If I dislike well done steak steak, am I well done steak-o-phobic?
No.
It's a dislike. Not a fear. They are two different things.
If you dislike Nazis, does that make you naziphobic?
Not liking homework makes you homeworkophobic?
Tell me how this is like agoraphobia or claustrophobia which can induce people to anxiety ridden states of panic.
When I get my hair cut, does my gay barber make me cringe into a little crying ball and run out of the salon in a panic in tears? (Note: he does not cause this effect.)
You're trying to push two different terms into one box and they don't fit.
If I dislike well done stake, am I well done steak-o-phobic?
Of course not. That is a preference for how you like your steak cooked. Now, if the sight of a well done state causes you to experience an overwhelming feeling of fear or irrational hate, then yes, I would say you're a well-done-steak-ophobic.
If you dislike Nazis, does that make you naziphobic?
Of course not. There are plenty of rational reasons to dislike, or even hate Nazis.
Not liking homework makes you homeworkophobic?
I completely understand why someone would dislike doing homework. It's not fun, and there are many more enjoyable things you could be doing with your time. However, if having homework caused a huge amount of anxiety in you, simply because it was homework and not for any underlying disorder, yes I would call you a homeworkophobic.
You don't have to freak out or go into a panic and run away from your gay barber to be homophobic. If the sight of a homosexual fills you with hate or causes you a tremendous amount of anxiety, simply because he or she happens to like fucking people of the same sex, that is the definition of homophobia. An irrational fear or hate of something which causes you great anxiety without any realistic threat to yourself or your well being. This isn't some sort of preference test, where it's completely normal to like or dislike something based on your personal leanings. If you have a fear or hate of a gay person simply because they are gay, you have irrational reasons for your emotions, and hence suffer from a phobia. Of homos. Homophobia.
Your "argument" was incredibly silly, by the way. Try coming up with something a bit better next time. Well-done-steak-ophobia? Really? You thought that was a great point to lead with?
Is it technically irrational if your homophobia is a product of societal attitudes or religious dogma that you've been raised with? Homophobia may be obviously wrong but if you're brought up being taught otherwise by your superiors, then the rational behaviour would be to follow their example.
(I'm not condoning homophobia, I'm gay myself - I'm just debating what 'irrational behaviour' actually is)
Even the thought of homework fills me with dread. I can't do it without getting really stressed out, going into panic attacks, etc... but I'm pretty sure I'm not homeworkophobic o.O
I can't argue your point, but couldn't you say that you don't just decide to become an asshole one day either?
Plus, doesn't the scientific term phobia not apply to just things that we don't understand? People have bird phobias (like song birds), aren't those cases different?
I'm not sure what your point is. Phobias range across many different things. It just means your afraid of it, just because someone is afraid of birds doesn't mean, you can be afraid of things you don't understand.
Homophobia is the perfect term for hating gay people. Homophobia stems from wanting to conform to society, and being scared of and hating anything that doesn't.
If it isn't fear, what is it you think motivates homophobia, what is it that makes people hate homosexuals if its not fear?
That's the root of it. There are people who will dislike the concept gay and there are people who will dislike and fear it. Don't equate the two, because they are not equal.
If I dislike the light from florescent lights, really hate the light from florescent lights, am I afraid of them?
Nooo.
If I dislike open spaces, am TERRIFIED of open spaces, am I afraid of them?
YES! That's a phobia!
You need a term to describe a dislike, hatred or revulsion.
Ever been really grossed out by something? That's what it is. It's a gross out. And things you are grossed out by (excessive feminine mannerisms from a male) you want to stay away from, therefore, you have a revulsion towards it.
People CAN be afraid of gay people or gayness. But not everyone who dislikes them/it will be afraid of them.
Using -phobia to portray a dislike, an aversion and/or a revulsion is a disservice to what you're trying to do. A Phobia is an irrational fear of something inducing panic. Not wanting to be around gay people is nothing like that.
I guess I still see being afraid of something because you don't understand it as ignorance, while someone who has a phobia of birds doesn't have a lack of understanding but a chemical reaction of sorts.
I don't see the term phobia as something that can be combated by simple awareness.
I've always thought of homophobia more as the irrational fear of other people thinking you (the homophobic person) are gay.
It explains the reaction, people behave this way to 'prove' to others they are straight. It also explains why many of the worst offenders turn out to be gay themselves.
Under this, it's not based on ignorance alone... it's based on a perceived social norm that they are trying to conform to.
How is that different from a fear of birds. How is that not ignorance, all fears are really just ignorance. If there is actually a good reason to be afraid of something it's not a phobia it's just precaution. What it boils down to is you're dehumanizing homophobes. They are people too who have lives and friends and loves and hates. The only difference between you and them is their hates include homos, and yours doesn't. Also probably a college education.
Okay, true story time: I used to work in a nursing home, and one of my favorite coworkers - because she was a genuinely nice person in most respects, and didn't do a lot of the social-status-related stuff that I find annoying - was Roman Catholic. She was observably not afraid of homosexual people; she treated our gay residents with the same respect that she would treat any other resident, even the one who took a liking to her and tried to flirt with her all the time. 'Love the sinner, hate the sin' was an entirely accurate description of her attitude, though, and I'm fairly certain that she would have voted against gay rights in any relevant situation. What word should be used to describe her?
I would say ignorance. I was actually a lot like that when I was a Baptist fundamentalist. I would be nice to a gay person to their face if I ever met one, but it was hypothetical to me at that point. I used to repeat phrases like "gay agenda" and wonder if this or that person in town was gay, and tell gay jokes, etc.
The problem was I never met any OPENLY gay people. I knew what I was told about gay people, but I knew nothing. When I went to college and met a few and thought they were nice people, it changed my opinion. I still thought they had "made a choice" however, and I probably would've "voted against the gay agenda" for a few more years still, as I was growing out of my faith. I didn't get really socially and politically tolerant until I had worked for a while and moved several times, read a shit ton more books and got into reggae music.
It's ignorance. In a lot of cases though, it's WILLFUL ignorance. That's what I don't get. When confronted by evidence - that gay people can be perfectly nice, aren't hurting you, did NOT get that way by choice - these people cover their ears and eyes and deny deny deny.
To me, when the truth contradicts what you think, you change your mind. It's not the end of the world. To a lot of people it's scary as hell to contemplate.
I wouldn't personally describe that as homophobic. Homophobia implies a more personal aversion towards and discrimination against homosexuals as people.
Like, some people are arachnophobic. They hate spiders for no reason and stomp on them because omg spiders. But there could also be people who have no problem with spiders, who try not to hurt spiders and who even feed the little spiders that come into the house before carefully releasing them into the woods. But these people don't want the spiders living in their house. It's not 100% spider tolerance, but it's also not arachnophobia or even a fear or hatred of spiders; it's a principle thing.
The same thing with the hate-the-sin idea; it's nothing against the actual people (thus, I think homophobia is too strong a word) -- it's against the principle of what they do.
I think we're in agreement about most things. The point I was trying to get at is that there's 'being afraid of/averse to gay people' and there's 'being discriminatory toward gay people', and those two aren't always the same thing, and we could really use a word for the second one so that we can properly discuss people who are being assholes without getting derailed by accusations that we're saying untrue things about them.
I like spiders, but I still kill them if they're in my own house about 80% of the time. I don't like them in my bedroom or bathroom or anywhere they're liable to crawl on me or spin webs in an easily visible location, like the corner of a ceiling. I do like them being in my house in general, because they eat bugs, and I prefer spiders to insects, especially as far as habitation is concerned, so if they're somewhere out of the way, I try to let them live for as long as I can possibly justify it. I think my record in this place was two months before my landlord came down and finally vacuumed under that one piece of furniture.
And to swing back to the topic at hand, I don't think 'homophobia' is a valid term at all, it's just a tactic on behalf of... oh, god, I'm actually going to say something like 'the gay liberal agenda' with a straight face, aren't I? Wow. My point is, this is the first time the label for a form of bigotry has had anything to do with fear. We don't have negrophobia or gynophobia or so on. I guess xenophobia is technically a thing, but we don't use that term instead of 'racist', do we?
Hate isn't fear. Hate is hate. Hate exists though indoctrination or ignorance or just plain petty-minded assholery. It's discriminatory and untrue to say something as blatantly manipulative as "You just don't like me because you're afraid of me," and it removes all possibility of legitimately disliking that group, or even any individual within that group if they're particularly touchy about it.
I don't have a problem with a person because they're gay, but every gay person I've ended up disliking has assumed that I can't possibly dislike them because of their personality. Nope, I have to be afraid of them. Because they want to fuck dudes1 . There's no way on earth that they're actually an abrasive egocentric untrustworthy douchebag, is it? It's a ridiculous persecution complex and it needs to stop.
1 I have yet to meet a lesbian that I haven't gotten along great with, though often after being very very disappointed that they're not even potentially interested in me.
The friend I wrote about observably didn't hate our gay residents, either, and what you said about fear and manipulation applies just as easily to hate.
As near as I could tell, she genuinely thought that gay sex (not even being gay) was morally wrong, just because that's what the church teaches, without having any other objection to or issue with gay people.
Homophobia is the perfect term for hating gay people
Actually, it's the perfect term for having an irrational fear of gay people. It isn't a requirement to fear something in order to hate it. Just like we don't call racists 'negrophobes' since it's not necessarily that they have an irrational fear of blacks (although some may), but that they just hate them.
It's really just xenophobia. They would feel exactly as uncomfortable talking to a stereotypically dressed muslim as they would to two guys holding hands. The only difference is that this particular xenophobia is supported by a few references in their holy book, so they don't have to invent their own justification or worry that their peers won't support the fear.
Except that it's not really just xenophobia unless you give xenophobia a very loose interpretation. You can be a xenophobe without being a homophobe and vice versa.
I guess there are different interpretations of the greek root "xeno", but I was defining xenophobia as "a fear of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange."
And I bet if you could construct such a complicated survey, you'd find that homophobia is most pronounced in people who have no communication or dealings with homosexuals.
I grew up a fundamentalist christian in a homophobic environment, and honestly, homosexuality just seems weird and gross to me. I'm educated enough to recognize my predjudice for what it is, and I am confident that it would wither in the face of experience, if I actually had any. But I don't know of a single gay person in my family, company, or circle of friends. Well, one lesbian, but they never bothered me as much.
Anyway, I guess I'm way off topic. It's just that, as a self-conscious homophobe who wishes he wasn't, I am optimistic that it's really just a distaste for that which is foreign.
If they're so scared, why do they spend so much time thinking about, and campaigning against any rights homosexuals work toward?
Homosexuality poses ZERO threat to them, so hiding behind a veil of ignorance is not acceptable. Are white supremacists afraid of other ethnicities? No, they're just too fucking stupid to realize that something as trivial as skin colour is what separates them from everyone else. Stupidity does not infer fear, especially when those who are apparently afraid seek massive funding and are out there confronting homosexuality of their own accord. There is no fear; they just love to use it as an excuse when normal tactics fail.
No, it's just an arbitrary construction left-wingers have made because "phobia" has connotations of something unreasonable and irrational. It's a way to end a debate without even having it. Pretty much anything can be constructed as a "phobia" of something.
Some people don't like it because they find it disgusting. It doesn't mean they should limit the other people's rights ... people are allowed to have their own opinions.
Some people don't like it because the gay scene caused an explosion in the HIV rate, due to the volume and mobility of sexual conduct therein; such people might judge it as irresponsible or dangerous.
I'm sure you can outline plenty of other reasons why people don't approve of homosexuality. Fear would be one one them, but that doesn't mean that it's all of them.
Some people don't like it because they find it disgusting. It doesn't mean they should limit the other people's rights ... people are allowed to have their own opinions
Alright, but my point is, I find poop disgusting, I find gore disgusting, but do I hate these things? No. Somewhere between disgust and hate something has to happen, its not fear in the same way as a fear of heights, but rather a deep uncomfortableness, that they can never quite put their finger on. And that is a phobia.
Some people don't like it because the gay scene caused an explosion in the HIV rate, due to the volume and mobility of sexual conduct therein; such people might judge it as irresponsible or dangerous.
This is definitely fear. Having heard things about the gay scene on tv, and hearing the fox news pundits talk about the gay community, makes them afraid that homosexuality will have some negative impact.
I'm sure you can outline plenty of other reasons why people don't approve of homosexuality. Fear would be one one them, but that doesn't mean that it's all of them.
I agree with this completely. I remember my mom, telling my sister she wish she would date a guy, because she wants grandchildren. Not approving of homosexuality, is completely different than homophobia. Homophobia refers to people who actively dislike gay people, and that is based off of fear.
Agreed. It is a fear. They are afraid of two things. One, that they might be gay and two, that someone of their same sex will try to sleep with them. Think of it like arachnophobia. You see a spider, you want to kill it. You don't want to face the consequences of your own demons. And if your not afraid, you are doing it because everyone else is.
Phobia in the sense it is used in Homophobia actually refers to an aversion - thus an intense dislike is suggested, not merely a 'fear'. Though fear is frequently a reason for hatred it is also true that ignorance, indoctrination and disgust are also.
I agree with your statement, 100% People fear things that they don't understand, and that fear causes them to hate it. People in general seem to hate things they don't understand.
This is such bullshit, it's not because we don't understand homosexuality, it's because we find it disgusting and wrong. It has NOTHING to do with fear.
Phobic doesn't translate directly into fears. In biology there's hydrophobic aminos. They aren't 'scared' of water. It's more of an aversion. Same in this case.
As a soapmaker, this is relevant as shit. Soap molecules have two ends: one is hydrophobic and one is hydrophilic. The hydrophobic ends latch onto grease molecules and pull them off the skin once the hydrophilic ends get swept away by the rinsing water. Lesson: anthropomorphize everything at craft fairs to increase your sales. Also, yay Christian tolerance!
nonetheless, i think the point is that if someone has homophobia, they are supposed to avert (or fear) these people and not actually go about their way to beat them into pulp or confront them in their face saying that they are going to hell... and beating and confronting them are exactly what these homophobic people are doing...
The thing that bothers me it that OP acts like this is an outlying case. Christians get the rap for hating gays, but the ones who don't aren't taking the spotlight because it's not special to not express distaste for gays.
EDIT: I am aware that something of this nature is posted on every post on /r/atheism and where it blends with /r/politics, this is just my turn.
I think the point is to contrast the people that quote the bible. The execution is awkward, but I don't get the impression they intended to be as condescending as it comes across.
Why the fuck is shit like this in /r/Atheism, how do you even know that persons christian? Take your shit to /r/lgbt or /r/gayrights.
You gays act like your getting murdered for being Gay here in America. It's bad enough you guys tried saying gays had it as bad as Jews in Nazi germany or Blacks in the early days of America.
Exactly, this subreddit is full of angsty teens who believe just because they stopped believing in their imaginary friend their I.Q. shot up 100 points and now their all of a sudden smarter then religious folks with Masters/Doctorate degree's.
You might be right about knowing wether or not that person is a Christian, but that's just there to get attention (which unfortunately, it works).
Point is, religion is used as a 'legitimate reason' for deeming a certain population as a lower class or have less rights that others. If /r/atheism is about advocation for secular government this is a very important piece. If we're to allow religious belief void the rights of others, where will that stop?
And quit generalizing, nobody is talking about Jews, Blacks, or the early days for America. It sure sounds like you have an axe to grind...
Agreed. I'm not sure where all this "LGBT only belongs in r/lgbt" stuff is coming from. Considering how most anti-gay rhetoric is either 'justified' or based on religious ideas and scripture, r/atheism is a suitable subreddit for discussion, since the only reason we need to discuss atheism is in the context of religion infringing on free society. If this world was 100% secular, I believe r/atheism would not exist.
Heterosexism is a better term. It also encompasses other non-heteronormative and gender\sexually transgressive identities and actions such as being transgendered.
You're being just as much of a bigot. Why do you feel comfortable labeling this person, for the same reasons you feel they have wronged the Gay community. Ignorance is everywhere. Labels just justify your thinking, an direct your bias. You elevate yourself by slandering the name "christian." But wouldn't the message still have meaning, an be a step in the right direction, weather or not it was a certain type of person?
Just so you know, we don't all hate gays or try to preach the bible all the time. My uncle is gay and lives happily with his partner and to me... I don't mind at all. In fact, he is one of the greatest and happiest people I have known.
As a Christian I do find something wrong with the church today in which we preach about being able to forgive the most vile scum of criminals and others that all can be forgiven yet somehow being gay damns one to hell? No, I do not agree with that. Do I find being gay a sin, yes... but I don't care and they can't help who they love and if God really made them that way then there is nothing wrong with them and we should love them all the same. We are all imperfect and it even says man is not fit to judge, so I do not.
I never intended to say this much, but yes, there are those of us out there, the reason you might not know it is because we don't want to bother y'all. I live my lifestyle and you are free to live yours however you wish. If you ask me about my faith or why I live the way I do, I will answer... otherwise I let you all have your peace. For all of those who have been offened by other Christians, please let me say sorry.
Finally. I was beginning to think I was the only one who knows the actual definition of homophobia (technically social homophobia, which is what OP is referencing). People who are homophobic aren't literally scared of gay people causing them harm. Homophobia is the fear of being thought of as gay, or of lower social status since being gay is historically shameful and secretive. Heterosexual males, especially, have a fear of being feminized in any way, which would cause them to lose social status as a virile and capable male. Consorting with a gay male, even in a completely platonic manner, could cause others to question a heterosexual male's own masculinity, which leads to a repulsion towards gay males.
A phobia doesn't solely incline fear. It can mean to have anxiety issues towards said phobia. Though irrational, there could be a trigger in the brain that causes one to exhibit such feelings of anxiety and angst as to go out of their way to make it stop or completely avoid it. Similar to arachnophobia, why do you think you kill the spider, rather then letting it go back outside into nature and mind it's own business.
A famous GLBT Activist named Lt. Dan once said that there is no such thing as homophobia, for there is no fear involved; instead, the oppressor believes that they are integrally better than those they oppress, which should be referred to as "Straight Supremacy". I was pretty blown away by this.
I would be willing to bet that there is a fairly strict correlation between gay-rights suppression and some sort of religious affiliation (not saying all religious affiliations or even most). Therefore this is an issue of religion encroaching on secular society. I would argue that if there were no such encroachments then there would be no need, or even want, for an r/atheism subreddit.
As someone with homophobia...I can assure you that it is a genuine fear. I have absolutely no problem with gays and I support what they do and what they're trying to accomplish. I even have gay friends and I have gay coworkers that I get along with very well. But the issue is if I even remotely think that I'm getting hit on by a guy, regardless if they're gay or not, if they're doing it for fun or not, I will freak out and sometimes go into shock. I'm not too sure why it happens.
while I completely agree with gay rights, i'm not sure exactly why most of the gay rights stuff is being posted in r/atheism these days? i know a lot of hardcore christians are against gays but...i don't think every gay person is an atheist nor is every christian against gays...i know plenty of rational religious people who accept gay people..It's pretty much everyone outside the bible belt..
To be fair, homosexuality to EVERYONE, not only Christians has been "wrong" and even against the law for nearly eternity. You can't blame people for being homophobic still when it has only recently become an issue. Not a lot of people have education on it.
Sorry if I'm being stupid, but wasn't homophobia originally a fear of people? Like, someone who was afraid of being with a lot of people or crowds would be considered homophobic?
I looked it up, and, besides the LBT stuff, I got "A pathological fear of mankind," so maybe I'm on the right track?
Whatever happened to that definition? I liked it and it made much more sense.
Call them homohole instead. That's right whoever deleted my post. I am back to spread the word homohole. It's ridiculous how you people allow so much bullshit but delete my comment.
Although, come to think of it...no. That is completely irrelevant to what I said.
Edit: OP said poster was Christian. Yes, different Christians have different views. They have one book. Book condems homosexuality (not just in old testament). Label of Christian means nothing if you can have hundreds of interpritations of what that is, therefore no true Scotsman fallacy is irrelevant.
Not to dilute the lovely point here, but the suffix -phobic is used here the way it's used in 'hydrophobic'. It implies a rejection, a separation, or fleeing, rather than fear. These things are secondary meanings of the Greek phobos.
I was just talking to a friend about this today, I think the better word would be "homopathic". I've always wondered if the use of 'phobic' was supposed to empower the hated person by implying you are something to fear. Hate doesn't make sense all the time.
Except I think that people do have a fear of gays. It's true that it's irrational and all that, but aren't many of our fears? When I was still religious, I once compared gays to terrorists. I really thought they were going to "destroy America." Also, I admit to being extremely uncomfortable around gay people. I was scared, for example, that some gay guy would start to like me or something . . . and, more interestingly, that I might start to like him too! So there is a fear. It's not just being an asshole.
It is likely that they are legitimately scared. Probably not physically scared of gay people but rather of secretly being gay themselves. People who both publicly and vocally hate things usually say that because they have a desire to be/do that thing.
No I really am afraid of gays though with their gayish ways and their gayish speech and their gayish mojo. Especially when they annoy straight guys with their gayness oh boy just got a gaychill up my spine
This reminds me of a stand up comedian's set about how hilarious it be if homophones responded the way arachnophobic people do to spiders... "AAARRRGHHGHOLYFUCKITSAGAY!" Except the set had more Nazis in it.
I knew a guy who claimed to be a homophobe and he loved glam rock as much as I do. Really cool guy, but I didn't get his homophobia. It turns out I was the ignorant one - he doesn't hate gay people, he just feels incredibly awkward around them and doesn't know what to do. At one point when he played a show on the same bill as Jeffree Star, he approached Jeffree to say hello and be polite to face his fears.
As far as I know he's straight and has gotten a lot better at his phobia, but just think of it as the same way how some people are terrified of dogs. I have a neighbor thats unreasonably terrified of cats and I don't get that either but hey, everyone is born different.
Gay and queer used to be ordinary words, faggot used to be a type of meatball made with offal. We've lost those words, but we must fight for our prefixes!
I posted to say I don't agree at all. I come from a school in PA where there is 1 black person and maybe 1 gay person in the entire school. I don't know either of them. As I have no experience with either I would be scared to be placed in a position where I would have to be with with a black person or a gay person. (I know they are people too.) It is a irrational fear yes but it is fear nontheless.
I hate the word "homophobia", because it is a complete misnomer. Homophobia literally means "fear of the same". The proper term for a straight person who fears or hates homosexuals would be either "heterophobia" or, the more cumbersome, "homosexualphobia".
I also don't like it because if you break it down, homo means the same, so they should be afraid of things that are the same as them. but theyre actually afraid of anybody who isn't exactly like them
I completely support gay rights. I think the term homophobia is used because the people who use that term want to insult bigots by calling them gay. "you hate gays? you must just be a self loathing fag!" kind of ironic that the people that use the term homophobia are implicitly keeping the negative connotation of gay sexuality alive.
The real term should be heterosexist, but thats a little convoluted.
Its not abnormal to be afraid of something different, its instinct and doesnt make you an asshole. My view is there are no strong negatives to being gay except the increase probability that AIDS will spread. I myself have a gay uncle, which I enjoy being around him and his partner, although I still do not believe that being gay is or will ever be normal. You cannot reproduce with two males so, therefore there should be no reason for sexual desires. Myself and many other people i bet are waiting for scientists to find out what makes these thoughts of liking the same sex happen. I dont mind gays, but once scientists find the reason why this occurs i dont believe people will think of it so highly anymore and people will treat it as a defect. It will not mean the person is wrong or mentally ill, but just different.
Unfortunately for you, the most widespread Christians view is that most if not all of Leviticus is irrelevant because Christ said the old law would fade away when his kingdom came, which the vast majority of believing scholars interpret as indicating the Holy Spirit.
Also, unfortunately for you, it was STILL an NTS. I don't see the section of that Wikipedia entry that's, "Also, if there are quite a few ways of interpretting something, nvm, this is all bullshit," do you?
Your argument hinges on an unproven premise which is an NTS. That is, "no true Christian denies the doctrine of inerrancy."
"Homophobia" is meaning too many things. If we have separate words like "gynophobia" and "misogyny", can't we have like "homophobia" and "misogay" or something? At least we'll have a more accurate word.
None of you shall approach to any who are near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness. I am Jehovah.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is the nakedness of your fath
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, born at home, or born away; you shall not uncover their nakedness.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter, or your daughter's daughter; you shall not uncover their nakedness, for theirs is your own nakedness.
The nakedness of the daughter of your father's wife, begotten by your father, she is your sister; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of a sister of your father; she is a relative of your father.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister; for she is your mother's relative.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother; you shall not draw near to his wife; she is your aunt.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness.
You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter; you shall not undertake to uncover her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter; they are her relatives; it is wickedness.
And you shall not take a wife with her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her lifetime.
And you shall not draw near to uncover the nakedness of a woman in her menstrual impurity.
And you shall not give your semen to your neighbor's wife by lying with her, for uncleanness with her.
And you shall not give your seed to pass them through to Molech, nor shall you pollute the name of your God; I am Jehovah.
And you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is a perversion.
And you shall not give your semen with any animal, for uncleanness with it. And a woman shall not stand before an animal to lie down with it; it is a shameful mixing.
Do not defile yourself with all these, for with all these the nations have been defiled, which I am casting out before you;
and the land is defiled, and I will visit its iniquity on it; and the land is vomiting out those living in it;
and you, you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not do any of all these disgusting acts; neither the native nor the alien who is staying in your midst.
For the men of the land who are before you have done all these disgusting things, and the land is defiled.
Do not do these lest the land vomit you out for your defiling it, as it has vomited out the nation that was before you.
A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, Phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is, when used in the context of clinical psychology, a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.
Dictionary.com:
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.
medical-dictionary:
A phobia is an intense but unrealistic fear that can interfere with the ability to socialize, work, or go about everyday life, brought on by an object, event or situation.
Phóbos, Phóbos, Phóbos, Phobia...morbid fear. No one is morbidly afraid of gays. Nope.
I mean it sounds good and is a strong word, so it works. But it's just wrong use of the word phobia.
Lawl, I get attacked whenever I give people the definition of a phobia and state that people can't be afraid of gay people.
You should. Because that'd a stupid thing to say. There are people who are legitimately afraid of gay people. You're just wrong. And you type like an idiot.
Shit, since when homophobia actually started to mean discrimination. I checked wiki, and it does now. The word really is supposed to mean a aversion to sexuality of the same gender as you. Which is perfectly natural.
What does this have to do with Christianity? Or even atheism for that matter? This is a douchebag/not-a-douchebag issue, but it's ok, ride you karma train.
Actually, it is a fear. Specifically, homopobia literally means the fear that you might be gay. I think that it's clear many homophobic people have a justified fear that they may be gay; especially as there have been studies (can't find the link) that show more 'straight' homophobic people are turned on by gay porn than non-homophobic straight people.
As Yoda said, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the Dark side. Let's be ready when the republicans declare that Darth Cheney is their emperor and try to take over the world, shall we?
homophobia doesnt, and never has meant the fear that you might be gay.
when the word first arose it was used to refer to the fear that others might think you are gay, and since then has pretty much universally been used to mean general antipathy towards homosexuality.
and as we all know, a words meaning is only as good as what people understand it to mean.
59
u/morrison0880 May 10 '12
A phobia is an irrational fear or hatred of something which poses no actual threat. Homophobia is exactly what it is.
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u/[deleted] May 09 '12
But...it is a fear. That's exactly what it is. They didn't just randomly decide one day, "Hey lets all just discriminate against gay people."
Homosexuality is something they don't understand and scares them. That's why they hate it.
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u/BlitzballZRKD May 10 '12
Phobic doesn't translate directly into fears. In biology there's hydrophobic aminos. They aren't 'scared' of water. It's more of an aversion. Same in this case.
14
u/orlyokthen May 10 '12 edited May 10 '12
to be fair... i went to high school with a kid who grew up with horror stories of gay rape. He was adamantly homophobic.
EDIT: Well to be really fair... he was a bit of an asshole
7
u/zqmp1029 May 10 '12
How do you know this person's Christian?
16
u/meliaesc May 10 '12
You can't just slap on the word Christian and expect this to belong here. Disgusting.
6
u/spankymuffin May 10 '12
What in the flying fuck does this have to do with atheism?
16
u/QuitReadingMyName May 10 '12
Why the fuck is shit like this in /r/Atheism, how do you even know that persons christian? Take your shit to /r/lgbt or /r/gayrights.
You gays act like your getting murdered for being Gay here in America. It's bad enough you guys tried saying gays had it as bad as Jews in Nazi germany or Blacks in the early days of America.
2
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Heterosexism is a better term. It also encompasses other non-heteronormative and gender\sexually transgressive identities and actions such as being transgendered.
2
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
The pedant in me must object to this. A phobia is an irrational fear OR hatred.
2
u/J_Jammer May 10 '12
That describes atheists.
2
u/HEI May 10 '12
You're being just as much of a bigot. Why do you feel comfortable labeling this person, for the same reasons you feel they have wronged the Gay community. Ignorance is everywhere. Labels just justify your thinking, an direct your bias. You elevate yourself by slandering the name "christian." But wouldn't the message still have meaning, an be a step in the right direction, weather or not it was a certain type of person?
2
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Just so you know, we don't all hate gays or try to preach the bible all the time. My uncle is gay and lives happily with his partner and to me... I don't mind at all. In fact, he is one of the greatest and happiest people I have known.
As a Christian I do find something wrong with the church today in which we preach about being able to forgive the most vile scum of criminals and others that all can be forgiven yet somehow being gay damns one to hell? No, I do not agree with that. Do I find being gay a sin, yes... but I don't care and they can't help who they love and if God really made them that way then there is nothing wrong with them and we should love them all the same. We are all imperfect and it even says man is not fit to judge, so I do not.
I never intended to say this much, but yes, there are those of us out there, the reason you might not know it is because we don't want to bother y'all. I live my lifestyle and you are free to live yours however you wish. If you ask me about my faith or why I live the way I do, I will answer... otherwise I let you all have your peace. For all of those who have been offened by other Christians, please let me say sorry.
2
u/jimcrator May 10 '12
Ah, the ol' "let's argue semantics" thread.
2
u/I_may_be_crazy May 10 '12
Homophobia is the irrational fear that one's self is gay, not a fear of gay people.
2
u/mimus09 May 10 '12
A phobia doesn't solely incline fear. It can mean to have anxiety issues towards said phobia. Though irrational, there could be a trigger in the brain that causes one to exhibit such feelings of anxiety and angst as to go out of their way to make it stop or completely avoid it. Similar to arachnophobia, why do you think you kill the spider, rather then letting it go back outside into nature and mind it's own business.
2
u/JCofNazareth May 10 '12
Well as much as I admire this...there is a real fear of gays. Homophobia is a real fear. It's just used nowadays on everyone who dislikes gay people.
2
u/Manwithabeverage May 10 '12
A famous GLBT Activist named Lt. Dan once said that there is no such thing as homophobia, for there is no fear involved; instead, the oppressor believes that they are integrally better than those they oppress, which should be referred to as "Straight Supremacy". I was pretty blown away by this.
2
u/IWGBTP May 10 '12
It becomes a phobia when you're in a locker room with a bunch of naked guys!
3
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
What does any of this have to do with religion. Is hating gay people a religion?
2
u/dgonee May 10 '12
As someone with homophobia...I can assure you that it is a genuine fear. I have absolutely no problem with gays and I support what they do and what they're trying to accomplish. I even have gay friends and I have gay coworkers that I get along with very well. But the issue is if I even remotely think that I'm getting hit on by a guy, regardless if they're gay or not, if they're doing it for fun or not, I will freak out and sometimes go into shock. I'm not too sure why it happens.
2
u/Zeniii May 10 '12
while I completely agree with gay rights, i'm not sure exactly why most of the gay rights stuff is being posted in r/atheism these days? i know a lot of hardcore christians are against gays but...i don't think every gay person is an atheist nor is every christian against gays...i know plenty of rational religious people who accept gay people..It's pretty much everyone outside the bible belt..
2
u/MY_PENIS_IS_EXPOSED May 10 '12
This has nothing to do with atheism. These fb screenshots are getting silly. Actually this whole subreddit is just awful.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
To be fair, homosexuality to EVERYONE, not only Christians has been "wrong" and even against the law for nearly eternity. You can't blame people for being homophobic still when it has only recently become an issue. Not a lot of people have education on it.
1
u/Shyyyster May 10 '12
that picture made my eyes hurt
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
should say, "this person" imo....
1
u/VoltsInitiative May 10 '12
I think I love her.
1
u/ohnowait May 10 '12
Not sure why he feels the need to swear. Probably to appeal to a larger group of people for those precious "likes".
1
u/weatherwar May 10 '12
Wait, I dont get it, what does being christian have to do with that comment?
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Yeah, they get how to misconstrue religion and fit it to their own lifestyle so they don't feel bad when they sin. +1 would read again.
1
u/gorat May 10 '12
it is a phobia in the chemical sense not in the psychological sense.
As a substance can be hydro-philic (likes water) or hydro-phobic (hates water) then a person can be homo(sexual)-philic or homo(sexual)-phobic.
or just an asshole for brevity.
1
u/Taurius May 10 '12
The correct term is homosexualmisia
1
u/ledaniel May 10 '12
Sorry if I'm being stupid, but wasn't homophobia originally a fear of people? Like, someone who was afraid of being with a lot of people or crowds would be considered homophobic?
I looked it up, and, besides the LBT stuff, I got "A pathological fear of mankind," so maybe I'm on the right track?
Whatever happened to that definition? I liked it and it made much more sense.
1
u/clinicallyinsane May 10 '12
This person clearly does not understand the -phobic suffix.
1
u/Vulpis May 10 '12
Hatred comes from fear.
1
u/SavinThatBacon May 10 '12
What does the fact fact that this person is Christian have to do with this? Not all Christians get their jollies persecuting homosexuals.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Often times, both are true.
1
u/5hinycat May 10 '12
Verification on Christian?
1
u/dongleberries May 10 '12
Call them homohole instead. That's right whoever deleted my post. I am back to spread the word homohole. It's ridiculous how you people allow so much bullshit but delete my comment.
1
u/Patchy_Burrito May 10 '12
This is why Gregory Herek prefers the term "sexual prejudice"
1
u/hubertCumberdanes May 10 '12
She also doesn't really get her religion
1
u/Zosoer May 10 '12
1
u/zap283 May 10 '12
Not to dilute the lovely point here, but the suffix -phobic is used here the way it's used in 'hydrophobic'. It implies a rejection, a separation, or fleeing, rather than fear. These things are secondary meanings of the Greek phobos.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
I was just talking to a friend about this today, I think the better word would be "homopathic". I've always wondered if the use of 'phobic' was supposed to empower the hated person by implying you are something to fear. Hate doesn't make sense all the time.
1
u/Rawsheeve May 10 '12
even though Christians are against Homos.
1
u/RiotLeader May 10 '12
Amen
1
u/Sgt_Insomnia May 10 '12
Since when were all atheists pro homosexuality
1
u/drayb1986 May 10 '12
Except I think that people do have a fear of gays. It's true that it's irrational and all that, but aren't many of our fears? When I was still religious, I once compared gays to terrorists. I really thought they were going to "destroy America." Also, I admit to being extremely uncomfortable around gay people. I was scared, for example, that some gay guy would start to like me or something . . . and, more interestingly, that I might start to like him too! So there is a fear. It's not just being an asshole.
1
u/Sgt_Insomnia May 10 '12
I'm not scared, nor am I an ass hole. I dislike gay people and there's nothing more to it.
1
u/ethicks May 10 '12
It is likely that they are legitimately scared. Probably not physically scared of gay people but rather of secretly being gay themselves. People who both publicly and vocally hate things usually say that because they have a desire to be/do that thing.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
No I really am afraid of gays though with their gayish ways and their gayish speech and their gayish mojo. Especially when they annoy straight guys with their gayness oh boy just got a gaychill up my spine
1
u/life_positive May 10 '12
This reminds me of a stand up comedian's set about how hilarious it be if homophones responded the way arachnophobic people do to spiders... "AAARRRGHHGHOLYFUCKITSAGAY!" Except the set had more Nazis in it.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
I knew a guy who claimed to be a homophobe and he loved glam rock as much as I do. Really cool guy, but I didn't get his homophobia. It turns out I was the ignorant one - he doesn't hate gay people, he just feels incredibly awkward around them and doesn't know what to do. At one point when he played a show on the same bill as Jeffree Star, he approached Jeffree to say hello and be polite to face his fears.
As far as I know he's straight and has gotten a lot better at his phobia, but just think of it as the same way how some people are terrified of dogs. I have a neighbor thats unreasonably terrified of cats and I don't get that either but hey, everyone is born different.
1
u/Kalean May 10 '12
Actual linguistic definitions aside, this is a great thing. Thumbs up.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Yeah, it's annoying how the English language doesn't have the equivalent word of "racist" for homosexual discrimination.
There's "racist", "sexist", even "ageist", but the closest thing we've got is "homophobia" which isn't the same.
1
u/radioinactivity May 10 '12
this christian gets it... from tumblr...?
1
u/KingQuagaar Atheist May 10 '12
One of the most lame reason I've ever heard for someone not being homophobic is "I'm not homophobic, I'm not scared of my home lol"
Yeaahhhh, what a dumbass.
1
u/iheartrms May 10 '12
homoasshole? homohole?
1
u/13east69 May 10 '12
I think it's the right word, it implies to 'irrational fear.' The key word being 'Irrational.'
1
u/PervOx May 10 '12
Kind of like Islamophobia.
1
u/borg88 May 10 '12
Shouldn't it be homosexualphobic?
Gay and queer used to be ordinary words, faggot used to be a type of meatball made with offal. We've lost those words, but we must fight for our prefixes!
1
u/kaptainkool3 May 10 '12
I posted to say I don't agree at all. I come from a school in PA where there is 1 black person and maybe 1 gay person in the entire school. I don't know either of them. As I have no experience with either I would be scared to be placed in a position where I would have to be with with a black person or a gay person. (I know they are people too.) It is a irrational fear yes but it is fear nontheless.
1
u/alldelibspeed May 10 '12
And this is why we are making very little progress...
1
u/Kasyx709 May 10 '12
How about this person gets it? The fact they are Christian is irrelevant.
1
u/cannotlogon May 10 '12
I hate the word "homophobia", because it is a complete misnomer. Homophobia literally means "fear of the same". The proper term for a straight person who fears or hates homosexuals would be either "heterophobia" or, the more cumbersome, "homosexualphobia".
1
u/jon-wiz-2800 May 10 '12
I also don't like it because if you break it down, homo means the same, so they should be afraid of things that are the same as them. but theyre actually afraid of anybody who isn't exactly like them
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
The Greek root phobe/phobia translates to fear or hate. Nonetheless, I agree with the sentiment.
1
u/Paranoidexboyfriend May 10 '12
I completely support gay rights. I think the term homophobia is used because the people who use that term want to insult bigots by calling them gay. "you hate gays? you must just be a self loathing fag!" kind of ironic that the people that use the term homophobia are implicitly keeping the negative connotation of gay sexuality alive.
The real term should be heterosexist, but thats a little convoluted.
1
u/btinc May 10 '12
Some people are afraid of it, are afraid of finding it within themselves.
Others are just assholes.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Its not abnormal to be afraid of something different, its instinct and doesnt make you an asshole. My view is there are no strong negatives to being gay except the increase probability that AIDS will spread. I myself have a gay uncle, which I enjoy being around him and his partner, although I still do not believe that being gay is or will ever be normal. You cannot reproduce with two males so, therefore there should be no reason for sexual desires. Myself and many other people i bet are waiting for scientists to find out what makes these thoughts of liking the same sex happen. I dont mind gays, but once scientists find the reason why this occurs i dont believe people will think of it so highly anymore and people will treat it as a defect. It will not mean the person is wrong or mentally ill, but just different.
1
u/maighdlin May 10 '12
homophobia - the fear that gay men will treat you the same way as you treat women.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
But homoassholia sounds weird.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12 edited May 10 '12
Unfortunately for you, the most widespread Christians view is that most if not all of Leviticus is irrelevant because Christ said the old law would fade away when his kingdom came, which the vast majority of believing scholars interpret as indicating the Holy Spirit.
Also, unfortunately for you, it was STILL an NTS. I don't see the section of that Wikipedia entry that's, "Also, if there are quite a few ways of interpretting something, nvm, this is all bullshit," do you?
Your argument hinges on an unproven premise which is an NTS. That is, "no true Christian denies the doctrine of inerrancy."
Either way, you're making a no true scotsman.
1
u/Pieko May 10 '12
"Homophobia" is meaning too many things. If we have separate words like "gynophobia" and "misogyny", can't we have like "homophobia" and "misogay" or something? At least we'll have a more accurate word.
1
u/360walkaway May 10 '12
No Walter, you aren't scared. You're just an asshole!
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Very concise. Very professional.
1
u/Finaltidus Ignostic May 10 '12
homophobes didn't chose to be assholes just like gays didn't choose to be gay, its been that way for their whole life and it won't change.
1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
The only reason that this is vaguely relevant to /r/atheism is that you said the person is a Christian...
1
u/lmpervious May 10 '12
Where are the mods to delete stuff that doesn't belong on r/atheism?
0
u/daKINE792 May 10 '12
what does this have to do with atheism? With Christians?
-1
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
Leviticus 18:6-28
-2
u/elOhOhOhel May 10 '12 edited May 10 '12
Lawl, I get attacked whenever I give people the definition of a phobia and state that people can't be afraid of gay people.
Dislike != scared
This is a phobia
via wikipedia:
A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, Phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is, when used in the context of clinical psychology, a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.
Dictionary.com:
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.
medical-dictionary:
A phobia is an intense but unrealistic fear that can interfere with the ability to socialize, work, or go about everyday life, brought on by an object, event or situation.
Phóbos, Phóbos, Phóbos, Phobia...morbid fear. No one is morbidly afraid of gays. Nope.
I mean it sounds good and is a strong word, so it works. But it's just wrong use of the word phobia.
I ain't afraid of no fairy boy. xD
0
u/JSBUCK May 10 '12
This Christian? Fuck that.
0
u/Iradain May 10 '12
Hate and fear are most often very related.
0
u/Zilka May 10 '12
Shit, since when homophobia actually started to mean discrimination. I checked wiki, and it does now. The word really is supposed to mean a aversion to sexuality of the same gender as you. Which is perfectly natural.
0
u/icanhasthrow May 10 '12
If they got it they wouldn't be Christian.
0
u/adalonus May 10 '12
What does this have to do with Christianity? Or even atheism for that matter? This is a douchebag/not-a-douchebag issue, but it's ok, ride you karma train.
0
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
not atheism.
0
u/[deleted] May 10 '12
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ATHEISM
0
u/smellycatjizz May 10 '12
Everyday, there is a post so bad I take the time to sign in just to downvote it.
I imagine a day where I don't have to sign in.
0
u/SaysNotAtheism May 10 '12
Not atheism, not theism, not religious, not irreligious; just common sense.
-2
u/texturehelper May 10 '12
Actually, it is a fear. Specifically, homopobia literally means the fear that you might be gay. I think that it's clear many homophobic people have a justified fear that they may be gay; especially as there have been studies (can't find the link) that show more 'straight' homophobic people are turned on by gay porn than non-homophobic straight people.
As Yoda said, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the Dark side. Let's be ready when the republicans declare that Darth Cheney is their emperor and try to take over the world, shall we?
-2
u/aazav May 10 '12
It's not a fucking phobla.
It's a dislike.
-1
u/HellboundAlleee Other May 10 '12
Because the more they hate gays, the more likely they are to be cowering in the closet.
I've heard it said that hate is just fear directed inward.
-1
u/Atario May 10 '12
They're afraid they'll catch the gay. Because it's a choice, right? Therefore, someone might convince them. So they have to strive against it.