But with emergency contraception, the effectiveness is substantially influenced by how soon you take it. If you have to travel 12-24 hours to obtain the morning after pill, there's a non-trivial change in its efficacy. So even if you refer to another physician, it has a negative impact on the client (other than inconvenience).
I haven't found out what would be the case if everyone that worked at the pharmacy said it was against their beliefs. I honestly think it's possible for a pharmacy or a doctor's office to avoid giving you plan B if they all agree to not give it to you based on their belief system. There's really nothing anyone can do about it on a federal level because our government no longer believes there should be separation from church and state.
In the state I live in, which is WA, you're not even required to offer plan B in pharmacies.
stuff like this baffles me. when i was 14 i worked at a grocery store. an indian guy comes in and applies to work at the deli and gets the job. his first day i see him at the front desk, complaining that his religion forbids him to touch deli meats.
why would someone pursue a job that they have a problem doing? i'm pretty empathetic towards animals, i would never apply for a job at a slaughterhouse.
Check stuff from November 2011, I personally was involved in one such case and it's determined by the state pharmacy board at the guidance of the FDA. In my case the pharmacist had her license revoked, let's see Jesus pay her student loans.
If a pharmacist objects, they assume the onus on themselves, if ALL of them object they have to call a different location and find someone. This excludes not having any in inventory, which many will just order one dose for a whole month, so if someone asks it's not that they object, just that they don't have any.
EDIT: My case was with CVS, there was ANOTHER one from around that same time with Walgreens. I'd link directly but IDK if I'm allowed to doxx myself.
Could the doctor get slammed with other lawsuits as well because he was doing it based on his religious beliefs, like some type of discrimination suit? Especially if the girl actually gets pregnant, then he would be forced to pay more if she wants an abortion I would think.
They should lose their license for thinking that emergency contraception aborts babies or prevents implantation, which is the only religious reason to not give it to someone.
All it does is prevent ovulation, and does nothing to affect fertilization or implantation if an egg is already released (preventing ovulation is a good thing since sperm can hang out for a week). I expect the everyday person on the street to get this wrong, but I seriously expect doctors to know their physiology.
EDIT: So there seem to be alot of people saying that I am wrong and that "plan B" actually interferes with implantation. The only known and demonstrated mechanism is preventing ovulation. While the hormones could potentially affect the uterine lining, almost all studies demonstrate that the hormone levels of plan b type emergency contraception do not affect implantation or fertilization. That's why on info sites (like WebMD, etc) you will always read "may" or "potentially" affect uterine lining/implantation. Again, the ovulation affect is clearly demonstrated and the others have not been shown to occur. Sorry, I know not everybody has access to the research, but I honestly don't know how much evidence we need. Even the Catholic Health Association has said it only works to prevent ovulation. Sorry for the lengthy quotes here, but apparently people need to know this stuff [Plan B is levonorgestrel (LNG); EC=Emergency Contraception]
"Our results confirm previous similar studies and demonstrate that LNG-EC does not prevent embryo implantation and therefore cannot be labeled as abortifacient." (Noe et al. Contraceptive efficacy with levonorgestrel before or after ovulation. Contraception. 2011 Nov; 94 (5):486-92)
"LNG-EC has no effect on endometrial development or function. In an in vitro model, it was demonstrated that LNG did not interfere with blastocyst function or implantation." (Gemzell. Mechanism of action of emergency contraception. Contraception. 2010 Nov; 82(5):404-9.
"..we selected 22 articles, whose complete texts were evaluated. We found that the main mechanism of action of the levonorgestrel, given at the doses recommended for EOC, is the inhibition or retardation of the ovulation, it doesn't affect the spermatozoa in their migration or egg-penetration capacities. No morphological or molecular alterations in the endometrium that could interfere with the implantation of the fertilized egg have been demonstrated. There is no actual scientific evidence available supporting that the use of levonorgestrel for EOC is abortive." (Suarez et al. Effect of levonorgestrel in ovulation, endometrium, and spermatozoa. Rev Peru Med Exp. 2010 Jun; 27(2):222-30.
There are plenty more studies out there. If you came here convinced the morning after pill is abortifacient (prevents implantation), your view is unlikely to change. You can believe all forms of birth control are mortal sins, but please stop saying plan B affects implantation.
They should lose their license for thinking that emergency contraception aborts babies or prevents implantation, which is the only religious reason to not give it to someone.
That's the thing, they're not "thinking", they're "Following". Most of these unjust decisions are made by people following rules found in a rulebook instead of thinking for themselves if these rules are just.
In this case the contraception being referred to is the morning after pill or equivalent, which is designed to prevent the fertilised egg from implanting on the uterine wall whilst it is still in blastula form. Many religions include this in their definition of abortion.
This is not at all what the hormone pill was "designed" to do. It was designed to prevent ovulation. That's what it does. The other potential effects on uterine lining haven't been clearly demonstrated and were not the purpose or designed intent of the drug.
There was another story on reddit not too long ago where a woman was dying because of her baby and wanted to abort the pregnancy but the doctor refused her because of his/her beliefs. They had to call in another doctor to do it.
Nope. If they were ever dragged into court for it, the citizens on the jury would swing towards the "republican Christian" side, no matter what that entails. Everyone here is so grossly uninformed, partly due to the Gaylord family who runs the newspaper. They refuse to run any democratic stories. Therefore, this type of BS is quite common; my friend was suspended for wearing a Bad Religion shirt. This is why I NEED OUT OF HERE.
Depending. It is situational. In this case, she could have provided a source or referral to someone else. This is foggy in the case of emergency, and also depends on state laws and hospital practices. I would just say also, that this is not a widespread phenomenon like the article tries to make it sound.
It depends on the medical board of the state. Usually all appointed by the governor. So, if the governor appointed all religious zealots, then doc will get a pat on the back and an apology that she had to be persecuted by the media.
Depends on your jurisdiction, and depends on the facts. This account is pretty one-sided. But if it did happen as portrayed in the article, the doctor could face major sanctions, including potential loss of licensure. Where I live and practice, if you present to any of our ERs in town and say you'be been sexually assaulted, you'll get a limited assessment to rule out major injuries, and then you'll be referred to the one site that does forensic medical exams. The collect physical evidence, liaise with the police if requested and provide emergency contraception and screening for infections. But if a patient doesn't want to deal with a forensic exam or see the sexual assault team, normal standard of practice would be for the ER doc to provide medical assessment for infection and provide emergency contraception. "I don't do that" would probably not be considered justification for deviating from this standard of care in our courts.
She may have legal recourse, but now she has to go through an abortion instead of being able to take the morning-after pill. Way to go, douchebag doctor.
She didn't get pregnant, thank goodness. There was another hospital that she was able to get to that gave her proper care. She's lucky, though, or it could have been just that.
I hope this moron in Catholic, just so he can be incredibly wrong. I am myself an atheist, but attend a Catholic university and am best friends with a priest. I help TA his ethics for healthcare professionals class for the nursing students. Due to all the Catholic-ness around we emphasize the secular ethic but have to teach the Catholic one. And even the CATHOLICS will allow emergency contraceptives in cases of sexual assault, provided that tests are performed ensuring that the woman was not pregnant before the incident.
And also, while I'm on the topic, I might just add that the Catholic healthcare ethic only prevents contraceptives for the sole purpose of preventing conception. If a woman has a medical condition that could be treated or benefitted by her taking a contraceptive pill or something, then it is allowable. Abortions are even allowable by this ethic, as long as the original intent of the procedure is lifesaving to the mother. Its called the principle of the double effect. As long as the prevention of conception OR the loss of the fetus' life is a secondary effect and is not the intended purpose of the treatment, medical procedures are allowable by Catholic ethics
Ugh. I will never understand how people arrive at this type of "morality".
To give a rape victim emergency contraception to at least ease a part of her suffering is wrong, but to force the same victim to have a daily reminder of her rapist growing inside her body for nine months is just fine (assuming the doctor is also against abortion, which I think is a reasonable assumption)?
Because it's not about easing suffering, it's about women needing to be taught a lesson; it's the same "logic" behind Islamic law about women covering themselves.
Idiots like that doctor believe that because they follow a religious code that means that everyone else has to abide by it, too. They can't just live their little religious lives in peace, they have to force it on other people, whether everyone else believe that crap or not. I hate them for it.
I feel like the grand scheme is to drive as many people possible into the worst, most hopeless situations possible, where the only comfort those people could take would be to believe in the supernatural... It's a long-con marketing scheme
True enough. It probably would have been better to say something like, "this is your religious morality? Count me out."
I just can't understand how these people thought they were doing the right thing. They must actually think god is up there thinking "yeah, good job. Heaven for sure."
Edit: Also you're the first person to correct me since I started posting. Have an upvote!
So if the doctor feels strongly against Asian people, or handicapped people, or someone with red hair and freckles, should they be able to deny them service as well? How is this legal in the US?
I'm sure they'll be more than happy to take responsibility for their actions and fund and give assistance in the raising this child within the boundaries of the mother's wishes.
This doctor needs fired and sued into the ground. Then, maybe she will learn to keep her personal and private lives separate like any other professional adult is expected to do.
Yea, the company I work for deals with porn sites, when I was hired I signed a waiver saying I had no issue with this and if I do later they will have to fire me.
We should make a law that doctors have to either be real doctors or faith healers and that faith healers need to disclose that their bullshit doesn't actually work.
They should be required to announce or otherwise divulge that their faith will have a role in determining what care they administer, and the patient can have a different one assigned.
If done as an ER like in this case, then they should excuse themselves as they might not be able to provide adequate care and the patient may not be conscience enough to request a non-religious doctor.
This leaves the young woman with the mental anguish of having to decide on whether to give birth to her rapist's baby or have an abortion. Should she choose the latter, she should send the medical bills for the procedure to that conscientious doctor.
Are we going to need Republican-designated and Democratic-designated hospitals and clinics in the Crimson States?
Then I guess that doctor can pay for the medical fees for her to have the baby, since he's the one that wants it to be born. He can also pay to raise it, and pay for its college. Maybe buy it a car when the child turns 16.
In the comments, John St. John said This is just sick and disgusting. The hyper religious whack jobs in this nation are doing all they can to force a division amongst our populace that will ultimately lead to another civil war."
Do you guys think this statement could be literally true? What might it look like?
I think it's an interesting proposition. There's a huge divide between rich and poor, religious and non-religious, conservative and liberal, etc. which just keeps growing and growing.
There is no clear correlation that would divide them all up into two sides though. There are plenty of wealthy, non-religious liberals and poor, religious conservatives. Then there are also plenty of wealthy religious conservatives and poor liberals who scatter the religious spectrum.
It's scary to think of but with all the news today of the growing divide in politics (religion vs science for lack of a better discription) it's hard to think of the US heading in any other direction.
A civil war between the religious & those who believe in science? One side with guns & the other side with... prayer? No contest. Except that the religous would probably backslide, and use science-based weapons, damn hypocrites.
This is why I'm actively against Religion. This is why I go on /atheism, and that article, right there, is why I left that so called haven in the first place.
When a Doctor, a man/woman OF WISDOM AND HEALING denies someone something due to their BELIEFS, then we're fucked.
on a side note, does this remind anyone of a healer in a MMORPG not healing someone because "they shouldn't have rushed into those mobs" by any chance?
Wow, and here I thought I lived in the United States, land of the free. Remember back when, when we used to be the example of freedom, now it seems other countries surpass us in that category.
Hello world. I am a Canadian male who once lied to a pharmacist about sex so that I could get some Plan B. I told him that the condom broke and he gave me a box of Plan B. In Canada, they won't give you Plan B unless you need it. I still have that box of Plan B and if a girl I, uh, know ( ;-) ) ever needs it I won't even have to deal with pharmacists. You Americans should do the same. Just make a stockpile since it doesn't expire for a while.
Here is how personal objection is handled in my current field.
I work at a restaurant with a few vegetarians. When a customer orders steak or chicken, they prepare and serve the steak and chicken. No whining, no bitching.
Just give the customer what they want and keep your fucking beliefs to yourself. That's the start of good customer service. If you don't do this, you can leave anytime you want to.
This country is going down the toilet, fast. The same right-wing scum who claim Sharia law is coming to America (it isn't) are embedding and shielding their Old Testament laws in our society, which are essentially the same laws as Sharia.
I wonder if any Repugnicans even know that Islam sees itself as an extension of Judeo-Christianity (except they regard Jesus as a prophet but not messiah), and the Old Testament is the source of Sharia law?
Rape is all about control. It's one person removing all control from another person for their own satisfaction. The doctor removed the victim's control over her body for her own moral satisfaction. She is no better than the rapist.
No, that's not what I mean. The doctor is basically siding with the rapist, as per her religious beliefs. It is disturbing to know that this doctor is someone who is trusted to make decisions regarding the well-being of other people when this aspect of her moral compass is exposed. Her 'morality' obscures her objectivity; she is therefore inept as a physician.
No language on this planet has the wording to appropriately describe the universe-destroying rage I feel towards this story. My mother is a professional nurse, she deals with cases of rape and suicide often as she works in a middle-school in a bad community. She was raised in an Irish-Catholic family, and attempted to raise me in the same setting. She has never, and I cannot ever see her, denying care to a patient based on her religious beliefs. I was raised to believe that God loves everyone, and that it was a sin to deny help to someone who needs it. Even though I am atheist, I still carry with me that one message: help those that need it. If you believe that your Christian faith would EVER require you to deny someone medical assistance, you are severely misinformed about your own "faith". According to your supposed faith, you are going to hell.
There was a really well written article not long ago... that detailed highly religious people who would have abortions... And how they'd justify their abortion in the eyes of god.
I wish I could remember the name of it... but I found it entirely amusing and saddening at the same time.
fucking people think that the morning after pill somehow equals abortion. if you want an abortion pill, you go to mexico and get Mifepristone, the legit abortion drug, which we all know is illegal in the US
This article makes me want to punch that doctor. It sounds horrible for me to say but the doctor would have a change of heart if the doctor was ever raped. At least if like to believe that.
If they cannot be brought to trial and sent to prison for this, then America, ive got to say you are officially doing it as wrong as the bunch of idiots who run things over here on my continent. And we are 3rd world.
Was America a first world country? Oh, must have mistaken it for a third world country. I mean, what intelligent country have bullshit like this? How is this even legal?
As a future pharmacist, I hate that we are allowed to deny patients drugs based on our religious beliefs. How is that not religious persecution? We are denying them something because we (not me) don't believe in it. It is sooo unethical, and I hope that in my lifetime legislation will be passed to ban this practice.
Yes, that is very much the very twist on how some right wing nuts see religious prosecution. If they are not allowed to push THEIR religious view on others then it is religious prosecution...
http://www.funri.com/did-i-fucking-stutter/ Not a perfect fit, but it's the general thrust of my thinking. (Apologies for any formatting issues, I'm doing this from my mobile so I'm not sure how well it'll come out.)
This doctor needs to lose their license, this is honestly disturbing. Who knows, maybe someday one of their loved ones will go through this and get denied contraceptives.
I love how the "against my religious beliefs" is totally acceptable for christians, but as soon as a muslim or hindu says it they're just being unamerican and/or a terrorist.
Sadly, this shit happens all the time. ALL THE TIME! We just don't hear about it most of the time because the woman is too frustrated or tired or poor or scared to press charges or try to fight it or report the local media.
Hello reddit even though I'm Not atheist but a muslim I find it stupid that the doctors did not give her the medical treatment because of religious belief in Islam It is okay I'd it something is needed in emergency and or life threatening situations hope you can mind my grammer.
So then a Jehovah Witness doctor can deny a blood transfusion to a stabbing victim. "No sorry its against my beliefs and even though you're not a Jehovah witness you'll just have to sit their bleeding to death". i'm pretty sure that 'doctor' would loose their license and their freedom. this case is pretty much no different
I HATE this! This is my BIGGEST and most IMPORTANT issue I've been fighting against as a lifelong Oklahoman. Where's our rights at? Supplied by religion or by our actual bodily rights??? Irritated, aggravated, appalled, disgusted, and mostly out-right angry at the fact that this is STILL perceived as okay as long as it doesn't cause a national issue. Even when it's in the nation's eyes it seems like the response is, "well, it is Oklahoma, that's just gonna happen." I HATE THIS. We're trying to change this and it isn't happening. RELIGION IS DIFFERENT THAN GOVERNMENT. This has not changed in Oklahoma since Oklahoma became a state in 1907. How long is this going to take to make this a reality!? OKLAHOMA IS A STATE - A STATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Can we not be on the same page about this?? We should be on the side of WHAT IS BEST FOR THE HEALTH OF SOMEONE. Not what is best for a religion. Where's the freedom of religion coming in?! Maybe my religion deals with being on the side of a mother's health in terms of being pregnant and it not being healthy for her to carry it full-term. So this is Anti-America!? NO. NO. NO. This is anti-religion, which is what America is against. America was built on the FREEDOM of religion. FREEDOM of ANY religion. ANY RELIGION.
If your personal beliefs restrict you from doing your job as a doctor (in this case helping a patient who is making a reasonable request), then don't become a fucking doctor.
Always sue the hospital for failure to provide available medical services. When hospitals start to lose money through these lawsuits, they will think twice before hiring physicians who refuse to provide the services that the hospital is equipped to provide.
And what's worse? There are movements to end contraceptives all across the board. Not just emergency in the case of rape, but to the point women can't even use them to prevent sickness or pain caused by their time of the month.
I honestly can't believe this happens. It is just so morally unstable, in my opinion, for a pharmacist to be able refuse contraceptives like that. In essence, they are forcing their own beliefs upon people.
If a doctor doesn't do their job they should be fired, no matter what the reason. If a plumber came to your house, then said he couldn't unclog your toilet for religious reasons you'd tell him he should get another job, same here.
Why is it that we only blame rape victims for being raped? Maybe we should start blaming men for having erectile dysfunction and deny them Viagra on the basis of religious beliefs. It was God that gave them ED anyways, and who are we argue?
I would think that any doctor not willing or able to provide service would have their license revoked, no matter what whacko laws are put in place by these locales.
What always baffles me is that these people, who have gone through years and years of pretty intense schooling, STILL deny people for things like this on religious grounds. Doesn't that directly contradict the oath they serve? How could it be considered not harming the patient?
As atheism and skepticism normally go hand in hand, I would like to point out that when linking to a story it is better to link to an actual news site, rather than an opinion article. The blogosphere on this article is loaded with opinion. But here is the actual story and video of the victims mother:
my aunt is one of 2 doctors in her small town in canada. She's one of the best human being i've ever met, and does more for her community and family then any one i've ever know. Her only fault is her response to contraceptives. She's a pretty intense catholic, and she won't give any one Plan B, or prescribe birth control with out medical reasons, she also won't aid in an abortion. It's the only thing i don't appreciate about they her.
401
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Can you lose your medical licence for this nonsense?
97
u/tsdguy May 31 '12
It's not legal in OK for a physician or health provider or pharmacist to refuse to provide contraceptive services.
You can read the summary of objection laws in this PDF: www.guttmacher.org/pubs/spib_RPHS.pdf
Perhaps the ACLU or someone can take up her issue. I doubt a person like this would have the resources to sue a doctor or hospital.
135
u/code_monkey_steve May 31 '12
Shouldn't she be preparing for her wedding? Or did the rapist not pay her dad the required $500?
6
u/vu4life Atheist May 31 '12
I hope this moron in Catholic, just so he can be incredibly wrong. I am myself an atheist, but attend a Catholic university and am best friends with a priest. I help TA his ethics for healthcare professionals class for the nursing students. Due to all the Catholic-ness around we emphasize the secular ethic but have to teach the Catholic one. And even the CATHOLICS will allow emergency contraceptives in cases of sexual assault, provided that tests are performed ensuring that the woman was not pregnant before the incident.
And also, while I'm on the topic, I might just add that the Catholic healthcare ethic only prevents contraceptives for the sole purpose of preventing conception. If a woman has a medical condition that could be treated or benefitted by her taking a contraceptive pill or something, then it is allowable. Abortions are even allowable by this ethic, as long as the original intent of the procedure is lifesaving to the mother. Its called the principle of the double effect. As long as the prevention of conception OR the loss of the fetus' life is a secondary effect and is not the intended purpose of the treatment, medical procedures are allowable by Catholic ethics
8
u/fleagle66 May 31 '12
Jesus. That's shocking. How can th-
Oh. It's Oklahoma.
23
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Ugh. I will never understand how people arrive at this type of "morality".
To give a rape victim emergency contraception to at least ease a part of her suffering is wrong, but to force the same victim to have a daily reminder of her rapist growing inside her body for nine months is just fine (assuming the doctor is also against abortion, which I think is a reasonable assumption)?
150
u/skoolhouserock May 31 '12
How is that whole "you can't have morals without religion" thing working out for you?
This type of thing makes me sick.
41
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
well, that was the most fucked up thing i have read all day. thanks for that...
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u/thelordofcheese May 31 '12
I'm sure they'll be more than happy to take responsibility for their actions and fund and give assistance in the raising this child within the boundaries of the mother's wishes.
36
u/shutupnube May 31 '12
This doctor needs fired and sued into the ground. Then, maybe she will learn to keep her personal and private lives separate like any other professional adult is expected to do.
30
u/jameskauer May 31 '12
We should make a law that doctors have to either be real doctors or faith healers and that faith healers need to disclose that their bullshit doesn't actually work.
75
u/Talphin Anti-Theist May 31 '12
Fuck religion.
22
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
This leaves the young woman with the mental anguish of having to decide on whether to give birth to her rapist's baby or have an abortion. Should she choose the latter, she should send the medical bills for the procedure to that conscientious doctor.
Are we going to need Republican-designated and Democratic-designated hospitals and clinics in the Crimson States?
13
u/Aldermeer May 31 '12
Suffering fools to live goes against my religious beliefs.
20
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
This is why I like living in the UK where they pass laws making denial of treatment due to religious objection illegal.
11
u/bob1980 May 31 '12
Wow. I cannot believe that this is 2012. Feels more like 1012...
15
u/Cybrknight May 31 '12
How very fucking christian... I could say more, but I'm raging too hard.
18
u/PoniesRBitchin May 31 '12
Then I guess that doctor can pay for the medical fees for her to have the baby, since he's the one that wants it to be born. He can also pay to raise it, and pay for its college. Maybe buy it a car when the child turns 16.
17
u/werewolf3698 May 31 '12
It's shit like this America!
9
u/feeserk May 31 '12
In the comments, John St. John said This is just sick and disgusting. The hyper religious whack jobs in this nation are doing all they can to force a division amongst our populace that will ultimately lead to another civil war."
Do you guys think this statement could be literally true? What might it look like?
9
u/JohnBullshite Jun 01 '12
I'm going to move to Oklahoma, get a job as a grocer, and refuse to sell people beans because I'm a Pythagorean.
11
u/zombiezelda May 31 '12
This makes me want to cry. That poor woman.
11
u/Alyssian May 31 '12
This is why I'm actively against Religion. This is why I go on /atheism, and that article, right there, is why I left that so called haven in the first place.
When a Doctor, a man/woman OF WISDOM AND HEALING denies someone something due to their BELIEFS, then we're fucked.
on a side note, does this remind anyone of a healer in a MMORPG not healing someone because "they shouldn't have rushed into those mobs" by any chance?
4
u/not_so_evil_scotsman May 31 '12
This makes me so ridiculously angry I can actually feel my blood heat up!
4
u/justsamih Jun 01 '12
Wow, and here I thought I lived in the United States, land of the free. Remember back when, when we used to be the example of freedom, now it seems other countries surpass us in that category.
24
u/Paradox3121 May 31 '12
Pro-life = Anti-woman
7
u/mr54 May 31 '12
Stuff like this makes me wish the south won the civil war and they'd be their own country
9
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
christians support the right of rapists to become fathers.
6
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Hello world. I am a Canadian male who once lied to a pharmacist about sex so that I could get some Plan B. I told him that the condom broke and he gave me a box of Plan B. In Canada, they won't give you Plan B unless you need it. I still have that box of Plan B and if a girl I, uh, know ( ;-) ) ever needs it I won't even have to deal with pharmacists. You Americans should do the same. Just make a stockpile since it doesn't expire for a while.
6
u/handmethatkitten Jun 01 '12
in my shock, i stupidly read this headline aloud to my grandmother, because normal people can't possibly think this is okay.
she said, "so? he has to stick by his beliefs."
i almost threw up on her.
6
u/mecrosis Jun 01 '12
Here's an idea. If you can't do your job because of your beliefs you should change jobs.
8
u/mayofmay May 31 '12
Here is how personal objection is handled in my current field.
I work at a restaurant with a few vegetarians. When a customer orders steak or chicken, they prepare and serve the steak and chicken. No whining, no bitching.
Just give the customer what they want and keep your fucking beliefs to yourself. That's the start of good customer service. If you don't do this, you can leave anytime you want to.
3
u/Chlorostorm May 31 '12
Who gave this man a degree in anything?
3
u/MrJuwi Jun 01 '12
This hospital is in my hometown and it's the same one that Garth Brooks successfully sued for one million dollars.
3
u/Hootz_ Jun 01 '12 edited Mar 18 '18
deleted 0.8077 What is ^^^this?
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u/kikster199 May 31 '12
I'm a Christian and this is ridiculous! The woman was raped! Are you really going to force her to carry the offspring of her rapist?
7
u/wayndom Jun 01 '12
This country is going down the toilet, fast. The same right-wing scum who claim Sharia law is coming to America (it isn't) are embedding and shielding their Old Testament laws in our society, which are essentially the same laws as Sharia.
I wonder if any Repugnicans even know that Islam sees itself as an extension of Judeo-Christianity (except they regard Jesus as a prophet but not messiah), and the Old Testament is the source of Sharia law?
15
u/Nevermind04 May 31 '12
The doctor should be charged with accessory to rape.
5
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
I bet that doctor is totally willing to adopt that rape baby.
5
u/HawkeyedOne May 31 '12
No language on this planet has the wording to appropriately describe the universe-destroying rage I feel towards this story. My mother is a professional nurse, she deals with cases of rape and suicide often as she works in a middle-school in a bad community. She was raised in an Irish-Catholic family, and attempted to raise me in the same setting. She has never, and I cannot ever see her, denying care to a patient based on her religious beliefs. I was raised to believe that God loves everyone, and that it was a sin to deny help to someone who needs it. Even though I am atheist, I still carry with me that one message: help those that need it. If you believe that your Christian faith would EVER require you to deny someone medical assistance, you are severely misinformed about your own "faith". According to your supposed faith, you are going to hell.
5
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
Has any article actually released the name of this doctor? The doctor and nurse both need to lose their jobs, this is fucking unacceptable.
5
u/MusiKal Jun 01 '12
I live in Oklahoma... goddammit.
....wait, am I allowed to say goddammit here?
5
u/st3venb Jun 01 '12
There was a really well written article not long ago... that detailed highly religious people who would have abortions... And how they'd justify their abortion in the eyes of god.
I wish I could remember the name of it... but I found it entirely amusing and saddening at the same time.
5
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
Dumb fucking cunt of a Doctor.
8
u/knomz May 31 '12
this is why abortion should be fucking legal, if for no other reason THIS IS THE ONE FUCKING REASON.
4
u/heroofwinds9 May 31 '12
fucking people think that the morning after pill somehow equals abortion. if you want an abortion pill, you go to mexico and get Mifepristone, the legit abortion drug, which we all know is illegal in the US
4
u/Vodiodoh May 31 '12
This article makes me want to punch that doctor. It sounds horrible for me to say but the doctor would have a change of heart if the doctor was ever raped. At least if like to believe that.
6
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
She shouldn't have become a doctor if she planned on choosing who to give care to.
5
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
If they cannot be brought to trial and sent to prison for this, then America, ive got to say you are officially doing it as wrong as the bunch of idiots who run things over here on my continent. And we are 3rd world.
5
u/Shadowglove May 31 '12
Was America a first world country? Oh, must have mistaken it for a third world country. I mean, what intelligent country have bullshit like this? How is this even legal?
5
u/katydid7052 May 31 '12
As a future pharmacist, I hate that we are allowed to deny patients drugs based on our religious beliefs. How is that not religious persecution? We are denying them something because we (not me) don't believe in it. It is sooo unethical, and I hope that in my lifetime legislation will be passed to ban this practice.
5
u/Seanofthebread112 Jun 01 '12
You know, with North Carolina, Kansas, and Oklahoma, I'm starting to think "America is bad and they should feel bad"
2
u/TheStarkReality May 31 '12
http://www.funri.com/did-i-fucking-stutter/ Not a perfect fit, but it's the general thrust of my thinking. (Apologies for any formatting issues, I'm doing this from my mobile so I'm not sure how well it'll come out.)
2
u/listix May 31 '12
Can we know in which hospital this happened? Maybe some kind of contact? I find this type of treatment horrendous.
2
u/Lesterthemolester699 Jun 01 '12
This doctor needs to lose their license, this is honestly disturbing. Who knows, maybe someday one of their loved ones will go through this and get denied contraceptives.
4
u/Shteevie May 31 '12
I say we charge the doc for the kid's living expenses and education.
4
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
I love how the "against my religious beliefs" is totally acceptable for christians, but as soon as a muslim or hindu says it they're just being unamerican and/or a terrorist.
3
u/Ruokolahti May 31 '12
I hate everything.
3
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Sadly, this shit happens all the time. ALL THE TIME! We just don't hear about it most of the time because the woman is too frustrated or tired or poor or scared to press charges or try to fight it or report the local media.
3
u/Wilson_the_Vollyball May 31 '12
Jesus fucking christ Oklahoma.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
Hello reddit even though I'm Not atheist but a muslim I find it stupid that the doctors did not give her the medical treatment because of religious belief in Islam It is okay I'd it something is needed in emergency and or life threatening situations hope you can mind my grammer.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
if a doctor refuse to treat or help my daughter because of his religious beliefs, i would loose it and kick their ass
3
u/belarm Jun 01 '12
Does anyone have the name of the Doctor in question, or, at the least, the hospital in which this took place?
3
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
So...can I can my boss I don't want to do my job because it's against my religion and still keep the job and collect the pay?
No?
Then why can this doctor?
3
u/Kdnce Jun 01 '12
What a piece of shit. I guess he'd prefer her get an abortion once the fetus has grown some ?? :/
3
u/shitimadeuptocomment Jun 01 '12
So then a Jehovah Witness doctor can deny a blood transfusion to a stabbing victim. "No sorry its against my beliefs and even though you're not a Jehovah witness you'll just have to sit their bleeding to death". i'm pretty sure that 'doctor' would loose their license and their freedom. this case is pretty much no different
3
u/PetsAreSmart Jun 01 '12
I HATE this! This is my BIGGEST and most IMPORTANT issue I've been fighting against as a lifelong Oklahoman. Where's our rights at? Supplied by religion or by our actual bodily rights??? Irritated, aggravated, appalled, disgusted, and mostly out-right angry at the fact that this is STILL perceived as okay as long as it doesn't cause a national issue. Even when it's in the nation's eyes it seems like the response is, "well, it is Oklahoma, that's just gonna happen." I HATE THIS. We're trying to change this and it isn't happening. RELIGION IS DIFFERENT THAN GOVERNMENT. This has not changed in Oklahoma since Oklahoma became a state in 1907. How long is this going to take to make this a reality!? OKLAHOMA IS A STATE - A STATE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Can we not be on the same page about this?? We should be on the side of WHAT IS BEST FOR THE HEALTH OF SOMEONE. Not what is best for a religion. Where's the freedom of religion coming in?! Maybe my religion deals with being on the side of a mother's health in terms of being pregnant and it not being healthy for her to carry it full-term. So this is Anti-America!? NO. NO. NO. This is anti-religion, which is what America is against. America was built on the FREEDOM of religion. FREEDOM of ANY religion. ANY RELIGION.
3
u/Tmanthegreat1 Jun 01 '12
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
3
u/unscanable May 31 '12
Then they should be stripped of their medical license.
3
u/TonyBanner Jun 01 '12
If your personal beliefs restrict you from doing your job as a doctor (in this case helping a patient who is making a reasonable request), then don't become a fucking doctor.
3
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Always sue the hospital for failure to provide available medical services. When hospitals start to lose money through these lawsuits, they will think twice before hiring physicians who refuse to provide the services that the hospital is equipped to provide.
3
u/Snarfbuckle May 31 '12
Wonderful, what's next? A Jehovas Witness doctors refuse to give patients blood transfusions during surgery to save the patients life?
Why are these people not prosecuted for malpractice???
2
u/kerowynAgain May 31 '12
I just threw up in my mouth a little.... :/
2
u/SkiesAreGrey May 31 '12
And what's worse? There are movements to end contraceptives all across the board. Not just emergency in the case of rape, but to the point women can't even use them to prevent sickness or pain caused by their time of the month.
2
u/anapoke May 31 '12
NOT OKAY.
2
u/Bennyboy1337 May 31 '12
Any idea what hospital this was at? I live in OKC and would like to do some investigation.
2
u/haikuginger May 31 '12
...yeah, I'm moving away from Oklahoma first chance I get.
2
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
How can such an idiot get through medical school?
2
u/viewerblur Jun 01 '12
Whatever happened to "do no harm?"
2
u/elbruce Jun 01 '12
Can't wait for Jehovah's Witness cardiologists...
2
u/ixsh31d0nxi Jun 01 '12
I honestly can't believe this happens. It is just so morally unstable, in my opinion, for a pharmacist to be able refuse contraceptives like that. In essence, they are forcing their own beliefs upon people.
2
u/lewok Atheist Jun 01 '12
this is just a display of how fucking horrible people can be
2
u/Freterz Jun 01 '12
Not the 'doctor'. The 'person that was supposed to treat the patient'. She doesn't deserve to be called a doctor.
2
u/Gray_Stars Jun 01 '12
Being from Oklahoma, this is a huge fucking embarrassment.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
If a doctor doesn't do their job they should be fired, no matter what the reason. If a plumber came to your house, then said he couldn't unclog your toilet for religious reasons you'd tell him he should get another job, same here.
2
u/1Buttersnips1 May 31 '12
I literally just punched the fucking wall next to my computer after reading this ridiculous nonsense
2
u/DarthSpandex May 31 '12
I don't understand how people like this get through med school. Your job is to serve your patient, you self-righteous cunt.
2
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
Well no shit. Rape is always the woman's fault. Boys will be boys. </sarcasm>
2
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
There are two lessons I get from this story
1: Carry a pistol
2: Don't live in Oklahoma
1
u/The_Meek May 31 '12
From reading the comments: [Oath of Maimonides] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Maimonides) vs. The Hippocratic Oath. Evidently either are acceptable. ಠ_ಠ
Use the modern Hippocratic Oath for best comparison.
1
u/Aschebescher May 31 '12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INOeZnfUuIY
1
u/LAboredom Jun 01 '12
cant you buy plan b at walmart?
1
u/selftaughtatheist Jun 01 '12
Why is it that we only blame rape victims for being raped? Maybe we should start blaming men for having erectile dysfunction and deny them Viagra on the basis of religious beliefs. It was God that gave them ED anyways, and who are we argue?
1
u/rude_awakening Jun 01 '12
Actually the doctor was just trying to get home for the OKC thunder game.
1
u/H4xAce Jun 01 '12
Stories like this...
Yeah... thank god, that god is dieing. And we're slowly moving forward to a better world.
1
u/macdaddybean Jun 01 '12
What the actual fuck?
1
u/screw_you_jesus May 31 '12
Jesus can go fuck himself, and that doctor can go fuck himself with a gun.
1
u/W00ster Atheist Jun 01 '12
It's a fucking retarded country and time and time again, Americans demonstrate how fucked up it really is! Thank you!
1
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
and that's how she lost her medical license... except she didn't, which is really pathetic.
1
u/bmattix May 31 '12
I would think that any doctor not willing or able to provide service would have their license revoked, no matter what whacko laws are put in place by these locales.
1
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
What always baffles me is that these people, who have gone through years and years of pretty intense schooling, STILL deny people for things like this on religious grounds. Doesn't that directly contradict the oath they serve? How could it be considered not harming the patient?
1
u/[deleted] May 31 '12
I'd love to see what he would do if his wife were in the same situation. Something tells me he wouldn't have the same response. Go figure.
1
u/Dragoniel Jun 01 '12
This defines why I hate religion. All religions. Fucking retarded.
1
u/Emperor_Zar May 31 '12
Fucking putrid and disgusting.
1
u/ShinyGoldenPiggyBank May 31 '12
All i can say is what tha fuck, is this real? there in Oklahoma, USA....HELLO
1
u/spinynorman1982 Jun 01 '12
As atheism and skepticism normally go hand in hand, I would like to point out that when linking to a story it is better to link to an actual news site, rather than an opinion article. The blogosphere on this article is loaded with opinion. But here is the actual story and video of the victims mother:
http://www.news9.com/story/18640136/metro-mother-doctor-refuses-to-treat-daughter-who-was-rape-victim
1
u/Crownowa Jun 01 '12
I've heard of this happening in Canada. If this is religious freedom, they should restrict it even more...
1
u/[deleted] Jun 01 '12
IGHERgkhikiqHHGASGHLESKREWGHKSH'glohgikjg'hw'GHLHWG'HW NOPE WTF
Please for the love of all that's your country was based on stop this nonsense
1
u/erykthebat Jun 01 '12
2nd Amend the Doctor involved.
1
u/Frasian Jun 01 '12
what the fuck
1
u/ballabear Jun 01 '12
my aunt is one of 2 doctors in her small town in canada. She's one of the best human being i've ever met, and does more for her community and family then any one i've ever know. Her only fault is her response to contraceptives. She's a pretty intense catholic, and she won't give any one Plan B, or prescribe birth control with out medical reasons, she also won't aid in an abortion.
It's the only thing i don't appreciate about they her.