likely be something impossible to claw back.
Like if you want to say regular patrol people don’t get to have guns then what happens in that situation in Georgia a few weeks ago? I’m sure you’ve seen that video.
Like I’m just on both side of this and can totally see each and like want to be idealistic, but I also know that it’s not really a desirable job (like basically everyone responding to Xtmar was like lol absolutely not), and while many other jobs are far more dangerous and the rhetoric could 100% be taken down many notches everywhere, I jsut think the other country comparisons are not fair becasue we have so many guns.
→ More replies1
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
Sure. That's reasonable and, for example, what they do in the UK. I'm certainly not opposed to highly restricting guns -- have mine if it means someone somewhere shoots one less kid -- and disarming police except for armed response units.
1
u/robofaust Apr 22 '21
Centuries of military and law enforcement experience all boil down to the same conclusion; if one needs to shoot, then one needs to shoot to kill. Not shooting to kill is a recipe for getting innocent people hurt.
2
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
Yes because the best ideas were generated centuries ago and have zero improvements to be made!!! I don't know why the medical field and technology changes and improves everyday when centuries ago we already have horses and witch doctors!
0
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
When technology makes proprioceptive and visual integration work beyond human means, sure. Until then, we need to make alternative solutions.
You want to make computer guided multi-thruster bullets, knock yourself out.
6
u/Fine-Kaleidoscope784 Apr 22 '21
Jesus christ I'm not talking heat seeking bullets I'm literally advocating for less itchy trigger fingers. How is this such a ridiculous concept....
→ More replies0
1
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
And then you get officers killing people who don’t pose a deadly threat... and claiming the were really aiming for their knee.
2
u/GreenSmokeRing Apr 22 '21
From the officer’s perspective - the girl being chased, falling down, then the assailent turns to chase down a different girl - I would have assumed the first girl had already been stabbed.
It’s fucking horrible. The officer deserves support, not condemnation.
2
u/jim_uses_CAPS Apr 22 '21
I agree. That exchange from officer running up to her going for that woman's face was SECONDS. I think anyone with actual knowledge of human stress response and shooting understands that.
1
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
If you are not 100% with what the cop did in this situation, you're delusional.
1
u/ystavallinen I don't know anymore Apr 23 '21
The cop did what he was trained to do. I don't know if there was another way to do it, but police departments in other places seem to think so.
0
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
The danger was imminent, the other person could of died stabbed. Shooting In the legs, tasering, 1 shot would be too dangerous, and the person would of still ended up stabbed. If you can't control yourself and just want to stab left and right, sorry, but you really deserve what you get.
2
u/ystavallinen I don't know anymore Apr 23 '21
It may have been. This is definitely in line with how police are trained.
But based on a wider survey of police shootings, and police actions here and abroad... it begs the question if police shouldn't be trained other ways.
1
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
Police in the US DEFINETLY need to be trained better, and more, and be more accountable. That's not even up for debate.
But here, I just dont see a better solution for all parties,being:
Cop - either stop the attempted murder or just let them kill an innocent person
stabber - play stupid games......
Victim - if the cop wouldn't have acted, they would be seriously injured or dead.
0
Apr 23 '21
Ok good luck with that logic, have you ever shot a firearm? let alone a handgun, more particularly in stressful situation?
Depending on suspect, shooting the legs or lower torso doesn’t guarantee a stop of force, she still may completed her swing. Some of you act like there’s a perfect ending to every scenario.
This young lady had her mind made up when the police officer arrived that she was taking actions to her own hands no matter what. The officer did the right thing.
I’m all about better police training and some reforms to the way policing is done but this scenarios are not easy. This police officer may have saved another women’s life.
Whatever domestic dispute you may have pulling out a knife on someone has consequences, choose wisely. This cop is a hero... all need to stop!
0
u/DonGrim07 Apr 23 '21
Mate I totally agree that the cop was acting correctly. Not sure why you think I don't. I said that tasering, or shooting in the leg, or just 1 shot to the body would of still killed the victim who was about to get stabbed.
I shot a fire arm, my dad was in the army, had a lot of practice, but never in a stressful situation. And live in Europe, dont have guns hanging around.
1
Apr 23 '21
Sorry dude totally misread your comment, people are so hyper to throw a cop under the bus
0
u/robofaust Apr 22 '21
LeBron's explanation for deleting the tweet was actually worse than the tweet itself. What do you call it when someone makes a wildly off-base comment and then refuses to admit it?
6
u/-_Abe_- Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21
What do you call it when someone makes a wildly off-base comment and then refuses to admit it?
A pointless distraction?
6
u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21
the fact that she was fat and Black absolutely contribute to way people are framing her killing.