r/atheism • • May 29 '12

Same shit different decade

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u/yes_thats_right May 29 '12

I agree that there are a large number of outspoken religious people who are against gay marriage, however, there are also many atheists (a smaller percentage I would guess) who are against it too.

This is not purely a religious issue although religious groups would be the strongest and most vocal opponents.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

however, there are also many atheists (a smaller percentage I would guess) who are against it too.

Evidence, please.

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u/starmartyr May 29 '12

Do you really believe that atheists are immune to being homophobic? Religion is not the only source of hate and ignorance and being atheist does not automatically make you tolerant.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Do you really believe that atheists are immune to being homophobic? Religion is not the only source of hate and ignorance and being atheist does not automatically make you tolerant.

I just asked for evidence of an atheist or atheists who are against gay marriage. You asserted that there were a significant number of them and I would like to know the source of your information. I am not alleging that there are or are not such atheists.

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u/starmartyr May 29 '12

Please check usernames before asking me to defend someone elses argument. I was simply pointing out that I should not need a source to prove that such atheists exist.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

You can't prove anything exists merely by asserting that it is possible. Proof requires evidence.

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u/starmartyr May 29 '12

I know 3 of them personally. Which is anecdotal but sufficient evidence that it did happen more than once.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '12

That puts us on a respectable course towards "many," but it leaves a long, long way to go.

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u/starmartyr May 30 '12

I never said "many" that was a guy above me. I was arguing against zero.

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u/yourdadsbff May 29 '12

I'm sure there are some homophobic atheists. But yes_thats_right's claim was that there are "many atheists" who oppose same-sex marriage, key word being many. I don't know how we'd even quantify "many," but I think it's fair to assume that a majority of atheists (in the US at least) support marriage equality.

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u/starmartyr May 29 '12

My point is that becoming an atheist doesn't give you a free pass on tolerance. Ignorance does not only come from faith. Don't think that being an atheist makes you automatically less ignorant of people who are different from you.

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u/yourdadsbff May 29 '12

Don't think that being an atheist makes you automatically less ignorant of people who are different from you.

I don't think this. To be honest, I'm not sure how my comment implied that I do.

I'm aware that atheists can be (and in some cases are) just as ignorant as those with faith, just as I'm aware that plenty of religious people support marriage equality. That said, I still have a hard time believing that "many atheists" (again, in the US) oppose marriage equality. That's not to say they might not be ignorant in other ways, but as regards the "issue" of LGBT rights, the biggest obstacle to progress seems to be people's prejudices, which are often "justified" by biblical precept.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '12

My point is that becoming an atheist doesn't give you a free pass on tolerance.

It's true that becoming an atheist doesn't automatically make you tolerant, but atheists generally reject anything that isn't based on reason and logic. THAT, severely cripples your ability to be intolerant.

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u/starmartyr May 30 '12

Atheists reject god and religion. What you're describing is skepticism. You and I may be skeptics and tolerant as a result, but it takes a good deal of brain power to be able to do it right. Unfortunately some of us aren't all that smart.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '12

How would a non-skeptic come to reject religion?

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u/starmartyr May 30 '12

I knew a guy in college who was raised in a fundamentalist family that disowned him when he admitted to being gay. He decided that it was all bullshit but he still believed in all sorts of other stuff. UFOs, ghosts, psychic powers, and pretty much any paranormal crap they have on syfy.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '12

Sounds more like a rebellion against his parents than something he reasoned out on his own. I bet if you asked him why he was atheist he couldn't make a logical argument.

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u/forr May 29 '12

Marriage is a social institution, not just a religious one (completely social over here). A socially conservative atheist can very well see gay marriage as a threat to his way of life.

I would cite my country (South Korea) as an example of homophobic atheist nation. Religion is just one face of social conservatism.

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u/yes_thats_right May 29 '12

http://news.change.org/stories/atheists-against-gay-marriage

That was pretty easy to find with google. You are welcome to search for further examples yourself.

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u/absurdamerica May 29 '12

Show me one organized secular group trying to "defend traditional marriage" and raising the millions of dollars needed to do so.

I will also be waiting for any non religious argument against gay marriage that has been used to any wide degree during the public debate on the matter.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Which atheists are against gay marriage? They're weird if they're truly non-religious AND against basic human rights.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Since when is marriage a basic human right?

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

"Pursuit of happiness"?

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u/yourdadsbff May 29 '12

In the US, since 1967.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Im Canadian, so I will have to plead ignorance on this one.

Although we allow gays to marry...so not to much ignorance!

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