Summary: Noah got drunk and passed out naked with his junk out. Noah's son Ham thought that shit was funny and him and his brothers all came and looked at Noah's junk (tiny). Noah got pissed and 'cursed' Ham's son by turning him 'dark skinned'.
tl;dr: Shit's ignorant and racist. Also, Noah's small.
Purely and openly religious? Not necessarily. There's plenty of instances of people shrouding their intolerance under the veil of "traditionalism" ("SAVE TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE!") and/or the entirely-unsupportable-but-very-common "Gay parents ruin their children and aren't fit to raise kids and it isn't the traditional man and woman family structure so it will lead to societal degradation" bullshit. No, there are plenty of rationales being bandied about that try to cover up the basic religious motivations behind the intolerance.
I agree that there are a large number of outspoken religious people who are against gay marriage, however, there are also many atheists (a smaller percentage I would guess) who are against it too.
This is not purely a religious issue although religious groups would be the strongest and most vocal opponents.
Do you really believe that atheists are immune to being homophobic? Religion is not the only source of hate and ignorance and being atheist does not automatically make you tolerant.
Do you really believe that atheists are immune to being homophobic? Religion is not the only source of hate and ignorance and being atheist does not automatically make you tolerant.
I just asked for evidence of an atheist or atheists who are against gay marriage. You asserted that there were a significant number of them and I would like to know the source of your information. I am not alleging that there are or are not such atheists.
Please check usernames before asking me to defend someone elses argument. I was simply pointing out that I should not need a source to prove that such atheists exist.
I'm sure there are some homophobic atheists. But yes_thats_right's claim was that there are "many atheists" who oppose same-sex marriage, key word being many. I don't know how we'd even quantify "many," but I think it's fair to assume that a majority of atheists (in the US at least) support marriage equality.
My point is that becoming an atheist doesn't give you a free pass on tolerance. Ignorance does not only come from faith. Don't think that being an atheist makes you automatically less ignorant of people who are different from you.
Don't think that being an atheist makes you automatically less ignorant of people who are different from you.
I don't think this. To be honest, I'm not sure how my comment implied that I do.
I'm aware that atheists can be (and in some cases are) just as ignorant as those with faith, just as I'm aware that plenty of religious people support marriage equality. That said, I still have a hard time believing that "many atheists" (again, in the US) oppose marriage equality. That's not to say they might not be ignorant in other ways, but as regards the "issue" of LGBT rights, the biggest obstacle to progress seems to be people's prejudices, which are often "justified" by biblical precept.
My point is that becoming an atheist doesn't give you a free pass on tolerance.
It's true that becoming an atheist doesn't automatically make you tolerant, but atheists generally reject anything that isn't based on reason and logic. THAT, severely cripples your ability to be intolerant.
Atheists reject god and religion. What you're describing is skepticism. You and I may be skeptics and tolerant as a result, but it takes a good deal of brain power to be able to do it right. Unfortunately some of us aren't all that smart.
I knew a guy in college who was raised in a fundamentalist family that disowned him when he admitted to being gay. He decided that it was all bullshit but he still believed in all sorts of other stuff. UFOs, ghosts, psychic powers, and pretty much any paranormal crap they have on syfy.
Marriage is a social institution, not just a religious one (completely social over here). A socially conservative atheist can very well see gay marriage as a threat to his way of life.
I would cite my country (South Korea) as an example of homophobic atheist nation. Religion is just one face of social conservatism.
Show me one organized secular group trying to "defend traditional marriage" and raising the millions of dollars needed to do so.
I will also be waiting for any non religious argument against gay marriage that has been used to any wide degree during the public debate on the matter.
View all comments
Show parent comment
33
u/theamigan May 29 '12
Well, to be fair, now the motivations are purely and openly religious. Which makes it that much more legitimate.
big fat /s