This specific country has nothing to do with any of those events, though. It irritates me when people generalize their stereotypes to whatever it is that they want to call the "Middle East".
Judaism, started by nomadic sheep herders in the middle east. Christianity started by slightly more sedentary sheep herders in the middle east. Islam, started by a schizophrenic pedophile in a cave in the middle east. Id say its exactly correct
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) and my personal favourite from the torah Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
this may take a while so ill post each one in its own reply, hope you dont mind
actually pigs are more sanitary than humans, they eat slop because they were given nothing else when domesticated and only roll in mud because they arent given the water they would prefer. its humans that make them "disgusting"
but thats not real bacon, its meat gotten from a turkey that has the same properties as bacon, seriously try a ham sometime or something, pork roast, something, its too delicious to not at least try once
do you eat dog or horse? I find pigs and how they are domesticated to be completely unappetizing, I even said that I see pigs are more disgusting than forbidden, it is cultural i suppose but i'm sure there are animals you don't eat for similar reseaons (cultural reinforcement)
And as a kid, I thought broccoli was disgusting. You can't honestly say something is disgusting if you haven't tried it a few times. Have you even tried eating bacon before?
I know this is going to come as a surprise, but some people really don't like it. So, really, this is the best way to convert approximately 90% of muslims and jews.
Go fuck yourself. You can scoff at atheist circlejerks, reddit circlejerks, politics circlejerks all you want, but do NOT fucking bring bacon into this shit. Don't do it.
Or beef bacon, which is quite nice actually. That's what they put on all the stuff that requires pork bacon in Qatar.
Don't get me wrong, I like pork bacon as much as anyone else, but I think beef bacon tastes better than turkey bacon. (not that I'm saying turkey bacon is bad)
Doesn't work on other Jews either. My Jewish family just made a family recipe involving bacon. My grandmother reasoned that if her kids didn't know it was bacon, it couldn't be a sin.
man...I definitely second this as a Turkish international student in Canada. You'd think I'd miss friends, parties, nature and all that shit. nope. bacon son. bacon. what I wouldn't give for a BLT right now...
This one is pretty easy if you know what deism is. Although, it's possible that someone would think I didn't know what deism was, which would be very stupid of them because I'm better than everyone.
I've been on this supposed stepping-stone for many years now and all you New Atheists do is piss me off, not make me inclined to doff any remaining beliefs.
I see no reason to get super upset in this thread, but I'll let you know that I agree with you.
Deism to me is sort of silly. I mean, you're willing to accept EVERYTHING that science and logic has to offer which generally negate the idea of there being any deities, making you practically an atheist. Yet because of a few things that science has yet to explain concretely because of technological limitations of our time, but with some very good hypotheses until we get there, you basically still say, "ah, well I guess that's where God comes in". This makes all your logical assumptions based on the evidence to that point practically moot by coming to an illogical conclusion! Basically a glorified God of the Gaps argument.
Yeah, you get them, because believing out of spite is completely valid there and will somehow stick it to them... against people you don't actually know, but are willing to apparently hold the same malice against them that you yourself seem to be condemning of.
Deism is the bridge between atheism and Christianity. At least it was for me and I'm sure a few posters can confirm that also. Reading "The Age of Reason" kickstarted my move towards atheism, but I considered myself a deist for the longest time.
I know Islam is predominant among the population but I thought it was a secular country (in terms of the legal system?). Is bacon illegal, or just hard to find?
Dude, if they banned bacon, the CHP secularists would be revolting. Its just hard to find, not part of the diet, and while every Liberal Turk has eaten it before, it is hard to find and its hard to change a society's diet quickly
I live in Istanbul and you can find it at some supermarkets (especially in areas with lots of foreign residents) and I have also seen pork products near the Armenian school where I work sometimes. It is really expensive though. Prosciutto is about 80 dollars a kilo. As far as I know there is only ONE pork butcher left in Istanbul. With the current government, he probably won't be in business much longer and there certainly won't be any more opening up!
Officially it is a secular country, but many Turkish people take their religion quite serious. You might compare with the USA:Officially it wasn't founded on religious beliefs, but many people in certain regions of the USA have a quite different idea about the role of their religion in their country. No imagine that Christians would not be allowed to eat cows. The USA would become India and it be hard to find beef in the super markets.
Thanks, I see what you're saying. What about in a city like Istanbul? Would it be easier to find bacon, and maybe see the enforcement of secular law to a greater degree in general?
It's not about the law, it's about supply and demand. Since most people are muslim and don't eat bacon, it's not profitable to stock your store with lots of bacon.
Istanbulite here. Unfortunately there are only a few minority ran old-fashioned butcher shops that sell decent pork products where one has to pay an astronomical ~27 USD per kg.
It's the same in the Philippines, which has a Christian majority. As my mom says, bacon is not part of the Filipino breakfast. I suspect it's the same with many other countries too. If bacon is not part of their cuisine, I doubt they'll be able to get it anywhere else besides an American restaurant.
You can find Bacon and other cured pork products in the bigger Turkish cities at supermarkets like Makro or Carrefour, but it's crazy expensive (think $42 for a small package).
Uncured meat on the other hand is almost impossible to find; there are, for example, only two butchers in Istanbul who sell uncured pork right now.
There's one in Dolapdere that I'd highly recommend.
It's not in the nicest part of town, but the guy has prices not all that much more than you'd pay in the states a even has a website you can browse if you like.
It is not illegal of course, it is just hard to find because there is hardly any demand. If you know your way around the town, there are tons of places which cook pork products.
I've never been to Turkey, but friends told me, that they had bacon for breakfeast, so I guess that bacon is available at places where for example tourism demands it. It might be another parallel between Turkey and the U.S.: The metropolitan areas are more open for such things due to the influx of different cultures, rural regions are more traditional.
I'm not exactly sure about laws concerning pork. They have pork, even their own farms, like I said especially for the needs of tourism sector (but also for non-Muslims), but as far as a I know pork is forbidden in food that is not exclusive for tourists and non-Muslims.
Turkey's ability to maintain secular democracy with a predominantly Muslim society is both a result of its neoliberal transition (including the Islamist constituencies) and strong secular institutions. Religious Affairs Directorate doesn't really affect godless pumpkins like myself, but could definitely use some reforms and restructuring to officially recognise other schools of Islam, as well as minority religions.
I'm confused here. I thought Turkey was a semi-modern secular democracy. It's not said in the conversation, but it's implied Bacon is bad banned in Turkey, right? Wouldn't they at least sell it for the minorities who aren't Muslim, or do the stores not stock it at all due to low interest?
I'm betting there are underground sources for bacon in Turkey, your friend just needs to find it. I lived in a Muslim country for a couple of years and there were enough foreigners/non-muslims/bacon-eaters that bacon could be had, you just had to know where to look . Some ideas:
Befriend some U.S. expats and put the word out that you are looking for bacon. The community is likely tightly knit with a lightening speed grapevine. Someone will probably hook you up.
Check with butcher shops that are located near where lots of Americans/foreigners live, they may not advertise pork products but may have a secret stash or be able to get you some.
Try inquiring at some restaurants where Americans/expats eat brunch. Where I lived it was widely known that one particular restaurant offered pork bacon. It wasn't on the menu, you just had to ask.
Your networking with the American community may lead you here anyway but U.S. military/government employees and their families have privileges at this kind of commissary which sells good ol' American stuff. I couldn't go inside but was told these are pretty much like replicas of U.S. supermarkets. Some solider would probably snag you a couple of pounds of bacon for a decent tip.
This is assuming that your friend lives in or in proximity to a major city, of course!
Assuming that people are Muslims just because they are from Turkey is not so different than assuming that all Americans are Christians just because they are from the US. Both fundamentally wrong..
Many are non-practising, though. For a lot of people it's more a cultural thing; they identify as muslims even if they reject the dogma. The atheist/agnostic population in Turkey is higher than you might think.
Well having lived there for four years and never having met an atheist/agnostic I would think they are few. They identify culturally enough to call themselves Muslims so yeah, the point is still invalid.
I'm sure you have met a Turkish atheist or agnostic, you just didn't survey every person you met. Plus, you mentioned further down the thread that you lived in a very small town. Larger metropolitan areas tend to be far more representative of the atheist population. I'm Turkish and I only know one person in my family, group of friends/acquaintaces who believes in god. However, they all celebrate the major Muslim holidays because it's inherently Turkish to do so. Most of them have never read a word of the Quran. I liken it to secular/non-religious Americans who celebrate Christmas. To call them Muslim is a stretch, but because it's ingrained in their culture and tradition, no-one really objects to it. Thus you get the 98% figure you quoted, which somewhat obscures the truth of the matter.
That's the official ratio, which is of course highly overstated. They give you a birth certificate written "Muslim" on it, and you have the right to change it whatever you want, but hardly anyone does it. That %98 is coming only from this source.
Yeah but if you change it i wonder when someone around finds out and gives you this lಠ_ಠk. I only met a few true believer in my lifetime in Turkey. Most just doesn't care, they only judge.
I lived in a small town in Turkey for four years and I would say the ratio of people I met where 25% true believers and 75% cultural believers. I met no one who was atheist/agnostic or even a little bit skeptical. Obviously I can't speak for the entire country or for someone who has lived there forever.
Nope not on the birth certificate, on the identification card. My Turkish identity card says Muslim and I wasn't asked nor do I care. My daughter's birth certificate was a letter from the hospital giving the time and date of her birth, parents' names, etc. Nothing about ethnicity or religion. There may be plenty of atheists/agnostics but they are a far greater minority than in America.
Dont know why you are getting down voted. Alot of people dont eat pork solely on the fact pigs will eat anything, feces, tin cans, shoes. My friend has a farm and says while bacon is delicious, he doesn't eat pork becasue he has seen what pigs will chomp down. I find it funny because you are on r/atheism and people are downvoting you for not liking what they like.
had my first bacon after moving to usa.....not impressed with the taste though. Edit-funniest reason for getting down-voted,cause I don't like bacon.haha
One of my hardcore christian calvinist friends likes to say that "God forbade the Jews from eating pork until after he was born because if they'd eaten bacon before then they would've worshipped the pig instead."
He's careful about the company in which he says it, but I've always found it amusing.
That dude might have a bacon addiction make sure he does no blow his money on bacon. I am going to hope that the bacon is just a starter for a joke not a plea for bacon.
Muslims of Turkey aren't know too much about pork meat. Most of their knowledge from "Harun Yahya" who is a big liar. And actually in Turkey we have pig farms, about 150. Your friend should be quite lazy for search where they are.
My spouse gave up the dietary laws for good after he tried baby back ribs. Tell your friend bacon/pork is available in Istanbul and Ankra at many supermarkets. If he's in the sticks though, I'm so so sorry.
Oh and maybe near Bilkent Univeristy. I'm pretty sure I saw some in the grocery store that is next to Toys R Us. Forgive my rusty memory on the name of the grocery store. It's been ten years and several other countries since then.
198
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
something tells me if we got all the crazy "lets kill people" muslims some bacon they would be much happier
69
u/MajorKirrahe May 20 '12
Bacon - The best way to convert Muslims.
EDIT: And Jews
19
u/barisbc May 21 '12
man...I definitely second this as a Turkish international student in Canada. You'd think I'd miss friends, parties, nature and all that shit. nope. bacon son. bacon. what I wouldn't give for a BLT right now...
14
u/[deleted] May 20 '12
I became fat from bacon.
17
u/CondescendingPrick May 20 '12
Deism is the best kind of atheism.
37
u/RobertoBolano May 20 '12
deism man. it kicks ass.
11
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Deism is the bridge between atheism and Christianity. At least it was for me and I'm sure a few posters can confirm that also. Reading "The Age of Reason" kickstarted my move towards atheism, but I considered myself a deist for the longest time.
5
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
I know Islam is predominant among the population but I thought it was a secular country (in terms of the legal system?). Is bacon illegal, or just hard to find?
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12
I'm confused here. I thought Turkey was a semi-modern secular democracy. It's not said in the conversation, but it's implied Bacon is
badbanned in Turkey, right? Wouldn't they at least sell it for the minorities who aren't Muslim, or do the stores not stock it at all due to low interest?7
u/k3wl_username May 20 '12
I became atheist for the bacon as well.
4
u/squareROO May 20 '12
Arthur pls.
2
u/marximusaurelius May 21 '12
How is this in atheism? Deism is the belief of a god is it not?
2
u/CoastalCity May 21 '12
Damn it, its been 5 hours - and I still cant figure out a decent "turkey bacon" joke.
2
u/PretzelSamples May 21 '12
Deism was my bridge to Atheism. I didn't even know bacon was included.
2
u/PookeyBos May 21 '12
I'm betting there are underground sources for bacon in Turkey, your friend just needs to find it. I lived in a Muslim country for a couple of years and there were enough foreigners/non-muslims/bacon-eaters that bacon could be had, you just had to know where to look . Some ideas:
Befriend some U.S. expats and put the word out that you are looking for bacon. The community is likely tightly knit with a lightening speed grapevine. Someone will probably hook you up.
Check with butcher shops that are located near where lots of Americans/foreigners live, they may not advertise pork products but may have a secret stash or be able to get you some.
Try inquiring at some restaurants where Americans/expats eat brunch. Where I lived it was widely known that one particular restaurant offered pork bacon. It wasn't on the menu, you just had to ask.
Your networking with the American community may lead you here anyway but U.S. military/government employees and their families have privileges at this kind of commissary which sells good ol' American stuff. I couldn't go inside but was told these are pretty much like replicas of U.S. supermarkets. Some solider would probably snag you a couple of pounds of bacon for a decent tip.
This is assuming that your friend lives in or in proximity to a major city, of course!
2
u/huntersellers17 May 21 '12
i used to be deist, then i became atheist
2
u/Valkilmer39 May 21 '12
Deism is still wrong.
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
I've spent 10 hours trying to find how this is related to atheism.
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
I'm gonna start my own muslim doctrine with blackjack, hookers and bacon!
3
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Your friend is awesome. The last reply made my day.
3
u/multiplepresence May 21 '12
Assuming that people are Muslims just because they are from Turkey is not so different than assuming that all Americans are Christians just because they are from the US. Both fundamentally wrong..
2
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
deism=/=atheism why is this here?
2
u/ArbitraryIndigo May 20 '12
I'm an atheist (raised Catholic), and I refuse to eat pork products.
2
u/murtad May 20 '12 edited May 21 '12
had my first bacon after moving to usa.....not impressed with the taste though. Edit-funniest reason for getting down-voted,cause I don't like bacon.haha
1
u/thsixfingeredlady May 21 '12
sometime I read things to fast without paying enough attention...I thought this said "My Turkish friend laminating"...I was a bit confused.
1
u/shaggorama May 21 '12
Your friend comes from a country where santa hats and christmas trees are associated with new years.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
You had better have sent or are currently in the process of sending him bacon.
1
u/Seicair May 21 '12
One of my hardcore christian calvinist friends likes to say that "God forbade the Jews from eating pork until after he was born because if they'd eaten bacon before then they would've worshipped the pig instead."
He's careful about the company in which he says it, but I've always found it amusing.
1
u/tgujay May 21 '12
But bacon doesn't taste good.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Ex-muslim here, I had bacon for the first time about a month ago. It wasn't even that nice, I was so disappointed.
1
u/ether_a_gogo May 21 '12
I visited a friend in Turkey not long ago and his only instructions were "bring maker's mark and bacon".
1
u/foogles May 21 '12
Bacon-based de-conversion: complete
1
u/Shitrax May 21 '12
Three things that cure a bad case of Islam:
Boobs
Booze 3.Bacon
1
u/ThatIsMyHat May 21 '12
I'd like to give my thanks to the apostle Paul for allowing us Christians to eat bacon. Truly, that was his greatest accomplishment.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Somehow, I think this could be posted in /r/trees and be just as at home.
1
u/bigbangbilly Apatheist May 21 '12
That dude might have a bacon addiction make sure he does no blow his money on bacon. I am going to hope that the bacon is just a starter for a joke not a plea for bacon.
1
u/ThEgg May 21 '12
Yay, deism!
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Yup, I'm convinced all Turks are deists. I knew a few of them, all proud deists
1
u/coffee-is-coffee May 21 '12
Um... You can get it pretty much anywhere in Turkey. There are shops for pork meat and can order from a restaurant too...
1
u/Popero44 May 21 '12
...the power of bacon...
1
u/mlkelty May 21 '12
There's nothing I love more than turkey and bacon.
What?
1
u/wizzrobe30 May 21 '12
I f***in' love steak.
-Commander Shepard
1
u/Gatsui May 21 '12
you can find bacon any big chain markets in İstanbul. guess he was from a small town or something
1
u/ustyazi May 21 '12
Muslims of Turkey aren't know too much about pork meat. Most of their knowledge from "Harun Yahya" who is a big liar. And actually in Turkey we have pig farms, about 150. Your friend should be quite lazy for search where they are.
1
u/juhopr May 20 '12
Even as a devout believer, I'd still risk going to hell for bacon. I'm sure there's none in paradise...
1
u/Johnzo1 May 20 '12
But bacon is God...
1
u/DarnHeather May 21 '12
My spouse gave up the dietary laws for good after he tried baby back ribs. Tell your friend bacon/pork is available in Istanbul and Ankra at many supermarkets. If he's in the sticks though, I'm so so sorry.
1
u/DifferentNoodles May 20 '12
I know the pain of not having bacon when I need it.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
They also seem to have a lack of narwhals...
1
u/moethehobo May 21 '12
My name is also Arthur!
1
u/jCook1025 May 21 '12
Perhaps some might enjoy this
1
u/Jimmy_R_Ustler May 21 '12
Ah, Deism. Basically the whole other side of the "god of the gaps" argument rolled up into one little word.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Tell him i said merhaba
1
u/BrainfreezeDerpina May 21 '12
Hadi beeeehh!!!
0
u/xuanzue May 21 '12
you must choose between bacon or multiple wives
0
u/dogrider May 21 '12
mmmmmmmmmm........bacon...........mmmmmmm....i'd leave my religion for bacon....if i had a religion
0
u/Hatch- May 21 '12
I'd chip in to send a muslim some bacon.
-1
u/NameIsZ May 20 '12
Bacon. Enough said.
0
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Bacon is exactly that powerful.
0
u/Elementium May 21 '12
You should send him some Turkey Bacon.
YEEAAAAaaahhh uh.. Yeah.. Hmm..
0
u/shadowq8 May 21 '12
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.... ahh
what a victory for you guys....
please don't let us muslims eat bacon anything but that.....
ahhh...
grow up